A question for extreme Leftists.

a reply to: Bluntone22

Nah. It is republicans who are waging the war against women since we don't believe government should be paying for condoms or that is morally reprehensible to abort a baby. [sarcasm off]

Here is nothing in Islam that dictates women MUST be covered, it's simply male dominance in the environment. In fact if you view it from this position, women are covered as to not distract the men from the influence and the faith of their religion
So really it's admitting men's weakness of dedication as their too easily distracted
And if you can point out a woman that has never used her femininity or sexuality to achieve their goals or desires then you truly live in a utopia, the burka has a purpose even though we think it oppressive

I'm sure there's 1000's of women in catholic marriages that want out
Same as there's 1000's of women whom convert to Islam
a reply to: Edumakated

a reply to: Xaphan

I don't support their religion. I support their right to practice it without impediment though. That is a difference that many anti-muslim people can't seem to get their heads around.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
That's news to me, thanks for telling me I'm doing it wrong.

Now I know who to hate.

Do you need a hand oppressing them? I did not have my morning coffee and I am feeling a bit cranky.

Yes please, I've never really oppressed anyone and wouldn't want to fail in my first attempt.

I've heard spitting at people is one of the correct ways of dealing with heathen deviants.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
The question was, how can extreme leftists support an ideology that has repeatedly repressed women and gays?

That was not the question AT ALL. The question was "Why do you defend Muslims". I don't defend OR support any religious ideology. But I defend and support the rights of all citizens, regardless of their participation in religion.

Defending a PERSON is not the same as supporting an IDEOLOGY.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
I've heard spitting at people is one of the correct ways of dealing with heathen deviants.

Weak.

I typically go right for enslavement or death. You would make a bad Muslim extremist.

Do not join ISIS, do not collect $200.

originally posted by: Xaphan

originally posted by: uncommitted
Why do you point out you are not racist? Following Islam is no more about the colour of your skin/your nationality than being a Christian is.

You're absolutely right. The religion has nothing to do with the ethnicity of the people who follow it. I just wanted to clarify that because some people like to use strawman arguments and accuse somebody of being racist if they challenge the Islamic faith. I was just ripping up the race card before anybody could use it.

originally posted by: uncommitted
Personally I would defend non extremists of any religion or non religion - why wouldn't you?

Even if those non-extremists still have an aversion to homosexuals and women's rights? Why should leftists support them? That contradicts our values.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is this: Some Liberals (not all, but some) have a peculiar habit of bashing Western majority religions like Christianity and Catholicism, but defend minority religions for whatever reason.

There are people of all creeds and non creeds who have an aversion to homosexuals and women's rights, I don't agree with any of them but as long as they keep their aversions to themselves I really couldn't care less. That's not to say I'd want to get stuck in an elevator with them, but I don't see it as my place to deny them that right as long as they don't act upon it. If they do then I would consider extremist, or fundamental in their view.

a reply to: Xaphan

It's not oppression we are defending it's the stereotyping (as you did in your OP) and persecution of we are vocal about. You as a leftist should understand that and refrain from doing it yourself. There are plenty of moderate and liberal Muslims all over the world and plenty of Conservative Muslims that strictly adhere to Islam, that keep their beliefs to themselves.

a reply to: Xaphan

"That being said, I have a question for the more extreme edgy Leftists. Why do you defend Muslims?"

That's an outstanding question and the answer is relatively simple, though not altogether obvious. The reason is that "Extreme Leftists", as you call them, have long had a priority list of hatreds and at the very top of that list is Christians, or anything related to Christianity. (you'll know that's true by the number of replies to the effect: "stop whining about Christians being persecuted" although thats an entirely different topic).

Leftists, by their very nature hate all religions or religious belief systems, but even before they hated "religions" they hated Christianity. So, we had Marx or Lenin referring to religion as opiate for the masses. As an example of course, the Russian communists closed all the religious institutions and stripped the Russian Orthodox church of all its properties and forced religion to go underground. Mao Tse Tung did the same thing. The basic reason they hated religion was simple......they don't want any competition. If a culture is "God Centric", it can't be "State Centric" and for extreme leftists, the State IS God. Then of course there's the whole God given inallienable rights thing which the Leftists have to exterminate because in their minds, the State is the only author of rights.

So.....the Leftists protect the Muslims as the ultimate tool to cancel out Christianity. Its the logical "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" type thinking. That's why for example, the MSM goes to great lengths to censor stories about Christians being slaughtered at the hands of ISIS. Put bluntly, the Leftists see the Muslims as effective pawns to do the dirty work for them in killing and eradicating the Christians.

Of course, there's a serious fly in the ointment here with the Leftists calculus. I don't know how they're going to react when the radical Islamismists start throwing homosexuals off roof tops. Guess they'll cross that bridge when they get there.....or.....they'll use the MSM to censor those stories as well.

originally posted by: Xaphan

Why do you defend Muslims? As a moderate Leftist, I thought we were supposed to support things like women's rights and gay rights. Defending Muslims would actually contradict these values, wouldn't it? Muslims have an aversion to homosexuality.

Afghanistan is Muslim??

www.bbc.co.uk...

Aversion to homosexuality??

a reply to: TonyS

Man do i love ats, this morning ive just learned that i hate gays,'christians and i support isis.

Thanks for the education lesson boy do i feel better now.

originally posted by: Xaphan
Before anybody takes offense to the title and accuses me of being a Conservative, I'm not. I consider myself a moderate Leftist. That being said, I have a question for the more extreme edgy Leftists. Why do you defend Muslims? As a moderate Leftist, I thought we were supposed to support things like women's rights and gay rights. Defending Muslims would actually contradict these values, wouldn't it? Muslims have an aversion to homosexuality and women's rights. I'm by no means a racist person at all. I just don't think their religion is compatible with modern Western values. I'd be glad to hear other opinions on this if anybody else wants to chime in.

Also, here's a good debate about this.

You do sound racist. I support the rights of all religions. The rights of minorities. Christians have an aversion to homosexuality and women's rights, to some extent, yet I support the right of Christians to worship. Why wouldn't I support Muslims? I don;t find this to be 'edgy' I find it to be human.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

"I don't support their religion. I support their right to practice it without impediment though. That is a difference that many anti-muslim people can't seem to get their heads around."

That's also a difference that many anti-Christian don't accept as well.

Like most every avenue in life, it's a two-way traffic jam that never lets up

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: Xaphan

"That being said, I have a question for the more extreme edgy Leftists. Why do you defend Muslims?"

That's an outstanding question and the answer is relatively simple, though not altogether obvious. The reason is that "Extreme Leftists", as you call them, have long had a priority list of hatreds and at the very top of that list is Christians, or anything related to Christianity. (you'll know that's true by the number of replies to the effect: "stop whining about Christians being persecuted" although thats an entirely different topic).

Leftists, by their very nature hate all religions or religious belief systems, but even before they hated "religions" they hated Christianity. So, we had Marx or Lenin referring to religion as opiate for the masses. As an example of course, the Russian communists closed all the religious institutions and stripped the Russian Orthodox church of all its properties and forced religion to go underground. Mao Tse Tung did the same thing. The basic reason they hated religion was simple......they don't want any competition. If a culture is "God Centric", it can't be "State Centric" and for extreme leftists, the State IS God. Then of course there's the whole God given inallienable rights thing which the Leftists have to exterminate because in their minds, the State is the only author of rights.

That was just sooo wrong. Not true.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
Probably for the same reason women supported bill Clinton during the Lewinsky fiasco and all his other womanizer past.
They didn't turn on hillary for standing by her man either. Feminists still support her because she is a democrat.
For some reason feminist and gays can ignore Islam's contempt for them.
I can't figure it out either.

I don't support Hillary for President. I found it a non-issue that Bill had an affair and if his wife decided to stand by him, that is her decision. You have a strange view of feminism.

a reply to: redoubt

I don't think that is as true as you may think. It's not true for me. I don't support the Christian religion, but I support their right to practice it without impediment just like with the Muslim religion.

You won't get a proper answer to what you are asking. I am a lifelong labour vote and I am probably like you middle left. I have had similar arguments in the UK. How on the one hand can everyone shout and scream about the austerity measures, i.e. the tax credits being cut, the NHS being cut, school places in short supply, frontline services like the Police being cut, armed forces being cut, severe housing shortages so people living in poverty and homeless, thousands having to use food banks, people not even being paid the national living wage and then on the other hand ask for thousands of people to be let in mainly from muslim countries so therefore pushing wages down further, making more of an housing shortage, putting more stress on NHS/schools and also wanting people here whose religion means that they don't assimilate well with western culture. A perfect example of this is on a separate thread today where a heavily pregnant muslim girl who is only 14 has disappeared because she wanted to be with her husband. Some are saying maybe her culture should be taken into account even though our laws say 16. The Country she is in have put her in a asylum centre with her husband and the indigenous people aren't very happy, which shows some of the problems and like you say muslim culture also sees women as submissive etc. I agree with you and it doesn't make sense but you won't get any answers. a reply to: Xaphan

originally posted by: anxiouswens
You won't get a proper answer to what you are asking.

He's gotten at least 5 answers right here in this thread.

originally posted by: the owlbear
Islam is a religion with a billion adherents.
To make blanket statements about a billion people is foolish.

Put it better than I could.

I don't agree with the religion, however I appose blanket statements and premade judgements about groups of people (even though, as a human I'm guilty of doing both from time to time - despite trying my best not to be). With the current debates over ISIS sneaking in as refugees, my argument has been getting worried about it plays into ISIS's hands through fear and divide and radicalise techniques which risk creating huge rifts in Europe at the present time due to recent events.

If a person is guilty of doing what the OP states, then they should rightly be taken to task, regardless of their religious beliefs (or lack of).

However if you're referring to the few in the extreme left who act and claim as if a Muslim can never do any wrong, I'm as baffled as you are as it makes no sense to me despite being extreme left myself - they're an embarrassment to the movement as they're complete hypocrites.

a reply to: Xaphan

If you're an American and you decide to kick everyone out of your country who doesn't support gay people and women's rights then you're going to shed 40% of your population or so.

Not saying you're suggesting this but if Islam isn't compatible with Western society then nor are those people.

Side note: I'm not sure Sam Harris precisely agrees with that statement either. Harris may say 'Islam is the motherlode of bad ideas' but equally states that many Islamic people don't follow their faith to the letter. Harris would claim their morality comes from themselves.

I believe Harris's argument is that moderate religious people enable pockets of extremists and Islam requires a reform. He rejects the idea that all violence in the Middle East is political and proposes it is religiously driven. Harris claims Western Christianity isn't taken seriously even by Christians. The argument doesn't appear to be 'you should not defend Muslims.'