Can capitalism exist without slavery?

well can it?

Ok, so, This line of thinking is based upon an assumption.

In order for me to make money I have to pay you less than the actual value of your labor or I will break even on you as an employee rather than make more money.

So is it possible for capitalism to exist with slaves?

a reply to: onequestion

I don't think it can. Capitalism is barbaric and holding us back from having progressive and fair societies. I prefer the Scandinavian model society that is far more civilized than the Barbarian UK, not the rampant abuse of U.S and UK capitalism. To capitalism I say,

"And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand over your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead. " (Bob Dylan, "Masters of War").

a reply to: onequestion

Your logic is so broken I'm struggling to answer it.

You buy a plot of land for $1 Million to build a small apartment building.

You hire a design firm for $200 Thousand (they receive 21% overhead and PROFIT based on their proposal... standard practice)

You hire a contractor to build it for $500 Thousand (they receive 21% overhead and PROFIT based on their proposal... standard practice)

After completion you sell the apartments for a total of $2.5 Million

See how that works? You made $800 Thousand and the design firm and the contractor made money as well.

a reply to: onequestion

More and more and more profit, while we squeeze and squeeze the people at the bottom and in the middle, I just can't see how that will ever be sustainable, there will be a breaking point, something has to give!

I believe capitalism as it is now, cannot exist without slavery! because profits are all that matters, and human life isn't worth #, apparently.

#ed up mindset in this modern age if you ask me!

All forms of Government are a form of slavery. It depends on what sort of enslavement you prefer. I prefer Anarcho-Capitalism because it maximizes self-reliance and minimizes Government.

a reply to: Revolution9

Capitalism is barbaric and holding us back from having progressive and fair societies.

I would laugh, but I think you actually believe this BS.

a reply to: eluryh22

Where did the original 1 million come from?

Did the contractor do all the work himself?

I think way too many people toss the word "slave" around way too haphazardly.

a reply to: onequestion

I dont think we really need capitalism anymore. I think it was a gift and we got from it all it can give.

We should keep the best part of capitalism which is reward and let go of the worst part which is necessity.

a reply to: eluryh22

I think people think they are worth more than they actually are.

a reply to: onequestion

I think capitalism works just fine. The value of labor is subjective, that is why communism and socialism eventually fail. This is why China allows private business to compete (loose use of the term) with government run business.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: eluryh22

Where did the original 1 million come from?

Did the contractor do all the work himself?

Maybe the one million came from an individual plumber who saved and saved for a few years and came up with enough collateral to take out a loan for a smaller, $200 Thousand dollar project which gave him a $40 Thousand dollar PROFIT. Can you imagine? Can it be possible that by putting in a LOT of work and taking a SUBSTANTIAL risk he/she may have reaped a reward?

Did the contractor do all the work himself? Yes. Yes he did. The contractor signed a contract with the owner to perform a specific scope of work for a specific price. If you are going to say (in a whining voice), "But what about the people that work for the contractor?"Let me save you a few keystrokes. Contractors (like most companies) spend a great deal of effort in seeking out their staff. If you are a good employee, over time the "evil" company owners realize that you help generate profit and they will make great strides to keep you. Incidentally, guess what happens? It turns out that the employer makes money from the workers good faith efforts and the employee gets increasingly better compensation. Imagine that.

I think "worth" is earned, and most people think they're "worth" a big house, five cars, etc.
Of course, they can't build that big house, couldn't build a car given all the parts and tools, and probably couldn't even figure out how to eat if they were handed a profitable farm.

But Socialism depends on Capitalism doesn't it?

Where else will money come from to finance the government Failures programs.

And why do places like Iceland, Norway, Sweden etc. have high poverty?

originally posted by: onequestion
well can it?

Ok, so, This line of thinking is based upon an assumption.

In order for me to make money I have to pay you less than the actual value of your labor or I will break even on you as an employee rather than make more money.

So is it possible for capitalism to exist with slaves?

If you are paying them, how are they slaves? Anyway...

In order for you to make money, you must produce a good or service that people want to pay for, and it must be more payment than is required to produce the good/service. If providing that good/service requires more people than just you, you must find people who are qualified to assist you. In order to get them to work for you, you must negotiate a wage and they must accept it. No slavery involved.

a reply to: onequestion

In theory, yes. There could be outcomes where capital is gained by people who produce what is most equally rewarding for all parties involved. And I could be wrong, but I think that might be part of the ideology: by having sellers compete, all parties are more incline to receive a more fair trade.

Sadly, however, capitalism instills such a motive for profit, that it sort of breeds greed - and there is no working premise within capitalism to safe guard against that.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: eluryh22

I think people think they are worth more than they actually are.

Are you defining worth as the value of a human life or as the value of their productivity? These are two very different things and depending on which you are speaking of my answer would differ.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu
In order for you to make money, you must produce a good or service that people want to pay for, and it must be more payment than is required to produce the good/service.

That is not correct. You are making the profit by producing the thing, not in the sell of the thing.

It is your working of the produce that creates profit - not your working over of other parties.


You guys confuse profiting with profiteering.

a reply to: lordcomac

So how does a child "earn worth?" Do you not think that all children are deserving of having all of their needs met? What about someone with let's say down syndrome, are they less worthy of a nice house than someone who took over the family business?

When would you all say capitalism in america was most successful?