School district bans Halloween to accommodate ‘cultural beliefs’

originally posted by: deadeyedick

originally posted by: Annee
So, the BIG question. Does Halloween violate Separation of Church and State? Or should it?

Is it so offensive to some religious believers that they must avoid it?

And as far as who complained, be aware that there was only one (known) anonymous complaint against the Living Nativity in school.

That is the point that if we go by the definition the left uses of church and state then all semblance of religion should be removed to be completely separate from gov.. This is the tool being used to tear away at out traditions and culture. It is completely against what the founders meant by separation of church and state. If we take that definition completely literal then even religious people will have to be removed from gov. It is time for common sense.

c'mon...that's a little melodramatic....your first sentence I totally agree with....but, the "tearing away of traditions and culture"????.....there were "traditions" at one time in America, of burning witches at the stake....there was a "culture" at one time in America, of shackling people in the town square who violated god's teachings....remember the "scarlet A" sewn onto women's clothes who had fornicated outside marriage?...and coming up to todays news, there are millions of Christians in America that think Israeli Jews will start WW3 and the apocalypse. there are religious nuts that are on TV and radio, that constantly use any bad situation that happens in America as an excuse for "god's wrath"...I.E. hurricanes, tornados, gun massacres, drought, polar vortexes, climate change, etc.....I ask you where does the common sense lie with all of these people????

a reply to: jimmyx
We should be able to accept positive messages from all sects of life.

Doing away with and not accepting negative messages is a good thing.

Celebrating a holiday is a good thing.

Killing witches not so good unless they are from the west.

Let us not equate a happy holiday with events that are clearly wrong.

The left would have us believe that the muslim or atheist in school celebrating Christmas is just as demonized as a person being hung in the town square.

The logic that is being used to justify such for the left is toxic and unstable when used in the same manner in other scenarios.

originally posted by: grandmakdw

But if your standard is no religious holidays are to be celebrate or acknowledged in schools, then along with that insane and inane idea one must ban Halloween which I think is absurd .

I actually agree, sort of. And my birthday is October 30 - - so Halloween was always a big deal.

What Festival is not rooted in Paganism? The root of all Festivals is: Birth/Death, Crops, and probably War (territorial).

Halloween began with Samhain (summers end), a Harvest Festival (or was incorporated into because the date of All Saints Day). The 2 may or not be connected.

. . . it was an annual communal meeting at the end of the harvest year, a time to gather resources for the winter months and bring animals back from the pastures. Samhain is also thought to have been a time of communing with the dead, according to folklorist John Santino. (not all scholars agree)

"There was a belief that it was a day when spirits of the dead would cross over into the other world," Santino told Live Science. Such moments of transition in the year have always been thought to be special and supernatural, he added.

www.livescience.com...

------------------------------------------------

So, I have no problem with re-creating Halloween into a Fall/Harvest festival. Everyone has to eat.

They can exclude the "Day of the Dead" (also the eve).

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Squirlli

I THOUGHT America was supposed to be a melting pot of cultures and beliefs. Like a big 'ol pot luck of freedom.
That it was not only allowed but ok to openly and freely practice your religion and cultural practices here in America without fear of persecution. within reason. Not that Halloween is a religious practice (though have you seen how some people decorate?)

My
It is. But, this thread is about participation in a public (government) school.

Christmas trees are allowed because they have been accepted by society as multi-cultural.

Nativities are not allowed because they are specific to one religion.

So, then we have Halloween. Some children can not participate because of religious belief. Is this a problem that should fall under Separation of Church and State?

My daughter is a teacher trees ornaments even Santa are forbidden decorations. As are bunnies and eggs at Easter.

Her school still has Easter?

As I said none of the teachers are allowed to decorate with bunnies or eggs or anything that resembles Easter. Her school has banned anything even remotely related to Christmas or Easter be it trees or Santa or Bunnies or eggs to be displayed anywhere near those holidays,

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Squirlli

I THOUGHT America was supposed to be a melting pot of cultures and beliefs. Like a big 'ol pot luck of freedom.
That it was not only allowed but ok to openly and freely practice your religion and cultural practices here in America without fear of persecution. within reason. Not that Halloween is a religious practice (though have you seen how some people decorate?)

My
It is. But, this thread is about participation in a public (government) school.

Christmas trees are allowed because they have been accepted by society as multi-cultural.

Nativities are not allowed because they are specific to one religion.

So, then we have Halloween. Some children can not participate because of religious belief. Is this a problem that should fall under Separation of Church and State?

My daughter is a teacher trees ornaments even Santa are forbidden decorations. As are bunnies and eggs at Easter.

Her school still has Easter?

As I said none of the teachers are allowed to decorate with bunnies or eggs or anything that resembles Easter. Herschool has band anything even remotely related or Christmas or Easter be it trees or Santa or Bunnies or eggs to be displayed anywhere near those holidays,

Eggs and bunnies are fertility symbols in Paganism. Pagan loosely meaning "farmers", people of the land.

They were not the "sophisticated" dwellers of the city who were superior and believed in the true God.

IMO -- a little more Paganism would be a good thing.

Food really doesn't come wrapped in plastic or cans from a box store.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Squirlli

I THOUGHT America was supposed to be a melting pot of cultures and beliefs. Like a big 'ol pot luck of freedom.
That it was not only allowed but ok to openly and freely practice your religion and cultural practices here in America without fear of persecution. within reason. Not that Halloween is a religious practice (though have you seen how some people decorate?)

My
It is. But, this thread is about participation in a public (government) school.

Christmas trees are allowed because they have been accepted by society as multi-cultural.

Nativities are not allowed because they are specific to one religion.

So, then we have Halloween. Some children can not participate because of religious belief. Is this a problem that should fall under Separation of Church and State?

My daughter is a teacher trees ornaments even Santa are forbidden decorations. As are bunnies and eggs at Easter.

Her school still has Easter?

As I said none of the teachers are allowed to decorate with bunnies or eggs or anything that resembles Easter. Herschool has band anything even remotely related or Christmas or Easter be it trees or Santa or Bunnies or eggs to be displayed anywhere near those holidays,

Eggs and bunnies are fertility symbols in Paganism. Pagan loosely meaning "farmers", people of the land.

They were not the "sophisticated" dwellers of the city who were superior and believed in the true God.

IMO -- a little more Paganism would be a good thing.

Food really doesn't come wrapped in plastic or cans from a box store.

So another pagan holy day banned from schools. Sigh
Actually I knew the origin of bunnies and that it wasn't Christian
But the politically correct crowd banned them anyway like the Christmas trees in classrooms were banned. I know a war on pagans , sigh,chuckling.
If the PC crowd has their way the utopian society of the Giver, the book, will make the world so bland.

It sucks when fringe Christians and Atheists -- and fringe 'any group' -- cast a poor light on everyone else fitting under a label. As an atheist I cringe when I read things like, "There are no atheists in foxholes" or "Atheists hate Christmas."

Makes me feel I am being unfairly stereotyped. You can't describe me with either statement.

I can identify with Christians reading/responding to this post who feel targeted when other posters gleefully tout that "Christians" are responsible for trying to ruin Halloween in this school district.

Ha! And all of this is to say I admit I completely understand that all Christians are not the same and I can identify with feeling stereotyped even when someone may not have intended to include "all" Christians (or "all" Atheists, etc...) in their criticisms. After reading this thread, it feels like there's some honesty and common ground lacking.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
"There are no atheists in foxholes" or "Atheists hate Christmas."

Wishful thinking on their part.

They just don't get it. All they can do is relate it to themselves.

a reply to: grandmakdw

According to many scholars, All Hallows' Eve is a Christianized feast initially influenced by Celtic harvest festivals,[2][14] with possible pagan roots, particularly the Gaelic Samhain."


Just an FYI

oh dear oh dear!!!

You just posted information that PROVES that pagan (Celtic) rituals are the actual SOURCES for ALL of the "usurped-by-Christians" festivals (who did so in order to 'acculturate' the pagans, who refused to abstain from having a good time), as well as other "festivals" (like "Ground-Hog Day" for example).



Just an FYI.

a reply to: Annee

It drives me crazy when people are vague and broad sweeping with labels. Labels are anti-individual so they suck. But we're stuck with them -- all of us.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Do you know what Hallows are? Grandma?

Have you ever heard of "Dia De Los Muertes"?

a reply to: grandmakdw

I live in southern GA and this is a bastion of the southern Baptist church, here Halloween is a big deal and I love no only the decorations all over the town but the treat or trick night, this no about religion in my neck of the woods, is about a night of fun and free candy for the children.

People are turning this nation into a piece of crap with all their stupidity and they better start getting their heads out of their butts before American is not more.

You reap what you sow.

a reply to: deadeyedick

That is the point that if we go by the definition the left uses of church and state then all semblance of religion should be removed to be completely separate from gov..

Umm. What? Wow.




We can't have religious freedom if our Government officially endorses one of them. So yes it does need to be removed from Government, and that's not a leftist position, it's a fundamental American principle.





A wall of separation between Church and State.

a reply to: angeldoll

I agree with the native american reason to "ban" Thanksgiving, BUT I'm not adding it to my first comment, because again, its the greatest single day of the entire year.

This thread was about a school system that chose to try to be inclusive and respect religious values.

That backfired on them.

No one in this thread has said that all Christians everywhere are trying to ban Halloween for everyone.

That's simply rank exaggeration.

I did wonder, way back when, if the folks who had complained were Christian. I am aware of lots of Christians who feel that Halloween is evil. Of course, paradoxically, I got jumped for attacking Christians. Turns out that there's a history in Milford of Christians complaining about Halloween.

American Halloween is a secular holiday. It's about costumes, candy and scares.

Now, were a Wiccan teacher to install a statue of the Goddess and or the Horned God in her classroom and require kids to mediate in front of it in honor of Samhain, that would be just as out-of-place as a Manger Scene in a school play.

But ... having kids trick or treat and get candy? Nothing wrong with it. No religion celebrates American Halloween.

I love the folks who came in here stating crazy exaggerations of what has actually happened here. Even in the name of Atheism.

No Atheists, no Wiccans, no Satanists, no Democrats, Liberals or Progressives have said word-one in the thread about condemning all Christians, etc. etc.... but that keeps getting repeated.

Such claims are garbage. Pure. Simple.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
No Atheists, no Wiccans, no Satanists, no Democrats, Liberals or Progressives have said word-one in the thread about condemning all Christians, etc. etc.... but that keeps getting repeated.

Such claims are garbage. Pure. Simple.

Nah. They are not garbage. They are understandable and human -- even if they are in error. I read the thread. I can see how some Christians cannot even begin to identify with the Halloween-hating fringe Christian folks and don't want to share a common label with them.

I get the same vibe when I read offensive comments about "Atheists" that do not apply to me. No one used the word "all" but the broad label "Christians" was used, so some people took it to heart.

No reason to try to make anyone feel bad for it. It happens to everyone sometime when labels are used.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

I know...you'd think extremely conservative people would WANT a religion-free government, so that they may practice their own religion freely.

Imagine if a competing religion had influence (say Catholics) -- and now they started passing laws that infringed upon the protestants?

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Yah, having a bad reaction to the basic truth even after it's explained over and over is pretty much garbage, particularly on the part of folks who are always complaining about other people being offended. Particularly in this thread when a statement which turned out to be completely true was pounced on as "attacking" Christians.

You're tired of being identified with atheists that you don't agree with? Okay. I'm tired of listening to some American Christians constantly whining that they are being attacked ... when usually the only thing that is happening is that they are being told the truth, that Christianity doesn't have some special magical place in the world.

Mother, if you want to feel responsible for how others react to the truth, that's your issue.

No one here is "trying to make others feel bad." Further, what "label" are you referring to in this thread ... the "Christian" one?

Are you saying Christians are offended by being called Christians?

You get "a vibe" eh? Let me tell you the "vibe" I have here and in many threads at ATS. When I referred to Christians in my first few posts, clarified that I wasn't referring to all Christians, I stood up to people who were basically calling me a liar by proving conclusively what I had said was true ... and still have folks denying it.

I think you're a kind-hearted person who wants to get along with everyone. That's great. I'm a person who's more interested in the truth being stated in a public forum. I expect others to be able to take the truth like adults and not hide from it.

That is, after all, the site's motto. We aren't here to "make sure everyone feels fuzzy."

Particularly those who complain about that exact thing everywhere else (including this thread).

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
can see how some Christians cannot even begin to identify with the Halloween-hating fringe Christian folks and don't want to share a common label with them.

First of all, it's not really just a "fringe" as any cursory google search would show you.

However, this is a perfect example: you have some Christians saying it's OK to celebrate Halloween; you have some saying it's a demonic holiday. Not much common ground there. And that's hardly the only major disagreement among people calling themselves "Christian." You can't claim a monolithic cultural Christian heritage just by refusing to share a common label with Christians you don't agree with. These differences are why we need to keep government and religion separate.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Yah, having a bad reaction to the basic truth even after it's explained over and over is pretty much garbage, particularly on the part of folks who are always complaining about other people being offended. Particularly in this thread when a statement which turned out to be completely true was pounced on as "attacking" Christians.

You're tired of being identified with atheists that you don't agree with? Okay. I'm tired of listening to some American Christians constantly whining that they are being attacked ... when usually the only thing that is happening is that they are being told the truth, that Christianity doesn't have some special magical place in the world.

Mother, if you want to feel responsible for how others react to the truth, that's your issue.

No one here is "trying to make others feel bad." Further, what "label" are you referring to in this thread ... the "Christian" one?

Are you saying Christians are offended by being called Christians?

You get "a vibe" eh? Let me tell you the "vibe" I have here and in many threads at ATS. When I referred to Christians in my first few posts, clarified that I wasn't referring to all Christians, I stood up to people who were basically calling me a liar by proving conclusively what I had said was true ... and still have folks denying it.

I think you're a kind-hearted person who wants to get along with everyone. That's great. I'm a person who's more interested in the truth being stated in a public forum. I expect others to be able to take the truth like adults and not hide from it.

That is, after all, the site's motto. We aren't here to "make sure everyone feels fuzzy."

Particularly those who complain about that exact thing everywhere else (including this thread).

I was where you are about 20 years ago, actually.

Since then, I've found that finding common ground is far more productive in terms of reaching my audience than bickering endlessly about 'vast' differences.

That's just what I've found though. Perhaps you've found that people are productively responsive to your methods of exchanging ideas and information.

Have a nice evening!