Lets see how people think and feel about being the 'greatest'.

HI all I thought I would post this here and see how people feel about 2 issues I have been wondering about. So I will pose my questions give my take on them,then let you all comment on what you think and feel about these things. I did post some of this on a prior thread,but I think it more belongs in its own thread.These are important questions that all of us Americans need to ask ourselves and see where we are.

1. What makes a country "The Greatest Country"? How would you define that? If you looked up a book of phrases and looked up that one,what do you think the definition would be? How does America measure up to those standards? Do you feel it does? Or if not,what would you change?


2.What would be the 'line in the sand' that your country could do,that would prompt you to take action to change things for the better? Has it reached that point yet? I won't ask what you would do to change things. I am only interested in where people's dividing line is.

On question 1 for me, I guess being the 'greatest nation' would encompass a country that loyal to its citizens,due to not being bought and paid for by corporations.A country that is powerful,but uses that power to bring about peace in the world. That actively improves on education for its citizens as well as healthcare.

On question 2,I have thought about this,and haven't been able to give a certain 'line' that would force my hand to action. I think I would know when the time comes,at least I hope I would. Thanks for your response.

a reply to: Dimithae

I will expand on this to say that I think if anything I would start petitions for new constitutional amendments in answer to question 2. I think that would be the way to go and we are getting close to having to do that.

I do find it disappointing that ATS members have not risen to the challenge of answering these questions,which I find to be really important right now with all that is going on in the world. I don't know if its fear that is keeping people silent,or they are just thinking about it and mulling it over,to come up with their own definitions. Remember,I am not asking WHAT you would do,simply what would drive you to take action.

There is no greatest, just varying degrees of less s**tty. As Penn and Teller said: "The best, is bulls**t".

a reply to: Daedalus

That is really the whole problem. You can claim that your country is the 'greatest',but so can people from all over the world. And who is to say that each is right or wrong? What I am trying to do is get people to draw parameters around this idea of being the 'greatest',and see how they're country really measures up.

If someone wants to say "our country is the greatest BECAUSE we have the largest armed forces". I can agree with that. We do have the largest armed forces in the world. So under that measurement we would be the greatest. But then you have to wonder......are we war hawks? Is that all we can do better than anyone else? I think really with our resources and talent that we should be leading the way in quite a few areas.Yet we seem to always fall short. Is that because we spend so much on our armed forces? (not to even mention black box projects).Is this what we as Americans want? Can we do better or should we? This is a food for thought thread,yet it seems that only you were brave enough to take up the subject and answer. I am disappointed in ATS right now.

a reply to: Dimithae

The media makes for a great mind programming tool to make believe. There is no such thing as greatness. It's just a word to class people, things and creates division.

Peace

a reply to: Dimithae

There is not one country that is "greater" than any other. We should look at things as a race of people, not which team you happen to like. This isn't football and should not be treated as such.

The Declaration of Independence has a line that we should all remember:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

All Men are Created Equal. Countries rise and fall. Teams win and lose, but no one person is better than the other and that should be our focus.

As for your second question, that line was crossed a long time ago when we failed to rise as a nation and protect the idea of freedom. It's too late, in my opinion, to go back to that ideal without resorting to actions equal to those that founded this nation.

a reply to: Daedalus

I would agree. I think that each country has both strengths and weakness' and for anyone from any country to call out that their country is "The Greatest Country in the world",is putting your self above other people and countries without justification.

a reply to: InnerPeace2012
Its all in the programming. The same mindset that caused the Europeans to believe they had "Manifest Destiny" on their side,so that made all the atrocious crimes they did to Indians okay.

a reply to: introvert

I agree with you on the 2nd question. We are past the point of no return unless we are willing to undertake extreme measures.

We have gone down a wrong road it seems where equality does not matter to our government nor does democracy. It has become a laughable idea. I am sure that our forefathers are just rolling in their graves watching what has become of the US.

a reply to: Dimithae

Get used to that disappointment...i've been feeling it for years, and it only gets worse as time marches on.

I'll say it again; there is no objectively "greatest" country. It's entirely subjective, and based on personal opinions, not facts.

There are no good or bad countries, only good and bad governments. The people of a country may be splendid sorts, while their government is made up of absolutely wretched people, that do horrible things.

I think this is where a lot of the confusion comes from.

I hate to use this as an example, but let's look at Nazi Germany. The average german citizen wasn't completely behind what Hitler was up to....hell, the average citizen had no idea what was really going on. A lot of German soldiers didn't even really believe in the crap Hitler was doing, but they followed orders, because they understood what would happen if they stepped out of line.

This is a perfect example of a PEOPLE being good, while their government is evil.

a reply to: Dimithae

to answer your second question, ".What would be the 'line in the sand' that your country could do,that would prompt you to take action to change things for the better?"


my opinion from what i observe in today's american society it would take this to get people to speak up, and get up to do something.

the internet would have to be priced out of the budget for the general public.
fuel would have to reach a price that would strain most household incomes
make using smart phones and tablets a cost per hour to use, and cost per gigabyte to use.

no one is going to do anything until these things happen. people are too busy staring into their mobile devices to care.

a reply to: Daedalus

I'll say it again; there is no objectively "greatest" country. It's entirely subjective, and based on personal opinions, not facts.

Well and that in itself is a problem.When you talk to Americans and you bring up anything negative about what their government is doing,most will fall back on "this is the greatest country in the world" routine as if that explains and excuses anything the government is doing.

What I think needs to be done is for Americans to define it,and draw lines around it,then try to defend it. That they may have a larger issue doing. Once they can see that they can't really defend their logic,they will have to look at the real problems in this country and start to address them as any good citizen of any country should. How can you fix a problem if you refuse to acknowledge it?

While being in denial of how far our country has fallen,and how corrupt it has become,things will only keep sliding downward until Americans admit there is a problem and decide what action to take to fix it. This is not about trashing a country.This is about FIXING a country. And Americans have a lot of work cut out for them.But those steps can't be taken until people get together and say "yeah,this has to be fixed alright".

As Americans,we can do anything we set our minds to. We just haven't gotten mad enough to address the real issues facing us yet.

a reply to: subfab

I agree with what you are saying,but I would really hope that it would take less than that. The sooner people wake up,the sooner we can fix things.

a reply to: Dimithae

Using the term "greatest" just fuels pro-American propaganda. It is a completely subjective term. We shouldn't be striving to be the "greatest". We should be striving to be fair to all our citizens and treat each one the same as we treat anyone else.

As for my breaking point? Things would have to be SUPER dire for me to start resisting the government. When things were bad during the 2008 crash, I was depressed and thinking about it, but never seriously jumped on board.

originally posted by: Dimithae
a reply to: Daedalus

That is really the whole problem. You can claim that your country is the 'greatest',but so can people from all over the world. And who is to say that each is right or wrong? What I am trying to do is get people to draw parameters around this idea of being the 'greatest',and see how they're country really measures up.

If someone wants to say "our country is the greatest BECAUSE we have the largest armed forces". I can agree with that. We do have the largest armed forces in the world. So under that measurement we would be the greatest. But then you have to wonder......are we war hawks? Is that all we can do better than anyone else? I think really with our resources and talent that we should be leading the way in quite a few areas.Yet we seem to always fall short. Is that because we spend so much on our armed forces? (not to even mention black box projects).Is this what we as Americans want? Can we do better or should we? This is a food for thought thread,yet it seems that only you were brave enough to take up the subject and answer. I am disappointed in ATS right now.


You typing about America? or China? I thought China had the most boots on the ground?

a reply to: Dimithae

America is the greatest nuff said.

If the government became tyrannical.

a reply to: TechniXcality

No its not 'nuff said. Prove it. That is my challenge.If we truly are the greatest,then that shouldn't be hard to do,now is it?

Okay,so what do you mean by Tyrannical? What would the government have to do to push your buttons? When do you say "hey,thats it right there"?

a reply to: pikestaff

www.globalsecurity.org...

1 United States - USA + USMC 1,295,000
2 China 1,250,000
3 South Korea 1,240,000
4 India 1,120,000
United States Army 1,052,000
5 North Korea 1,000,000
6 Israel 633,000
7 Pakistan 550,000
8 Russia 415,000
9 Vietnam 410,000
10 Turkey 400,000
11 Afghanistan 352,000
12 Iran 350,000
13 Singapore 350,000
14 Egypt 310,000
15 Indonesia 300,000
16 Finland 280,000
17 Bangladesh 260,000
18 Iraq 250,000
19 Myanmar 250,000
US Marine Corps 242,675
20 Sudan 240,000
21 Colombia 235,000
22 Mexico 212,000
23 South Sudan 210,000
24 Ethiopia 200,000
25 Sri Lanka 200,000
26 Taiwan 200,000
27 Thailand 190,000
28 Brazil 190,000
29 Morocco 175,000
30 Japan 152,000
31 Saudi Arabia [RSLF + SANG] 150,000
32 Greece 127,000
33 UK 116,000
34 Italy 116,000
35 Syria 110,000
36 Cambodia 110,000
37 Algeria 110,000
38 Switzerland 108,000
39 Germany 105,000
40 France 103,000
41 Angola 100,000
42 Eritrea 100,000??
43 D.R.Congo 100,000??
44 Free Syrian Army 100,000??

I come up with the USA everytime.

a reply to: Dimithae

Basing a country's standing in the world merely upon the number of people in it's military is rather a fallacy.

For example
number of caterers in the RLC (Royal Logistics Corps) around 800..

22 SAS Regiment has four operational squadrons: A, B, D and G. Each squadron consists of approximately 65 men (260 men)


Now, who is going to win the fight?


There is also the nuclear thing to consider. No one is winning a war against any of the 5 permanent members of the UN security council.

The greatest country in the world is probably the one you aren't in a hurry to emigrate from :-)

Does anybody remember this?
This was a pretty powerful piece of writing and acting, perhaps when the US addresses some of the issues mentioned here.