Navy to challenge Chinese claims in South China Sea

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: Vasa Croe

The weaponry that one single US destroyer has can eliminate Chinas cheap-ass newly-built topography in about 4 minutes.

This is like China bringing a stick to a nuke fight.




I do hope you are on that ship when it sets sail for China...
that ship might need you..

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: Vasa Croe

The weaponry that one single US destroyer has can eliminate Chinas cheap-ass newly-built topography in about 4 minutes.

This is like China bringing a stick to a nuke fight.

This is true but the immediate economic impact on America and the crash of the stock market is the real problem.

We just aren't tooled up to replace the supply chains yet and the economic disaster that would impact the world would most likely spell doom for most citizens around the world.

Let's hope this goes the way of peace not war. We can win the military conflict not so sure about the economic war.

Umm you do realize that If china strikes the US first their DEBT is NULLIFIED right? IF china shoots at th eship and or heaven forbid sinks it the stock markets curency exchange may flop but thats about it. It instantly means th e US dont owe CHina crap. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PAY A DEBT TO A COUNTRY WHO ATTACKS YOU.(emphasis only...i dont yell lol)

Seems like the US's response for China helping Russia in the ME

originally posted by: crazyewok

I thought it was to defend the USA?

Anyway providing no one gets itchy trigger fingers China will no doubt be the one that blinks.

Yeah, the Chinese are way too friendly sometimes ... didn't even hear them scramble a jet to escort the bosos out of their territory.

And for those who think it's international waters, 12 miles out ... IS the countries territory, period. Get over it.

a reply to: yuppa

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PAY A DEBT TO A COUNTRY WHO ATTACKS YOU

It depends ... First of all you are legally wrong. Second, if China wins USA will pay the debt and much much more reparations. contributions etc

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: yuppa

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PAY A DEBT TO A COUNTRY WHO ATTACKS YOU

It depends ... First of all you are legally wrong. Second, if China wins USA will pay the debt and much much more reparations. contributions etc

China wont win a war with the US

Likely it would end up in a bloody stalemate with the US blockadeing chinese ports.

originally posted by: bjarneorn

And for those who think it's international waters, 12 miles out ... IS the countries territory, period. Get over it.

Not in the case of its artificial islands.

a reply to: crazyewok

with the US blockadeing chinese ports.

That is the reason why China strategically preparing to invest huge sums in building continental "Silk road"

Along with developing their own navy.

a reply to: DupontDeux

My guess is, the CNO United States Navy, and CINCPACFLT, have been making, pardon the pun, waves around the Pentagon.

My guess is the new Chairman of the joint chiefs got a little/lot tired of it, and went to his boss, Mr. Obama, and said, essentially, we need to let China know who the big dog still is in the Pacific...and shut these two up.

Or words to that effect...

It is just a matter of time...

I am almost positive we will have a republican President and cabinet in 2016...


Question is will we be at war yet...

It is shaping out like this china, North Korea,Iran, Russia and some south American countries vs. NATO.

Not to mention India, may get into the mix.

Well if we want to tie in the end of the world prophecies all we need to do is take a look at who the current secretary of the navy is.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Well if we want to tie in the end of the world prophecies all we need to do is take a look at who the current secretary of the navy is.

I see that. That is kinda creepy..

It just looks like to me the chess pieces are lining up.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

There is no way that China picks a fight with the US Navy over this.

Way, way too much to lose. The U.S. certainly isn't going to start the shooting. The Iranian airbus incident is ingrained in their psyches. They'll let the badguys start the dance music.

This will be nothing more than showing the Chinese that they're not the big dog in the Pacific. Not even off their own shores. The big dog is still Seventh Fleet, and its affiliated forces.

We have done this before and we will keep doing this. When we do China normally announces that the US has special permission to pass through its waters but, that nobody else has better try. We do these all over the world in illegally claimed sea zones. And right now China and India are both competing against each other for US investment and trade. Notice the back to back visits by both India and China's leaders to the US, both on a charm offensive with nothing but, praise for the US. China taking on the US directly is extremely unlikely. The danger comes if China ends up fighting with a US ally like Japan or the Philippines or even a good friend like India. Or an ASEAN nation like Myanmar or Vietnam since the US has several allies in ASEAN. Those are where likely trouble would start. Likely both the US and China would try and contain such a thing to limited engagement in a certain area.

a reply to: MrSpad


But in the case of the US Navy, yeah.

The best thing China could do or say is absolutely nothing, but we'll see about that.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

Not in the case of its artificial islands.

Really?

Has it ever occurred to you, that since they are able to build these Islands ... that the Chinese land mass is actually extending out to the southern China sea? It means, that the Islands are being build on the China land base ...

The US has always been wrong, arrogant and obnoxious in these matters. China is right, they just lack the balls to stick to it.

It's cost-effective to just get it over with instead of a protracted stand-off.

Likely a lot of forces are currently being tasked against RU assets. So in this act, we will see to what degree China supports RU....if their "ally" is worth causing an incident with the USN.

a reply to: bjarneorn

Has it occurred to you that international law prohibits what the Chinese are doing in terms of creating sovereign territory out of nothing?

in this instance China, and you, are wrong and that's based on international law and the UN.

An EEZ (exclusive Economic Zone) does not impart national sovereignty. It allows the resources in the area to be claimed and controlled by the nation itself however it cannot restrict freedom of movement on sea nor by air.

Creation of an island does not create sovereignty.

UN Convention - Laws of the sea (UNCLOS) - *PDF LINK*

Specifically Part V - EEZ - article 58 and 60 - Artificial Islands.

Article 58
Article 58 Rights and duties of other States in the exclusive economic zone 1. In the exclusive economic zone, all States, whether coastal or land-locked, enjoy, subject to the relevant provisions of this Convention, the freedoms referred to in article 87 of navigation and overflight and of the laying of submarine cables and pipelines, and other internationally lawful uses of the sea related to these freedoms, such as those associated with the operation of ships, aircraft and submarine cables and pipelines, and compatible with the other provisions of this Convention. 2. Articles 88 to 115 and other pertinent rules of international law apply to the exclusive economic zone in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part. 3. In exercising their rights and performing their duties under this Convention in the exclusive economic zone, States shall have due regard to the rights and duties of the coastal State and shall comply with the laws and regulations adopted by the coastal State in accordance with the provisions of this Convention and other rules of international law in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.

Article 60
1. In the exclusive economic zone, the coastal State shall have the exclusive right to construct and to authorize and regulate the construction, operation and use of: (a) artificial islands; (b) installations and structures for the purposes provided for in article 56 and other economic purposes; (c) installations and structures which may interfere with the exercise of the rights of the coastal State in the zone. 2. The coastal State shall have exclusive jurisdiction over such artificial islands, installations and structures, including jurisdiction with regard to customs, fiscal, health, safety and immigration laws and regulations. 3. Due notice must be given of the construction of such artificial islands, installations or structures, and permanent means for giving warning of their presence must be maintained. Any installations or structures which are abandoned or disused shall be removed to ensure safety of navigation, taking into account any generally accepted international standards established in this regard by the competent international organization. Such removal shall also have due regard to fishing, the protection of the marine environment and the rights and duties of other States. Appropriate publicity shall be given to the depth, position and dimensions of any installations or structures not entirely removed. 4. The coastal State may, where necessary, establish reasonable safety zones around such artificial islands, installations and structures in which it may take appropriate measures to ensure the safety both of navigation and of the artificial islands, installations and structures. 5. The breadth of the safety zones shall be determined by the coastal State, taking into account applicable international standards. Such zones shall be designed to ensure that they are reasonably related to the nature and function of the artificial islands, installations or structures, and shall not exceed a distance of 500 metres around them, measured from each point of their outer edge, except as authorized by generally accepted international standards or as recommended by the competent international organization. Due notice shall be given of the extent of safety zones. 6. All ships must respect these safety zones and shall comply with generally accepted international standards regarding navigation in the vicinity of artificial islands, installations, structures and safety zones. 7. Artificial islands, installations and structures and the safety zones around them may not be established where interference may be caused to the use of recognized sea lanes essential to international navigation. 8. Artificial islands, installations and structures do not possess the status of islands. They have no territorial sea of their own, and their presence does not affect the delimitation of the territorial sea, the exclusive economic zone or the continental shelf.

The area China is trying to claim, the South China Sea, are in fact established international Sea Lanes used for commerce and navigation. 5 Trillion dollars + flow through the area China is attempting to claim.

a reply to: Xcathdra
Isn't it a little ironic to have a citizen, from one of the few country's not legally allowed to enforce a given law, quote said law?

The US has no legal authority to enforce UNCLOS. Enforcement of EEZ is by UNCLOS member states (Article 74). Something the US is not.

It is also why the US has done nothing, literally nothing, about this expect fly by and wave fingers. Just like they are planning to do now.

a reply to: peck420

The US has recognized and abided by UNCLOS since 1994 (however it has not been ratified).