On the matter of gun control, isn't it time to agree to disagree?

We've all seen throughout the last few days NUMEROUS threads discussing at the basic level, gun control. Why we need it, why we don't. Why conservatives are gun crazy nut jobs and the liberals are ignorant idealists that have ridiculous views on guns.

Within these threads, it's primarily the same people arguing back and forth the same points. Don't get me wrong, I love a good healthy debate, however I think we've moved past the "healthy" and are moving quickly into a level of anger towards one another that is no longer healthy or productive.

There is no perfect answer, and I doubt within our lifetimes there will be. We've now argued it back and forth for weeks and haven't found this definitive answer. So let's, in the name of good faith and community, agree to disagree??

Perhaps I'm just a dreamer, but I can't be the only one... Right???

Much love and good vibes errbody!!

Invariably there is a cost to freedom and in the case of guns it is the occasional crazy person or terrorist. Most people on ATS recognize this fact, but some are more Authoritarian and believe that the Government needs to take care of us with laws and their good will and benevolence.

I am not willing to trade my freedom for safety. Some people are.

Arguing is a means of education.

When logic is removed from a debate the only things that remain are subjective opinions and feelings. That is where the question of the gun issue in the USA appears to be today.

Good luck to all.

Somehow I can't look into the face of my American child and repeat the thread title with a straight face. As a gun owner and a parent I sincerely hope to find common ground.

a reply to: frostie

I agree completely, frostie. However as my post kind of states, we have learned as much as we can from one another. At this point it's just the same bickering we saw with the first "gun threads".

This argument has reached it's pinnacle days ago. Time to move on. IMHO of course...

I would agree to America giving up their guns if the whole damn landmass weren't already awash in them.

Here in Japan, we can't own firearms. Well, scratch that, we technically can. But the licensing requirements are so bothersome and stringent that owning one is virtually impossible.

Because Gun laws have been so strict, (even going back as far as the 17th century gun laws have been strict here) there are few firearms actually in the hands of citizens. There are few guns on the Japanese landmass, period. Because we're an island nation, it's easy to restrict and prevent unlawful gun shipments onto our shores.

The United States was born from firearms. It was conquered by firearms, colonized with firearms. It is ingrained into the very soul of the United States. You can't have gun laws akin to Japanese or even UK laws in the United States without a couple of things happening first.

1) Close down all borders and enact INCREDIBLY strict import restrictions. This will stop new guns from being introduced to the mainland illegally.

2) Forcefully remove the guns from previously lawful owners. This is the big one. As much as the liberal party in the united states wants this to happen, it won't. Not without the loss of millions, potentially hundreds of millions of lives. The phrase "Come and take it" comes to mind. People won't give their guns up willingly.

The liberals really haven't thought this through too much honestly. If they want gun laws like we have here in Japan or elsewhere, MILLIONS will die. There is no getting around it. Unless they're okay with basically enacting a dictatorship and brutally killings millions of their own citizens, it's impossible. Hell, even enacting tougher gun laws would only make it harder for lawful to purchase firearms. The U.S. is awash with so many firearms acquiring one illegally is as easy as an exchange in a dark alley.

So the U.S. right now is sort of in a catch-22. If they want harsher gun laws, it will only embolden (and create) more criminals. But if they do nothing, the problem of gun violence is still a very real conundrum.

All I can say to my friends across the pacific is this: "Good luck. I hope you find a way to preserve the culture you adore and protect the lives of those you love."

-Mikoto

a reply to: kosmicjack

Could you elaborate? As an American gun owner with a child myself, I don't understand what you're getting at.

Not attacking your post in any way! Just want to hear where you're coming from.

a reply to: seaswine

Please Define your Interpretation of the Term " Gun Control " . Without knowing your Personal Opinion of that Term , your Question is Based with No Logical Meaning .

a reply to: kosmicjack

Same.

Agreeing to disagree will do nothing but move us closer to becoming two countries, to civil war, or to total collapse. It also feels like we're ignoring the issues. I don't know how many times since last week I've read, "Oh well kids getting killed once in a while...that's the price of freedom." Is it really?

a reply to: seaswine

Plus I want threads like the one I created shortly ago, and other post that have prompted this OP to actually stick to the topic but they always end up in a plain up Gun control argument.

Atleast my thread shifted more toward the shooters themselves...

a reply to: Zanti Misfit

That's kind of the thing, what exactly is gun control? So many people have different views of what should, and should not be "control".

I'm just saying for the sake of this site being flooded with more and more threads discussing the same darn thing, let's stop here. If you want to keep discussing gun control issues, there are plenty other forms to do so. We don't need a new one (or2-3) every day.

I have no problem with lawful gun owners, open carry, concealed carry. I do have a problem with irresponsible gun owners, bat crap insane gun owners, and untrained gun owners. I am not sure what the answers are, but the knee jerk stuff needs to stop, and an intelligent conversation needs to take place.

a reply to: frostie

Absolutely. I hope this does not turn into the same song and dance of gun control. Maybe it will, maybe it won't.

My OP is a simple attempt to end the flood of gun threads. There are more than enough already to discuss the eclectic views of everyone from far left to far right. At this point any new gun thread simply seems redundant...

a reply to: BubbaJoe

I agree bubba. But I don't see that discussion happening here or on any other forum. Sad but true..

a reply to: seaswine

We've now argued it back and forth for weeks and haven't found this definitive answer. So let's, in the name of good faith and community, agree to disagree??

I'm just going to agree - it's easier

Anything to avoid getting myself shot

originally posted by: seaswine
a reply to: BubbaJoe

I agree bubba. But I don't see that discussion happening here or on any other forum. Sad but true..

One point, lets find one point we can all agree on, for me it is open carry of long guns, I can find no justification, outside of open rebellion, for anyone to be carrying a long gun in public. If I am wrong about the justification, please educate me, but to carry a rifle down a public street, there is no reason for it outside of the honor guard in a parade.

originally posted by: seaswine
a reply to: kosmicjack

Could you elaborate? As an Americhildrenowner with a child myself, I don't understand what you're getting at.

Not attacking your post in any way! Just want to hear where you're coming from.

Agreeing to disagree means accepting the status quo. The status quo is resulting in mass shootings every few weeks/months, including dead children. If we keep pushing toward common ground on common sense steps we might put an end this madness.

a reply to: seaswine

Yes in response to that. It is definitely time to agree to disagree, all this arguing and bickering obviously gets us nowhere. It leads us to an unsatisfying response and thoughts continue to rage.

At this point the issue is just that either or people are going to argue and complain if something doesn't happen and then after the matter too. And to be honest. Both can go the same ways. It's really 50/50, they can both have a similar response, ban guns or not. They can both go down hill no matter what.
Its time for this argument to end.

-Seraii

I'm sure there is...

Somewhere.

But folks like me aren't who you want to go to for it.

I'm fully in favor of agreeing to disagree...but common ground is, in all honesty, asking too much from me. It's the anarchist in me, I suppose...at least where my second amendment rights are concerned.

First amendment should be unbound. So, too, should, the second. These are the two most important parts of the Constitution.

MHO, of course. Feel free to disagree.