8-year-old girl fatally shot by 11-year-old boy for not letting him see her puppy

11-year old male displaying extreme violence....hmmm. That little girl probably was well aware of his violent mentality and that is probably why she did not want to show him her puppy.

I cringe just telling this story, but I knew a kid about that age that loved to take puppies and using his thumbs, poke their eyes out.

We have a VIOLENCE problem all over the world, especially among males. However, I have seen some videos recently where girls are displaying extreme violence as well.

We have a PARENTING and a VIOLENCE problem.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: grainofsand

"Do we ban kitchen knives then?"

We already have banned carrying knives without sufficient cause, kitchen or otherwise. And getting caught with one will get you a possible 6 month sentence, even for a first offence.

You illustrate my point quite nicely there, the UK ban on carrying knifes didn't stop the 26,370 knife crime offences in 2014/15, and a ban in the US on guns will not stop criminals using them.

I am happy with UK gun law, I could obtain a shotgun if I wished, I am of good standing, but the US and UK are apples and oranges. There is no way you can 'retro-fit' a ban in a society with millions of firearms.

So, I say again, if the boy in the OP did not have access to the gun it is likely he would have just grabbed a knife and stabbed her.
The access to the gun enabled him to shoot her.
There are many legally held shotguns in the UK but no shootings by children as in the OP, you know why? Because we have to lock them away from children here.

...but speaking of bans, I refer you back to the 26,370 knife crime offences in 2014/15, and carrying them is banned, so it clearly does not stop criminals using them when they wish to. Same with guns.

a reply to: grainofsand

To be honest thought to most of our beloved knife welding neds 6 months for being caught with a knife is simply a badge of honor considering they will only do 3 months and then come out and brag to there friends about it. Take that gaol time up to around 5 years and i imagine it may possibly put a dent in our crime figures or at least discourage them carrying the things.

Also i think you need to be a farmer or stay in the countryside to legally own a shotgun, they are certainly not going to let you keep one in your home if you lived in say a city or town simply because you would have no need to own one.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: grainofsand

To be honest thought to most of our beloved knife welding neds 6 months for being caught with a knife is simply a badge of honor considering they will only do 3 months and then come out and brag to there friends about it.

Agreed.
It is easy access to knives which is why they are the preferred weapon of choice by our UK thugs, same in the OP case, it was the easy access to the shotgun which resulted in the shooting.

I don't know US law of course, but if the parent had locked the cartridges away then it would not have happened, but the lad would likely have stabbed the girl instead. This seems to be a failed family situation to me, and less about the particular weapon of choice.

*Edit*
I see your edit, nope, shotgun licenses are fairly easy to get, be of good standing (no convictions) then either join a shooting club, have land of your own to use, or permission of a landowner (also of good standing) to shoot on their land.
I've been tempted for a while, but I really do like my crossbows and am not restricted by much legislation for them.
Curious really, as my bows are pretty much as lethal at short ranges as a shotgun...but I still lock my bolts up...just in case.

a reply to: grainofsand

Are you not still required to keep the weapon at a shooting club if you do reside in the countryside? And if you do possess such a weapon in your own home are you not also required to keep the thing in a secure cabinet with ammunition stored separately?

Look at the amount of people that meet there end at the hands of guns each year in America. There is obviously a problem with no apparent solution. More Americans die due to gun deaths than they do traffic fatalities, there has to be something very wrong there.

a reply to: andy06shake

Yep yep, secure cabinet locked up so the kids can't get to it.
That is probably why there are no incidents of children shooting others with guns in the UK.
The ability to legally own the shotgun in the OP was not the problem, just the fact that the boy had easy access to it.

a reply to: grainofsand

Sorry i edited my last post again there. Mobile and bus stop responsible. LoL

a reply to: andy06shake

Lol, no worries.

Look at the amount of people that meet there end at the hands of guns each year in America. There is obviously a problem with no apparent solution.
More Americans die due to gun deaths than they do traffic fatalities, there has to be something very wrong there.

Clearly there is a problem, but a ban would just result in good little worker bees handing them in while criminals and psycho's simply wouldn't.
Even UK gun storage laws would have been unlikely to save the girl in the OP if the owner of the gun ignored it.

I have no idea how to improve the situation in the US aside from stricter vetting of gun purchasers, but I can't see a ban either being able to be enforced, or being particularly helpful to the millions of law-abiding gun owners in the country. The crim's and psycho's will still own them, and I know I'd want one as well in such a situation.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

You never had a problem because you're a responsible gun owner, you likely taught your kids that owning a gun is a huge responsibility.

Like I said a lot of it is cultural. Some people don't seem to get how serious owning a gun is, they just have a gun fetish.

In a big way you could saw that this dangerous gun fetish IS a people problem.

Part of the answer is education. I guarantee if we properly educate people on guns we'd get more folks like yourself and less like the parents of this 11 year old kid.

a reply to: grainofsand

Personally i would rather not have any criminals and psycho's welding guns as it obviously makes there job far easier, certainly enables them to a fashion imho.

I imagine the situation can only be improved by way of reducing there numbers on the streets. However in a nation such as the US where its everyone's god given lawful right to own such i cannot see how to fix the problem without changing the way the people view there own society.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: grainofsand

Are you not still required to keep the weapon at a shooting club if you do reside in the countryside? And if you do possess such a weapon in your own home are you not also required to keep the thing in a secure cabinet with ammunition stored separately?

Look at the amount of people that meet there end at the hands of guns each year in America. There is obviously a problem with no apparent solution. More Americans die due to gun deaths than they do traffic fatalities, there has to be something very wrong there.

I saw something saying that would be the case by 2015 and if you break out homicides from suicides definately not. But to date I can't find a single year where homicides via guns outnumbered car fatalities but then again people making the comparison never seem to care. People can feel free to keep posting that though. As long as we get rid of the evil guns, but in reality...it won't happen.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

This articular seems to suggest just that, ether way its a hell of a lot of people that die at the hand of firearms.

www.bloomberg.com...

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Reallyfolks

This articular seems to suggest just that, ether way its a hell of a lot of people that die at the hands of firearms.

www.bloomberg.com...

Like what less than half a percent of total deaths? Ok. I understand that but reality is banning guns aren't happening and 25,000 laws on the books haven't stopped it, what number of laws will?

More than that laws do not and are not meant to prevent crime, and we can't ban bad parents. I am all for solutions and have made several. But people who are not dealing in reality and simply scream ban guns are part of the problem to since that isn't happening. Not saying you are but many on ats do. In that case scream away. Your ranting and won't solve anything and being completely honest those people need to be mocked and ignored until they get a grip on reality.

a very sad and depressing story. nothing to add but that.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

Well the US did manage to ban alcohol for a time. Not really that far a stretch to do the same with guns. Probably not all the same given the fact that it was a different world and a different time.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Reallyfolks

Well the US did manage to ban alcohol for a time. Not really that far a stretch to do the same with guns. Probably not all the same given the fact that it was a different world and a different time.

No they didnt, they managed to send the whole thing underground and create a lot of wealthy mobsters and corrupt politicians in the process. Same thing with drugs. You can try to ban it but it failed with alcohol, has failed with drugs, and neither of those had the constitution backing them up.

Please come to reality. They never managed to ban alcohol. They tried, failed miserably, and made things worse

a reply to: Reallyfolks

They still made it illegal through.

Reality? The reality is that the US has the highest rate of gun related deaths per capita among all the developed nations.

Thats the reality of the situation in a supposed first world nation.

originally posted by: IShotMyLastMuse
America does not have a gun problem.
Also, take the child away, the people he is with are clearly not fit to be parents.

Gee, I wonder how that would have gone down if the girl had her own gun too! They could have shot each other, and both be dead!

More guns for all! That'll solve the problem! Everyone just shoots everyone else and there will be nobody left to even debate gun ownership!

Good plan!!!

(In case some people are confused, my entire post is total and complete sarcasm.)

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Reallyfolks

They still made it illegal through.

Reality? The reality is that the US has the highest rate of gun related deaths per capita among all the developed nations.

Thats the reality of the situation in a supposed first world nation.

Illegal doesn't mean ban. Laws cannot and are not meant to prevent crime, you will not meet the requirements to change the constitution. These are facts. Again deal in reality and suggest solutions around reality and I'm all ears.

Even making it illegal without the constitional changes would do what? Turn 70 million citizens in to criminals. We haven't got the resources to house 70 million more criminals.

Facts, I'm sorry the US is full of crappy parents. I'm sorry we have so many aholes in the US. It's not a gun problem it's a people and poor parent problem. If it was a gun problem the numbers would be much higher each year considering the number of guns and owners not committing crimes vastly outnumbers those who do. You want to sterilize people after determing those who would be crap parents? Want to ban sex before people are financially and emotionally ready in case pregnancy happens? Forced abortions? Pretty ridiculous so is banning guns as it won't happen and laws won't help.

So you can argue with yourself on getting rid of guns. Want to step into reality? I'm all ears.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

My own nation is also full of crappy parents and psychopaths not to mention rather a few other miscreants doing the rounds and in our reality they are not all out shooting one another in the numbers that happen in the US, and thats taking into account the difference in population numbers. Reason being stricter gun control laws. As to sterilizing people both our nations operated eugenics policy well into the last century so we are both guilty of that particular atrocity.