8-year-old girl fatally shot by 11-year-old boy for not letting him see her puppy

There is no gun problem...it's called a people problem.
Cain killed Abel with a rock...it's heart problem.

Do cars drive drunk?
Do spoons make people fat?

If we make guns illegal, then nobody will get shot. That's how we stopped everyone from doing drugs

a reply to: MotherMayEye

There is no defense against any sufficiently large well equipped federal government simply by way of owning a gun. This may not have been the case 230 odd years ago when the right to bear arms law was set in place but in todays world Guns simply do not equate to defense and to be fair the only thing that they will do is get you killed quicker by said federal government. So why claim to keep them for that purpose?

a reply to: grainofsand

The only reason I come up is in a post above. I think they want to put off guns from people's hands, cause sheeps doesn't have fangs or claws. They are harmless, it's the shepherd that got the defense against the wolves. (The wolves being them also). Even if I agree that our arsenal is toys comparing to H.A.A.R.P and all the stuff they have, if bilions of people have weapons and are against them, it could surely get problematic for them. I think they are on a critical step of their plan, and I think it's now that things can change. They are taking our freedom piece by piece, it's surely no easy task and such a plan surely have lot of risk. I believe they are backing themself by taking every bit of hope/defense we have left.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: MotherMayEye

There is no defense against any sufficiently large well equipped federal government simply by way of owning a gun. This may not have been the case 230 odd years ago when the right to bear arms law was set in place but in todays world Guns simply do not equate to defense and to be fair the only thing that they will do is get you killed quicker by said federal government. So why claim to keep them for that purpose?

Because people have a right to try to defend themselves. From a tyrannical government, from people who want to kill them with baseball bats, from rapists, from anyone trying to do them grave bodily harm.

Women would be even more vulnerable if guns didn't even the playing field. Men can overpower women far too easily.

a reply to: andy06shake

What if the girl had been killed by a crossbow? Ban them as well?
I own a few bows quite legally here in the UK, all easily capable of killing a human with a single appropriately aimed bolt.
My son was quite capable of using them when he was aged 11, and had bow safety drummed into him.
Even then though I kept/keep all the bolts in a locked cupboard.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Sadly i think you might be missing my point so we will just have to agree to disagree because short of your government coming to her senses and banning the use of firearms we will just need to sit back and debate the death of a poor 8 year old at the hands of an 11 year old by way of shotgun. This wont be the last incident of that you can be sure.

Yeah, guess what the parents were doing. Watching a damned football game. In the meantime, their son was committing a homicide. That was a "small" tidbit they failed to mention.

Very sad story. The parents of the little boy should be held accountable they bought the gun and stored it improperly allowing acress to the firearm to a child. if he loaded it himself even more concerning.

The parents of the boy failed to teach him the dangerous of guns, they didn't teach him to accept other opinion or to accept no as answer. They failed to protect his safety and the safety of other by allowing him access to the gun. The child is incapable of making these decision the blame rests solely on the parents. At 11 years old he is to young to be home alone so his parents just watched him take the gun and go out back? Was he left alone at that age if not what were his parents doin to be oblivious their son had just snagged the shot gun and was on his way to settle a score.


Gross levels of incompetence from his parents.


*oh they were watching the football game how glorious




a reply to: Cabin

a reply to: grainofsand

A crossbow is pretty much just as fatal as a shotgun round especially at close range. Ban any dangerous high powered weapons would be my thinking. Certainly keep them out of the hands of children. And the reason i imagine you keep said weapons locked away form you child, safety drummed into him or not, is so something like this could not happen.

originally posted by: zerozero00
a reply to: JackReyes

If you are an American then I salute you sir, breath of fresh air considering all the pro gunners on ATS

We will never ever see it from a pro gunners perspective here in the UK as we are a fairly intelligent and self controlled society, giving the right to own weapons to all is only ever gonna end in tears...we have enough issues here without every tom dick and harry shooting up everywhere

I don't even allow my grandchildren to play with plastic toy guns...they should be banned too

If you were an intelligent and self controlled society, you wouldnt need any gun laws, and people could be free to their own means of defense.

Narcissistic would be a beyter adjective.

I guess just everyone but Tom Dick and Harry are intellegent and self controlled.

HEy, just deport those three and maybe your masters can loosen your reigns.

originally posted by: andy06shake
And the reason i imagine you keep said weapons locked away form you child, safety drummed into him or not, is so something like this could not happen.

Absolutely.
My son enjoyed many hours in his childhood with my bows, safely target shooting with me, but yes, the slimmest risk of a moment of madness by anyone is the reason my bolts are locked away and I have the only keys.

If the owner of the shotgun in this story had just locked the cartridges away then the boy could not have shot her.
But if the child is so disturbed that he would take and use a gun then it is likely he just would have grabbed a kitchen knife and stabbed her.
Do we ban kitchen knives then?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Sadly i think you might be missing my point so we will just have to agree to disagree because short of your government coming to her senses and banning the use of firearms we will just need to sit back and debate the death of a poor 8 year old at the hands of an 11 year old by way of shotgun. This wont be the last incident of that you can be sure.

Yes. I'll agree to disagree, because we haven't even begun to debate violence against women. I just don't agree with taking away a woman's right to defend herself from someone more powerful.

Any gun owner, who has kids, and doesn't take appropriate measures to keep the guns/ammo out of the hands of the kids, needs to stand trial and serve the time for the crime committed.

Owned guns for years, been shooting since I was six. If my kid did this I would turn myself in as an irresponsible gun owner.

a reply to: grainofsand

"Do we ban kitchen knives then?"

We already have banned carrying knives without sufficient cause, kitchen or otherwise. And getting caught with one will get you a possible 6 month sentence, even for a first offence.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Well we don't carry guns over here in the U.K(legally) and Woman dont seem to be any the worse for wear compared to your own nation. Truth be told rather a few of them these days are perfectly capable of defending themselves as well as any Man.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Well we don't carry guns over here in the U.K(legally) and Woman dont seem to be any the worse for wear compared to your own nation. Truth be told rather a few of them these days are perfectly capable of defending themselves as well as any Man.

I am actually speaking from experience, just to let you know. Two actually. I will spare you the details though.

Has gun violence personally affected me or anyone I love? No.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

"I am actually speaking from experience, just to let you know. Two actually. I will spare you the details though."

That sounds horrible, even without you going into detail. Suffered some really nasty stuff myself in life. And i can understand your opinion regarding a gun offering possible protection. I just feel that the cons possibly outweigh the pros with regards to gun ownership.

a reply to: zerozero00

Attitudes need to change before these incidents will stop

This right here is the biggest factor in this whole gun safety gun control discussion.

Sure we can have tougher laws but they won't stop the bloodshed until America addresses its dangerous gun fetish. Whenever I talk to gun owners they always have this knee jerk "get your hands off my guns" and "I can have whatever kind of gun I want, I'm an American" reaction. The American erection for guns needs to be addressed and change needs to take place on a cultural level.

I had a friend of mine say that for him shooting was a sport where he could de-stress by going to the range. That's all well and good except that you don't need a real deadly weapon to de-stress when there's paint-ball, nerf, live action role play, super soakers and video games where you can get out any violence or aggression... now someone might say those things aren't quite the same, they don't carry the same adrenaline rush or have the same cathartic effect but I'm guessing driving a Nascar around a track might be better than driving your regular old street car, doesn't mean every American is entitled to the Nascar car just because it gives a better rush.

All of this is culturally tied together, we have a populace where some people are way over-medicated and some way under medicated, we have a media that feeds into anger and division and glorifies mass shootings by giving the shooters their moments of fame, we have a militarized police force with some very bad eggs who pull the trigger/use force way too often and we have a culture which is saturated with the glorification of guns telling people guns are the God given right of every American.

For me the answer is cultural, we need to beat it into everyone's head that if you own a gun it is a HUGE HUGE HUGE responsibility. We're talking about a weapon designed specifically to kill humans and other animals. The 2nd Amendment talks about a well-regulated militia, it is not anyone's right to just own whatever kind of gun they want for whatever reason they want.

If only she'd been armed..... Eh?

originally posted by: Titen-Sxull
a reply to: zerozero00

Attitudes need to change before these incidents will stop

This right here is the biggest factor in this whole gun safety gun control discussion.

Sure we can have tougher laws but they won't stop the bloodshed until America addresses its dangerous gun fetish. Whenever I talk to gun owners they always have this knee jerk "get your hands off my guns" and "I can have whatever kind of gun I want, I'm an American" reaction. The American erection for guns needs to be addressed and change needs to take place on a cultural level.

I had a friend of mine say that for him shooting was a sport where he could de-stress by going to the range. That's all well and good except that you don't need a real deadly weapon to de-stress when there's paint-ball, nerf, live action role play, super soakers and video games where you can get out any violence or aggression... now someone might say those things aren't quite the same, they don't carry the same adrenaline rush or have the same cathartic effect but I'm guessing driving a Nascar around a track might be better than driving your regular old street car, doesn't mean every American is entitled to the Nascar car just because it gives a better rush.

All of this is culturally tied together, we have a populace where some people are way over-medicated and some way under medicated, we have a media that feeds into anger and division and glorifies mass shootings by giving the shooters their moments of fame, we have a militarized police force with some very bad eggs who pull the trigger/use force way too often and we have a culture which is saturated with the glorification of guns telling people guns are the God given right of every American.

For me the answer is cultural, we need to beat it into everyone's head that if you own a gun it is a HUGE HUGE HUGE responsibility. We're talking about a weapon designed specifically to kill humans and other animals. The 2nd Amendment talks about a well-regulated militia, it is not anyone's right to just own whatever kind of gun they want for whatever reason they want.

Amazing with all the weapons in my place, plus kids raised, etc. I've never had an issue. If the gun was the problem it would be across the board, or the majority of gun owners would have the same problem. But neither is true. People problem, not gun problem.