Is Moral Decline a myth?

I wanted to post a poll about this, not sure how to do that.
But I do welcome your comments and explanations for your beliefs.
Is moral decline in the Western world a real thing to be worried about, and worry about our children's and grandchildrens future, or is this a social construct created by the religious right to demonise liberalism and enforce their values upon the populace?
Are the Ten Commandments still valid as moral laws, or is human nature and human conscience inherently good and in no need of moral laws?
Or do you thing that the human condition is in decline and is manifesting in depraved and sordid behaviour because of it?
Does the elite actually reward the most depraved and immoral people and use moral laws to keep the rest of us in servitude and prevent us from rebelling against them? Is it this dog eat dog, Machiavellian mind set which gives the elite or "illuminati" their power, whilst all along they use laws and religion to control our morality?
What of the human rights abuses such as slavery and oppression of women, which are supported by religion?
Was there ever a Golden Age when kids could play out in the street and you could leave your doors unlocked or is this just a case of wistful, magical thinking?

a reply to: Antidisestablishment

Was there ever a Golden Age when kids could play out in the street and you could leave your doors unlocked or is this just a case of wistful, magical thinking?

Yah, Golden Age, sadly. We played outside all the time, hide and seek past dark. Ran the foothills, gobs of kids on Halloween, trick or treating till the cows came home.

There were eggings, waterballoons, rubber band fights and the occasional scraped elbow or knee… terrifying.

a reply to: intrptr

Give me the name (s) of any high school kid these days that jumped the creek, fell out of a tree, mowed their neighbors lawn, ate something they grew in the yard or rides their bike to and from school/work.... likes to play outside kickball, flag football....... you get my point. ......

originally posted by: Antidisestablishment
Is moral decline in the Western world a real thing to be worried about, and worry about our children's and grandchildrens future, or is this a social construct created by the religious right to demonise liberalism and enforce their values upon the populace?

The US IS in decline, but I'm not sure it has to do with morals. I do think that the whole "morals in decline" construct is a boogieman, created by the religious right to manipulate the people. But that's what religion has always been, IMO. It's not our morals that are in decline, it's combination of creeping greed, "corporate welfare", inability to care about what happens 5 years from now, and loss of compassion for others that, I believe, should be our greatest concerns.

If I had children or grandchildren, I would certainly be concerned about their future, but it would be more about the Earth's ability to sustain and support the ravaging we have been administering to it in the past 50 years or so.

Are the Ten Commandments still valid as moral laws, or is human nature and human conscience inherently good and in no need of moral laws?

The 10 commandments aren't valid to me, but kindness, compassion, and generosity are. If we pay attention to our own inherent moral code, we won't be stealing, killing or lying to people. Much more relevant is the Golden Rule, which is the common sense of any civilized society.

Unfortunately, we human beings are just another animal on this earth and we act in ways that don't make sense. We've gotten so far away from nature and the natural order because we live in our heads and rationalize the way we treat other people.

What of the human rights abuses such as slavery and oppression of women, which are supported by religion?

That shows the morals don't come from religion. Religion is a disease on the land, IMO. But it's not religion's fault. Religion is just an idea. It's the people, practicing greed, "corporate welfare", short-term vision, and loss of compassion for others that is ruining (or has ruined) the good name of religion. And will, I believe, take down the species.

Was there ever a Golden Age when kids could play out in the street and you could leave your doors unlocked

There was such a time. I was lucky enough to live in it. And I don't think we'll see that again. It's possible, but too many people are unwilling to change their staunch positions and let down their walls and judgments. Too many people think they know it all and are in love with power and control.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
It's not our morals that are in decline, it's combination of creeping greed, "corporate welfare", inability to care about what happens 5 years from now, and loss of compassion for others that, I believe, should be our greatest concerns.

Aside from the corporate welfare, how are those *not* a decline in morals?

EDIT: the corporate welfare could be argued as a decline in education for the people to recognize government acting outside its boundaries.

it is a myth. There are still places where kids play outside at all hours of the day. I live in a neighborhood where we have hundreds of trick or treaters and dozens of kids at the park.

You can go to almost any river here in texas and see kids swinging off the same ropes their parents did. There have always been safe places and unsafe places. People still know right from wrong. Our culture changes but people have the choice to which ideals enslave them.

My cousin just entered college and through herr teen years her guy friends built my fence, helped me move, mowed my mothers lawn, i went camping with her several times, they tubed, they shot bow and arrows and climbed trees.

when we went to Colorado we slid on the ice and had snowball fights. Kids are still kids guys they just have Instagram lol.

Generally I don't think there is any sort of conspiracy or any sort of loss of morals. Lots of time people talk of "good ol' days" but what they don't say is that it was terrible then too ha ha. no generation or time has been without scandal or weaknesses. Same stuff different outfits.

The point is we remain mindful and grow and continue to improve for posterity.
I also feel that this is the best time for a child to grow up. They won't likely suffer from other debilitating diseases past generations did, or work in factories, they can get an education and pursue whatever they feel called to, they can marry who they want...life's good ya'll.

originally posted by: Antidisestablishment

Is moral decline in the Western world a real thing to be worried about, and worry about our children's and grandchildrens future, or is this a social construct created by the religious right to demonise liberalism and enforce their values upon the populace?

Morality is subjective. Therefor everyone uses it how they want, in any direction they want. Since there isn't a concrete standard from which to refer it's a relatively simple means to use for world view imposition.

Granted, the religious right loves using this tool, but they are far from the only group who does. Pick your favorite topic and there'll be a warrior championing the moral compass. From racism to animal rights it's all there. That's not to say that there aren't important issues, but then again, what's important to you may not be important to me........ Subjective

IMHO there is no moral decline. Nothing new under the sun. The technology has changed but us humans haven't. We've killed, raped, pillaged, plundered, and exploited for thousands of years, and it appears we will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. The only difference is our access to knowing about these things. One hundred years ago you wouldn't hear about half of the tragedies occurring yet they were there.

originally posted by: EvalynnAmbra
it is a myth. There are still places where kids play outside at all hours of the day. I live in a neighborhood where we have hundreds of trick or treaters and dozens of kids at the park.

You can go to almost any river here in texas and see kids swinging off the same ropes their parents did. There have always been safe places and unsafe places. People still know right from wrong. Our culture changes but people have the choice to which ideals enslave them.

My cousin just entered college and through herr teen years her guy friends built my fence, helped me move, mowed my mothers lawn, i went camping with her several times, they tubed, they shot bow and arrows and climbed trees.

when we went to Colorado we slid on the ice and had snowball fights. Kids are still kids guys they just have Instagram lol.

Generally I don't think there is any sort of conspiracy or any sort of loss of morals. Lots of time people talk of "good ol' days" but what they don't say is that it was terrible then too ha ha. no generation or time has been without scandal or weaknesses. Same stuff different outfits.

The point is we remain mindful and grow and continue to improve for posterity.
I also feel that this is the best time for a child to grow up. They won't likely suffer from other debilitating diseases past generations did, or work in factories, they can get an education and pursue whatever they feel called to, they can marry who they want...life's good ya'll.

Exactly, Evalynn.
Well said.

Also well said Benevolent....




My own input... A little rhyme...

The Irony, Society Is Brainwashed...
It's Why These Paid Off Tyrants, Keep Reminding Me Of Adolf...

There's more but less relevant to the subject matter.


TL;DR
The moral decline starts with leadership...
And it seems the Right Wing Regressive Movement is determined to go back to tribal communities instead of attempt a possible utopia.

Attempt being the operative word.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
It's not our morals that are in decline, it's combination of creeping greed, "corporate welfare", inability to care about what happens 5 years from now, and loss of compassion for others that, I believe, should be our greatest concerns.

Aside from the corporate welfare, how are those *not* a decline in morals?

I guess it depends on what we specify as morals. Most people complaining about a loss of morals these days point to scantily-clad women, sex, gay people being "out" and marrying, the fall from the church, swearing, and so on. I'm not in the least concerned about those things and I don't consider them moral issues. The OP's tie in of the 10 Commandments to morality is why I answered the way I did.

To me, greed, selfishness, self-obsession, hatred, judgment, lack of compassion, closed-mindedness ARE moral issues, but I didn't think that's what the OP meant. Maybe I misunderstood.

I hope that's clearer.

a reply to: EvalynnAmbra

Thanks for that perspective, glad theres still places like I grew up.

My cousin just entered college and through herr teen years her guy friends built my fence, helped me move, mowed my mothers lawn, i went camping with her several times, they tubed, they shot bow and arrows and climbed trees.

when we went to Colorado we slid on the ice and had snowball fights. Kids are still kids guys they just have Instagram lol.

Thats some community, you know how much all that costs nowadays? Less people can afford vacations, camping, let alone college, free moving and fence building.

Now, we're off to Colorado to play in the snow…

I'm with BH, US is in decline in many respects, but our values and beliefs have changed, so conventional morals are questioned and weighted differently. I think modern life is far too complex to stick to a simple moral code. I have to act differently, talk differently, move differently, feign feelings differently, dumb myself down or not, and so forth depending on the situation. Besides that, how I internally weigh circumstance depends on context in the moment and over time, in person and how they interact with figures afar, I would be terribly ineffective and inefficient to stick to a simple moral code and would likely be very insane even attempting with all that goes on through my life.

I live in a bit of a bubble area, but for me it feels very weird and not real compared to the rest of the region. There's a lot of monies, and some people even leave their cars running with nobody inside blaring music to walk into a store. It's tempting, hehe... I'd rather not live too richie or poor, but in between. What is weirding a lot of people out in this area is how rapidly it's becoming trashy, and I have to agree. I used to live a few miles south and that area was great, but got trashed about 20-25 years after the new construction. I'ts happening to this area the same after about 10-15 years. Maybe a quickening of decline, or simply that there's too much movement in Texas right now.

I've lived in some crappy areas over time and me being me I've left the front door wide open on the way to work many times, or when was younger staggered home and left the keys in the front door (also have car keys attached) so anybody could have stolen my car too.

Not once has anybody ever taken advantage and for supposedly high crime areas I found it strange.

Yes I agree I have been lucky not to be burgled etc but it does make me believe the chances of being a victim of crime in most areas is much lower than the MSM/PTB would have you believe.

In the UK so may be worse elsewhere but if you asked locals about the areas I was living in they would say you should be heavily locked up at home due to the high crime in area so I would guess the same applies in a lot of supposedly dangerous areas.

originally posted by: Antidisestablishment
I wanted to post a poll about this, not sure how to do that.
But I do welcome your comments and explanations for your beliefs.
Is moral decline in the Western world a real thing to be worried about, and worry about our children's and grandchildrens future, or is this a social construct created by the religious right to demonise liberalism and enforce their values upon the populace?
Are the Ten Commandments still valid as moral laws, or is human nature and human conscience inherently good and in no need of moral laws?
Or do you thing that the human condition is in decline and is manifesting in depraved and sordid behaviour because of it?
Does the elite actually reward the most depraved and immoral people and use moral laws to keep the rest of us in servitude and prevent us from rebelling against them? Is it this dog eat dog, Machiavellian mind set which gives the elite or "illuminati" their power, whilst all along they use laws and religion to control our morality?
What of the human rights abuses such as slavery and oppression of women, which are supported by religion?
Was there ever a Golden Age when kids could play out in the street and you could leave your doors unlocked or is this just a case of wistful, magical thinking?

Good post and question.

I think that the so-called former moral times is a myth largely.

1) Sex.
There have been studies conducted going back I believe to the 50's that show that the average age of virginity lost is still basically the same, as are the rates of pre-marital sex. It's just that back then you couldn't talk about it.

Similarly, homosexual behavior and relationships are documented in virtually every major civilization going back to ancient times. And, in many, such relationships were accepted (Rome, Greece, China, a number of Native American civs, etc).

2) Alcohol and partying. There is plenty of evidence that before the 20th century people drank and imbibed all kinds of substances. There is substantial evidence that many western countries saw HEAVIER drinking prior to the modern age. During the late middle ages, I read in a book that the average beer consumption per person including children was something like a gallon per day in Britain.

During the Elizabethan and Victorian Ages tons of people were taking drugs of all kinds, including opium, marijuana, and later coc aine. An archaeological dig in Shakespeare's property found pipes with marijuana residue.

3) As far as mass atrocities, from conquest to genocide to slavery, I think ye olde folks have it over us. Until the 20th century, there weren't the Geneva Conventions, nor human rights conventions, etc etc. People had no compunction in regard to slavery, conquest, and genocide. So, morals have actually improved in this realm. Even early 20th century saw much more acceptance for total war, including the first two world wars.

Ancient times were brutal.

4) Murder rates. The murder rates per capita have been falling steadily. In older times the rates were actually much higher, even up to recently.


This is why facts, data, and historical knowledge are so key. Many religious people or conservatives harken back to an ostensible, often religious, golden age, not based on facts, but ideology.

Quite simply, it's a myth.

Every generation's traditionalists lament change as "moral decline." There's even a term for it — the Golden Age Fallacy. You can find examples of it everywhere: Garden of Eden, Camelot, Revolutionary War era, 1950's, etc.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Good answer. The folks who shout the loudest about moral decline also happen to be mostly right wing zealots who want to point the finger at anyone except themselves. It's even debatable that what they consider "God's Laws" are anything other than mans laws put in place to justify what they do. It doesn't protect anyone, and condemns a lot more.

Why should anyone be outraged about gay marriage when there are so many terrible things going on in the world? Isn't genocide, terrorism, bankers bonuses and the rape of the environment much more sinful?

As an aside tho, I am concerned about the paedophile agenda behind the sexualisation of children, we are seeing here in the UK how entrenched this is in the establishment. But these are the people who make "the laws" so that puts them above the law. Look at the Jimmy Savile case for proof of that.

a reply to: EvalynnAmbra

In general, those are still places with a strong moral backbone.

They are small town America and sneeringly referred to as backward or quaint by sophisticated city folk.

a reply to: ketsuko

Although, these backwoodsy places hold a lot of secrets. There might not be any thing visible on the surface, but terrible things going on underneath. Much like the Duggar family.

originally posted by: Antidisestablishment
As an aside tho, I am concerned about the paedophile agenda behind the sexualisation of children, we are seeing here in the UK how entrenched this is in the establishment.

I don't really know what you mean by "the paedophile agenda behind the sexualisation of children". Is it similar to the US? I don't see what I would call sexualization of children here.

originally posted by: ketsuko
They are small town America and sneeringly referred to as backward or quaint by sophisticated city folk.

I was born in a small town and I live in one now. It's definitely the way to go.

a reply to: Antidisestablishment
I don't believe it is a moral decline, but I believe is its the parents and technology, with all the BS going on in the world its easier today to sit the kids down in front of a computer or TV and let them play indoors, and the parents are fine with that, because they don't want there kids to be outside because of all the weirdo's running around.

My brother-in-law once comment to me about my kids when we went visiting to his house in a large city, that when he drove through the neighborhood there were no kids out play until he reached his house and saw my two boys playing, he said that there are dozens of kids but the parents don't want them outside.

I also believe that it is in the location that you live in, in rural areas you will find more kids outside playing, than within a city.

Back in the day, I could not wait for the weekend to come, since I would have two whole days to play outside until the street lights came on (if they did)

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

As to sexualization of children or decline of morals, try comparing the old Muppet Show of the '70s with the new version. Compare the jokes and themes.

While they say that these are not targeted at children, understand that they are shown in prime time slots when families are watching TV.