Existence is strange.

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It is the 'I' that claims that it 'has' a life.
The ego is the rich man who will never enter heaven.
Heaven is revealed when life is found to be all there is - there is no one who has life.

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I am worried for believers if things in the bible turn out to be based on truth but not the truth they think it is.
Since the 70s, I have been interested in previous civilisations before ours. There is so much evidence, I can not post any here, you have to delve in yourself and do some research and it takes ages, because you have to separate the wheat from the chaff, which takes scientific knowledge of what is and what isn't possible.

We have been created [read genetically modified] by more advanced creatures. We are made in their image because they used their DNA to get us out of the 'monkey' stage. Everything in the bible points to this in it's clumsy old fashioned writing.
To me if we are made for their amusement, I don't read anything nice into that.

This is based on old texts that describe these beings as very human in their goals [greed, abuse, but also emotions and empathy by some - read: ENOCH].

They ruled humans for a while and amazed us idiot monkeys with their technology [ read: Arc of the covenant - a still mystic object that is held in a specifically modified building and is guarded by guys who seem to contract a lot of cataracts doing so...I digress].
They also seem to have been a war faring, angry lot as stories [paintings and findings of craters plus skeletons that suggest a massive explosion, I am trying to keep it short] around the world.


I really buy that, it makes sense, we are finding more and more evidence for this, which is 100% more evidence than that for a ghost god, that is invisible, omnipotent and has the ability to listen to every single one of us, yet refuses to even give circumstantial evidence [visions are not evidence, as they are manufactured by our very intricate brains] . With today's knowledge the old writing doesn't seem so mysterious any longer. If you read the bible with an older, wiser people in mind, it suddenly all makes sense.

Who were they? Are they aliens or human? I have no idea, we have to keep digging to find out more. But we are making good strides.

If my beliefs above were true, then why are we conscious?

Well, I don't know. I can explain how consciousness can develop as a side effect of neural communications in order to enhance survival. Maybe our memory isn't even stored in the brain, as some neuroscientists seem to wake up to. Making the brain merely a receiver and a converter.

That alone would be awsome. Maybe our consciousness can survive but without brain it will take on a different 'language' as the data will be raw. Will we be aware of that? Again I have no idea.
All I know is that quantum physics and history and science is more than convincing me to follow that rout before I go with invisible sky daddy, who seems to be angry all the time unless people do what it tells them to.

I am very spiritual, I have seen ghosts, I had a lot of strange experiences relating to those passed over to the other side, yet the logical part of my brain can explain all of these without the need of an overseer. I strongly believe that ESP or other seemingly supernatural events can one day be explained by science.

Consciousness could just be a fluke, as I once ceased to exist for about an hour under anasthetic. I honestly wasn't in existence, not asleep, not dreaming, not out of it, just non existent. Like a switched off computer. I was off line, then I was switched on again but where was I?

I will never, ever just put faith in the man made interpretation of the bible. As a seeker of truth, I can not let that happen. Even my own belief can change at any time, with more information available. Religion doesn't allow for that and therefore it is doomed from the start.

a reply to: namelesss

I kinda look your definition of loosing ego, thought etc as aiming for a vegetative state so perhaps we have a different understanding of ego, but I will explain how I see it.

We cannot deny our physical side (our id, ego, thoughts, concepts etc) in the hope that it triggers spiritual enlightenment because both our physical and spiritual sides are our true nature. So rather than kill one for the other we have to accept the duality and unite both into one. To accomplish that task we need to nurture our spiritual desire so it overwhelms all egoistic desires. Then the stronger egoistic desires should wither out on their own accord.

For example when we meditate to the point that we cannot detect our own breathing, we shouldn't be perceiving the constant barrage of thought from the brain. The more we meditate the quieter the brain becomes, so the more subtle images from our spiritual nature, shine through. By meditating we are not destroying thought, we are balancing one with the other, so thought doesn't overwhelm our spiritual nature.

it sounds like your ideology is strange, and not existence. I'm not sure what, if anything, you guys are talking about in regards to existence.

a reply to: vethumanbeing


Well if it aint the Veteran, of zee human speeshee…lol

Greetings…

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
There should be only one truth shining bright.

Yes, it (the truth) should be shinning bright; it’s just proving to be highly elusive, for the human to locate… the puzzle pieces are all out there though, just waiting to be put together coherently…(“your mission should you choose to accept it” type deal)

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
All religion is metaphorical. Poetry. Self interpreted/unique to the individual it is speaking to.

This reminds me of the Templar knights Creed/Oaths, specifically oaths 3____ and 7____ (fill in the blanks)…. I managed to find a book printed in 1838, which outlines some of the finer details; very enlightening…


Peace…


- JC

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Exactly, because only dead fishes swim down the river...

Not sure they swim; just float rotting away to feed the ecosystem downstream (ALL GOOD). As a horse owner I smile every time I see your avatar (hilarious). The dream 4-H project manifested (has to show up at a county fair).

originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Joecroft: Well if it aint the Veteran, of zee human speeshee…lol
Greetings.

VHB:There should be only one truth shining bright.

Joecroft: Yes, it (the truth) should be shinning bright; it’s just proving to be highly elusive, for the human to locate… the puzzle pieces are all out there though, just waiting to be put together coherently…(“your mission should you choose to accept it” type deal)

It hides on purpose; as the grand joke (seek enough you shall find truth or die trying) more a perpetual hide and seek scenario. Its OK I am very patient.

VHB: All religion is metaphorical. Poetry. Self interpreted/unique to the individual it is speaking to.

Joecroft: This reminds me of the Templar knights Creed/Oaths, specifically oaths 3____ and 7____ (fill in the blanks)…. I managed to find a book printed in 1838, which outlines some of the finer details; very enlightening…
Peace…- JC

That is outstanding YYY a gift dropped onto your lap/given to you apparently occurring at the right time. Are you speaking of the degrees? 3; being Master Mason (representing the wisdom of old age) 7; as Provost and Judge (teaches the importance of compassionate justice relating to the appointment of judges to resolve disputes)? That was a teaser, what do you know I do not? Great to hear from you always fun.

Does a 7 month old fetus, kicking mommy, responding emotionally to her voice, not have a soul?

To be honest, the concept of soul doesn't make sense to me. All I see is a consciousness that 'emerges' in a body, beginning very tacitly, and then becoming progressively more complex, building towards deeper degrees of self-awareness and a sense of moral obligation and expectation from others.

Why should 'breathing' air be the time that the 'soul' comes in? That's so arbitrary - childish even. A living being is already conscious in the womb. At the affective level, in feelings, the brainstem is already recording movements and sensations.

So when does life begin? You could really say it never really stops: since the beginning of life, creatures have been propagating themselves for hundreds of millions of years. The sperm and egg, as gametes, merge and 'react' with one another to create the same chemical conditions for reproduction! Incredible!

Consciousness, in itself, seems real. But whether we exist as 'individual' units? Right now, yes. When we die, probably not. The sense of individuality derives from the brain and the body.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

You possess the gift of love. And if you choose to embrace your
creator with it under these diverse conditions of this existence?

You've made him smile pal.

Now I don't know about you. But I could build a life around doing that.

a reply to: Astrocyte
Life is there prior to birth.
'Your' birth - 'your individual self' does not begin until around 18 months.
Watch this very interesting video where it is explained how life appears to separate.

What is it that is 'born'?

a reply to: glend

For example when we meditate to the point that we cannot detect our own breathing, we shouldn't be perceiving the constant barrage of thought from the brain. The more we meditate the quieter the brain becomes, so the more subtle images from our spiritual nature, shine through. By meditating we are not destroying thought, we are balancing one with the other, so thought doesn't overwhelm our spiritual nature.

You are what is perceiving - it does not matter what thoughts appear - thoughts appear and they are like clouds in the sky - they do not do anything - and you have no control over them. Even if a thought argues with another thought, that thought is not done by you. You are not the thoughts and you are not doing thought - you are what knows that there is thought.
Thought can be very seductive - it speaks as if you are the thinker - thought says 'I thought that' but you did not think it - you noticed that there was a thought.

Spirit is no thing - spirit is the space in which all things arise.

originally posted by: glend


We cannot deny our physical side (our id, ego, thoughts, concepts etc) in the hope that it triggers spiritual enlightenment because both our physical and spiritual sides are our true nature.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
It hides on purpose; as the grand joke (seek enough you shall find truth or die trying) more a perpetual hide and seek scenario. Its OK I am very patient.

It’s a perpetual love affair, we move away from (knowing) it, because out of love, we’re free to be free; (roam around)… and then through love and seeking truth, we come back home to the Father again…(The Parable of the Prodigal Son)

Originally posted by Joecroft
This reminds me of the Templar knights Creed/Oaths, specifically oaths 3____ and 7____ (fill in the blanks)…. I managed to find a book printed in 1838, which outlines some of the finer details; very enlightening…

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
That is outstanding YYY a gift dropped onto your lap/given to you apparently occurring at the right time.

Yes, it is outstanding, in more ways than one. I went to my local philosophical library; typed in the word “Templars” into the computer search vacility, and only one!!! book came up…A book on the “London Templar Church”…

Gave the Lady attendant the code, and off she went, up to the vaults (up some ladders, (rather fitting) to go fetch it down)…She said it was too old to leave the building, (reference only)…

As I was pouring through the pages, feeling like Nick Cage in a “National Treasure” movie; the book appeared to be mainly about the achitecture of the London Templar church; with lots of art work, on Arches, Gargoyles and Spiral Staircases etc…

Then a noticed a few chapters which discussed some of the sacred oaths of the Templar Knights, and even some key Biblical verses in relation to them; which naturally sparked my interest…

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Are you speaking of the degrees? 3; being Master Mason (representing the wisdom of old age) 7; as Provost and Judge (teaches the importance of compassionate justice relating to the appointment of judges to resolve disputes)?

No, not the degrees, (but thanks, never knew those 2 above) but the actual literal spoken oaths; I’ve never seen them written in any book before, anywhere…


Specifically 3 and 7…here below…

(3) “Denial of the Koran and all other sacred scriptures without exception”

(7) “The allegorical interpretation of the Koran and All other prophetical or sacred scriptures”

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
That was a teaser, what do you know I do not? Great to hear from you always fun.

“What do I know you do not”…? Hmmm the eternal question lol… you once asked me something similar via u2u, and I had to use level 100 in diplomacy skill, to save both our egos lol…

On this particular topic you probably know more than myself, I kind of bypassed the degrees, and knew nothing about the spoken oaths, until very recently that is…


- JC

originally posted by: Astrocyte

Astrocyte:
Does a 7 month old fetus, kicking mommy, responding emotionally to her voice, not have a soul?
To be honest, the concept of soul doesn't make sense to me. All I see is a consciousness that 'emerges' in a body, beginning very tacitly, and then becoming progressively more complex, building towards deeper degrees of self-awareness and a sense of moral obligation and expectation from others.

Usually the soul/spirit enters at birth (cry of despair) "what have I done". It is very rare a spirit agrees to be locked into a confined space (womb) during gestation. The soul entity is too smart for that (been waiting for that human form for years to manifest within).

Astrocyte: Why should 'breathing' air be the time that the 'soul' comes in? That's so arbitrary - childish even. A living being is already conscious in the womb. At the affective level, in feelings, the brainstem is already recording movements and sensations.

Because at that point you decide you are not an amphibian/lizard. The living being is just a gestating form in that environment (it has no feelings otherwise the torture of that environment would cause a still birth).

originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: vethumanbeing

vhb:
It hides on purpose; as the grand joke (seek enough you shall find truth or die trying) more a perpetual hide and seek scenario. Its OK I am very patient.

Joecroft: It’s a perpetual love affair, we move away from (knowing) it, because out of love, we’re free to be free; (roam around)… and then through love and seeking truth, we come back home to the Father again…(The Parable of the Prodigal Son)

Infuriating but somehow consoling as one does not do this alone (just thinks the quest is one of a personal nature) their is always a superior guiding hand.

Joecroft:
This reminds me of the Templar knights Creed/Oaths, specifically oaths 3____ and 7____ (fill in the blanks)…. I managed to find a book printed in 1838, which outlines some of the finer details; very enlightening…

vhb:
That is outstanding YYY a gift dropped onto your lap/given to you apparently occurring at the right time.

Yes, it is outstanding, in more ways than one. I went to my local philosophical library; typed in the word “Templars” into the computer search vacility, and only one!!! book came up…A book on the “London Templar Church”…

Joecroft: Gave the Lady attendant the code, and off she went, up to the vaults (up some ladders, (rather fitting) to go fetch it down)…She said it was too old to leave the building, (reference only)…

As I was pouring through the pages, feeling like Nick Cage in a “National Treasure” movie; the book appeared to be mainly about the achitecture of the London Templar church; with lots of art work, on Arches, Gargoyles and Spiral Staircases etc…

London temple? This describes the "RosyCross" further north.

Joecroft: Then a noticed a few chapters which discussed some of the sacred oaths of the Templar Knights, and even some key Biblical verses in relation to them; which naturally sparked my interest…

Book of Enoch, or Gospel of Thomas sort of thing?

vhb:
Are you speaking of the degrees? 3; being Master Mason (representing the wisdom of old age) 7; as Provost and Judge (teaches the importance of compassionate justice relating to the appointment of judges to resolve disputes)?

Joecroft: No, not the degrees, (but thanks, never knew those 2 above) but the actual literal spoken oaths; I’ve never seen them written in any book before, anywhere


Specifically 3 and 7…here below…

(3) “Denial of the Koran and all other sacred scriptures without exception”

(7) “The allegorical interpretation of the Koran and All other prophetical or sacred scriptures”

Lets just keep this our secret; yes the Crusades (Knights Templar leading) action in the Middle East (Jerusalem) was for that very specific quest/destruction of.

Joecroft: “What do I know you do not”…? Hmmm the eternal question lol… you once asked me something similar via u2u, and I had to use level 100 in diplomacy skill, to save both our egos lol…
On this particular topic you probably know more than myself, I kind of bypassed the degrees, and knew nothing about the spoken oaths, until very recently that is…

- JC

I bypassed many steps using the Quabala mystery school teachings succeeded and I still breathe. There is that thread "ask a mason" will answer anything; just cannot do it. I have knowledge of all of the degrees if interested.

Usually the soul/spirit enters at birth (cry of despair) "what have I done"

Ok... I don't know if this is theology or mysticism, but you don't have any actual evidence beyond a) having been told this b) having read this.

Do you not think it is more plausible that you believe this and wish to share this knowledge because

You want to feel Good?

This is how life works ^^ This "knowledge" you wish to share, although coherent-sounding and meaningful to you, seems to me to be a fantasy, something you unconsciously "need" to control how you feel.

But - however - you should also ruminate on this fact: most people do not understand this way of thinking because it lacks an important level of psychological awareness: of how human beings - as well as other animals - act, ultimately, to defend themselves. This sensibility enables us to think logically and also consider the plausibility of something: whats plausible, should, in reality, be probable, that is, should be considered common occurring enough or within the limitations of space and time to stand-out as 'expectable', and therefore a reasonable place to begin.

Also, evolution is a basic idea that everyone should learn to think with: our emotions are adaptations to negative environmental influences designed to motivate us to perform a certain self-protective action.

a reply to: Astrocyte
This knowledge is something I am aware of is all; not a proponent or advocate; just sharing another idea 'WHAT DOES THIS MEAN"?

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

All I really have are my own theories about existence, and to that extent I can share with you some idiosyncrasies...

In terms of ones creation, why would you, if you were God, create anything at all?

Lets say that you could, you could fashion an entire soul, there are many reasons for doing such:

1) For the sake of company
2) As a matter of purpose
3) For a selfless reason

Lets take number 1, if you are God, "in the beginning", then you manifest other beings so that you are not alone.
Lets take number 2, you might need to utilise "servants" so that you could expand your ability to create other things.
Lets take number 3, you might want to just add to existence other beings that you can joyfully watch experiencing themselves.

Now we turn to friends, so i'll answer:

1) A selfless deed generally, that one time one of your acquaintances needed help, you provided, and this created a bond of trust between two individuals.
2) What we really look for in such relationships are mutual dependence, something you can do that your friend cannot, and something that your friend can do that you cannot, and as a result of being friends, both can then have what they want in that regard. Secondly, friends are also a source of security, a "safety in numbers" when we face the world around us.
3) What keeps you together would be a point in time, an exchange that bound you together with your friend, something that can never be forgotten.