Existence is strange.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Apparently you think the world was the same 3,500 years ago and that the same laws that govern mankind today would have been appropriate then.

And you also seem to struggle with metaphors.

originally posted by: dffrntkndfnml

Perhaps God is just expressing itself? Like an artist?

I have contemplated this at times. But I guess I like to think that I am the one witnessing the work of the artist. Of course some could argue in essence we are saying the same thing.

originally posted by: Isurrender73

originally posted by: dffrntkndfnml

Perhaps God is just expressing itself? Like an artist?

I have contemplated this at times. But I guess I like to think that I am the one witnessing the work of the artist. Of course some could argue in essence we are saying the same thing.

God is what is seeing/knowing what he paints.
Or God is smelling his own fart!!

God is the witness - he is just watching the show.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Please only speak for your god.
Mine is
The eternal flame of love, burns without consumption,
part of all living things, but not like anything,
he is the Lord of time.😇

a reply to: Peeple
There is no personal God because there is no separate persons - there is just God.
Separateness is an illusion - there is just God.
God is all there is - God is the all seeing all knowing presence - he is seeing his own manifestation.

You will never know God because God is what is knowing.

a reply to: Isurrender73

So your trying to claim that it makes sense, that a highly enlightened entity who created the entire universe, 'used' to be a misogynist who promoted rape and torture. But then just changed his mind and decided it was evil, just 3,000 years later?

Clearly, you haven't devoted much time pondering this warped logic.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: charlyv

So we exist for the sake of the universe's existence?

Do you exist for the sake of a dreams existence?
Are you the stuff that dreams are made of?

The universe appears to exist just like a dream appears to exist but right now, where is the universe? The 'universe' does not actually appear - only what can be seen, heard, smelled, tasted or sensed appears - 'the 'universe' appears in the mental dreamscape made of concepts and ideas.
Dreaming is happening and dreams happen within the dreaming - a dream of separation which produces the illusion of separate things in time and space.
There is no time or space - there is just dreaming.

a reply to: namelesss

It appears that you cannot stand the critical thought of philosophical examination.

But you didn't provide any, you just berated another persons belief system without reason. Personally I see Christianity as just another expression of Buddhism, Jesus the son is Atman, the Father is Brahman and the Holy Ghost is Shakti which explains why Christians say Jesus was GOD because Jesus reached the enlightened stage of Brahman the Father. But like the Torah, many metaphors have hidden meanings so its easy to dismiss if you don't take the time to study and understand its deeper intent. Peace and love.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
a reply to: Isurrender73

So your trying to claim that it makes sense, that a highly enlightened entity who created the entire universe, 'used' to be a misogynist who promoted rape and torture. But then just changed his mind and decided it was evil, just 3,000 years later?

Clearly, you haven't devoted much time pondering this warped logic.

I am going to use slavery as an example for how ruthless man was and how the law evolves.

Think about it like this. If mankind chooses to enslave other men and believes they have a right to kill the slaves without punishment. With no law they are free to kill the slaves without punishment.

Then a law is put into place making it illegal to kill a slave. Now the slave might get beaten but not killed.

The next law is to not beat your slaves.
The next law is to free your slaves.
The next law is to give them the right to vote.
The final law is to give them equality.

What I am saying is God doesn't try to radically alter man's ideology. What would the point of freewill be if God forced us to live exactly like he wishes us to live?

Genesis is clear, the image of God is Male/Female. According to Genesis the female nature is one half of God's nature. Male and female are equal. The Israelites refused this interpretation because they were misogynist A-holes 3500 years ago.

What you are reading in the OT are some of the first laws ever written to protect women from men. I agree that some of the laws are absolutely barbaric according to today's standards.

But men have a history of misogynist viewpoints.

Women didn't receive the right to vote until 1920. And spousal abuse didn't get much recognition until my lifetime. The laws are written by men and evolve with man.

I am not saying that the behavior was right or even justified, I am saying that your reading a history book that is honest about the way men treated women. And that talks about a God that decided freewill and nudges in the right direction was how he choose to advance the laws of mankind.

We can all say if we were God we would have done it differently, but we aren't God and it wasn't done differently.

If I were God there would be no such thing as ISIS or genocide, but yet we have ISIS and genocide happening right now in 2015.

a reply to: Isurrender73

Perhaps it's western influence coloring this thread, though the idea of God for me doesn't include wanting or needing anything in particular. My concept of God is flexible, but this brings me back to the artist.

Why paint? Why express anything?Does art require reason?

Maybe because it feels good?

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: namelesss

It appears that you cannot stand the critical thought of philosophical examination.

But you didn't provide any, you just berated another persons belief system without reason. Personally I see Christianity as just another expression of Buddhism, Jesus the son is Atman, the Father is Brahman and the Holy Ghost is Shakti which explains why Christians say Jesus was GOD because Jesus reached the enlightened stage of Brahman the Father. But like the Torah, many metaphors have hidden meanings so its easy to dismiss if you don't take the time to study and understand its deeper intent. Peace and love.

By my observation that a 'belief' exists in the imagination?
By offering my observations on 'beliefs' in general, I am 'berating' his ego?
Yes, that does touch the ego, because 'beliefs' ARE ego!
So I offer what I see, and egos get ruffled.
That is how we grow and learn.
That is how we turn from vain and selfish juveniles into Compassionate and Loving and Honest adults.
It takes the pain of the trashing of the ego, the Breaking of the Heart is the only way it can Love!

All metaphors are still ego, thought/imagination.
Unconditional Love is not a metaphor, cannot be 'conceived'.

"Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes to be true." - Demosthenes

"Be empty of what you know
Your clever mind just whips up
A dust storm of pride.
Allow yourself to be fooled and
peace clowns its way into your heart.

If your head would shatter in wonder
at what Reality really is,
reason’s tyranny would end and
every hair on your head would
become an oracle" - Rumi

That I call the vanity of 'beliefs' what it is, that Pride which blinds us to unconditional Love, can be a very painful 'personal' realization.
Should I not point that out so as to not disturb the egoic imaginary Loveless hellish world that many consider to be their 'life'?

"Do what you know to be right, say what you know to be true, and leave with faith and patience the consequences to god!" - F.W. Robertson

a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

I find myself guilty of shoving God in a box at times. I think we do it because it helps us rationalize our existence.

Of course letting God out of the box is more liberating than keeping him in it. Sometimes it's better to sit in the observation booth and let someone else do the driving. When I can let go of myself enough to be an observer I Iearn the most, but I consider myself quite ignorant.

a reply to: Isurrender73
You must find that you are never anything but the observer - the witness of what is arising.
All that there is is you seeing what there is to see.

You do not do anything - you are the knowing presence - always.

a reply to: Isurrender73
You may think you can shove God in a box because you believe that God is some 'thing' but God is not a 'thing' - God is what is knowing, so is not a 'thing' - God is where everything appears.

a reply to: glend

I think it is the other way around.

But I Imagine Jesus, Buddha and Brahman will forgive us for our ignorance. Since I think it is more about living according to the character of our enlightened teachers then knowing exactly who they were.

Many Christians think that repentance and forgiveness was only taught once. But the Buddhist texts also talk about repenting from sin and entering into union with Brahman, the father.

I think most people grow up fearing other religions because of their indoctrination of only one truth. There is only One Great Vehicle but it is taught in many skilful ways.

a reply to: namelesss

I think you misunderstand ego. Its not an obstacle to enlightenment per se. Its rewarding the EGO that is.The ego wants to turn light into pleasure so we don't need destroy it, only control it. Zen and talk of unlearning everything to learn anew might be one road but its not the only road to enlightenment.

Gospel of Thomas has this gem "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

Its a belief that you might want to ignore as insignificant. That choice is yours, because only you can decide the correct road for your trip.

a reply to: Isurrender73

Many Christians think that repentance and forgiveness was only taught once. But the Buddhist texts also talk about repenting from sin and entering into union with Brahman, the father.

Yes if everyone saw their religions as cars, some faster, some shinier, but all able to get to the destination, then perhaps we wouldn't fight among ourselves as much. But there will always be problems with political forces and jealousy between books, for example Jesus said "The Pharisees (todays Jews) and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so".

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: namelesss
I think you misunderstand ego. Its not an obstacle to enlightenment per se.

I don't think so.
How is 'ego' not the imagination?
All identity', all of 'who' and 'what' we >>>imagine

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: namelesss
I think you misunderstand ego.

I cannot believe that I just spent an hour crafting a beautiful response and lost the entire damned thing somehow!
Well, here's the short version...
No, I do not misunderstand the ego.
Thought/imagination (ego) is all duality and distinctions, identities and limitations.
The natural antithesis to experiencing the unity of the experience of our Universal Self!
We 'believe' the conditional 'self' that we imagine, the "is this" and "is not that" self of the imaginary concept.
All 'identity' and the limitations thereof, exist in 'thought/imagination/ego!


" Its not an obstacle to enlightenment per se. Its rewarding the EGO that is.The ego wants to turn light into pleasure so we don't need destroy it, only control it. "

~~~ 'Control' is another egoic vain notion!
What is, IS! Every moment of Universal existence!
Not a moment, ever, can be 'otherwise'!


"Zen and talk of unlearning everything to learn anew might be one road but its not the only road to enlightenment."

~~~ Never said it was.
I have said that it is a tried and true, very efficacious path!
ALL 'paths' trod diligently and sincerely, converge at the same 'place' of unconditional Love/Enlightenment; the experience of the One Universal Omni- Self!

"Gospel of Thomas has this gem "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom].""

~~~ Very true!
In unconditional Love/Enlightenment, Lover and Beloved are One!
If one Loves the Universe, unconditionally, One becomes Universal!

"Its a belief that you might want to ignore as insignificant. That choice is yours, because only you can decide the correct road for your trip."

~~~ That 'deciding' and that dualistic discrimination of 'correct' (vs incorrect) is all ego!
Every moment of Universal existence already exists, and not a single moment can ever be 'otherwise'!
That 'judgment' (correct...) and the vanity of believing that we 'decide/choose' is just the duality of the imagination!
Schizophrenia is the fragmenting of that which is One!
That is what the ego does!
Yes, it blinds us to the unity of Enlightened unconditional Love!
Thus 'pride' is the only 'sin', for that exact reason! *__-