Confirmed: Police confiscated cell phones from Umpqua students

Victim: "I was just traumatized by witnessing a mass shooting"
Police: "Keep your hands above your heads! No speaking in line!" "We have our weapons trained on you for your own protection" "Hand over your cell phones and car keys along with your locker combination - for your protection"

Uh-huh.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

So if your kids were in that school, you would have wanted the police to just let everybody go home without checking to see if any students were involved? That creates a scenario where a killer is still on the streets. This was not about violating rights, it was about keeping kids safe.

"Well, one shooter is dead, could be more. Everyone, you're free to go!"

No.

originally posted by: LordAhriman
You are some kind of disgusting, disrespectful, and stupid. A bunch of kids lost their lives and all you can think about is "RIGHTS!"

I would have happily given my phone and keys to a law enforcement officer if I were in their shoes, any rational human being would. I have nothing to hide, they're going to find a bunch of penis jokes on my phone, and a bunch of empty energy drink cans in my car. They were trying to ensure the safety of the survivors, not take away anybody's rights.

Had they not taken these steps and a bunch more kids died because they just assumed there was only one guy involved, you would most certainly be complaining that the police should have done more to ensure there were no more shooters.

I deal with your type daily. Cops can do no right in your eyes, damned if they do, damned if they don't. The simply word for people like yourself is, coward.

Really!!!!???

I put my life on the line, put myself in harm's way for those rights. And, just as you show absolutely no respect for my opinion, you show no respect for the rights that were won and secured by 10,000's of lives over the past 239 years. What you don't know is that every day US military place themselves in the path of harm to you and your rights, in the path of harm to this once great country. We fight and die for you and you think we are disgusting!.

You should be deported! You do not deserve this country, and are an enemy of the Constitution!

I have not called anybody "names" though you don't seem to have any issues going there.

Just so you know; I served my country rather well in Viet Nam...how about you? How many young men, kids really, do you know that fell to enemy bullets? I'd wager none...

By the way; statistically speaking, this kind of random attack is done by a single person...perhaps you and the cops should do your homework. Maybe then you can learn how to actually address such threats, how to deal with them without offending the Constitution, and the rights of the public. And in the process raise the level of public security to heights that you don't even dream of.


One final remark: No sir you do not deal with "my kind" daily, nor even at all...And, I usually consider police to be friends...until they demonstrate they are not.

originally posted by: LordAhriman
a reply to: MotherMayEye

So if your kids were in that school, you would have wanted the police to just let everybody go home without checking to see if any students were involved? That creates a scenario where a killer is still on the streets. This was not about violating rights, it was about keeping kids safe.

"Well, one shooter is dead, could be more. Everyone, you're free to go!"

No.

I think they should have had each student text/email/bluetooth any videos to the law enforcement agency, on the spot, and then let them leave with their phones. That way, their privacy is protected to the fullest given all the personal kind of stuff people have on their phones.

But, I guess it's too much to expect law enforcement to think about what they are doing before subjecting people to unlawful search and seizure and the violation of their privacy rights.

a reply to: LordAhriman

I'll jump back in this conversation just to address your post.

I would have happily given my phone and keys to a law enforcement officer if I were in their shoes, any rational human being would. I have nothing to hide, they're going to find a bunch of penis jokes on my phone, and a bunch of empty energy drink cans in my car. They were trying to ensure the safety of the survivors, not take away anybody's rights.

Go ahead and give up your personal effects. That's on you. Don't expect others to give up their property just because you voluntarily gave up yours. They would not be confiscating my cell phone, nor my car keys. I would also not be getting shipped out on a bus, but driving my vehicle home. Makes no difference whether I have nothing to hide. It's my stuff. I'm not the perpetrator, so don't treat me like one.

The simply word for people like yourself is, coward.

I'm afraid you've got that wrong. Those who'd willingly give up their rights and/or expect rights to be forcibly given up, for a little more safety, are the cowards.

my rights supercede someone else's wrongs.

originally posted by: tanka418


Really!!!!???

I put my life on the line, put myself in harm's way for those rights. And, just as you show absolutely no respect for my opinion, you show no respect for the rights that were won and secured by 10,000's of lives over the past 239 years. What you don't know is that every day US military place themselves in the path of harm to you and your rights, in the path of harm to this once great country. We fight and die for you and you think we are disgusting!.

You should be deported! You do not deserve this country, and are an enemy of the Constitution!

I have not called anybody "names" though you don't seem to have any issues going there.

Just so you know; I served my country rather well in Viet Nam...how about you? How many young men, kids really, do you know that fell to enemy bullets? I'd wager none...

By the way; statistically speaking, this kind of random attack is done by a single person...perhaps you and the cops should do your homework. Maybe then you can learn how to actually address such threats, how to deal with them without offending the Constitution, and the rights of the public. And in the process raise the level of public security to heights that you don't even dream of.


One final remark: No sir you do not deal with "my kind" daily, nor even at all...And, I usually consider police to be friends...until they demonstrate they are not.

Try again. I work on a military base, and all but one of my employees are either active duty military or retired. PTSD would certainly explain your paranoia. There IS NO police state agenda. They're just people doing their jobs, and their job at this particular incident was to eliminate any and all threats to prevent any more kids from dying. I thank you for your service, but if you're more concerned about your rights than the lives of innocent kids, I have no respect for you as a person.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

I think they should have had each student text/email/bluetooth any videos to the law enforcement agency, on the spot, and then let them leave with their phones. That way, their privacy is protected to the fullest given all the personal kind of stuff people have on their phones.

But, I guess it's too much to expect law enforcement to think about what they are doing before subjecting people to unlawful search and seizure and the violation of their privacy rights.

Any one of those phones could have contained evidence had the shooter not been working alone. A simple, "NOW" text could reveal more people being involved.

originally posted by: LordAhriman
Any one of those phones could have contained evidence had the shooter not been working alone. A simple, "NOW" text could reveal more people being involved.

And if someone was a suspect they have due process rights. Collecting evidence without cause could (and no doubt would) cause that valuable evidence to be thrown out in court.

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: queenofswords
You are some kind of disgusting, disrespectful, and stupid. A bunch of kids lost their lives and all you can think about is "RIGHTS!"

I would have happily given my phone and keys to a law enforcement officer if I were in their shoes, any rational human being would. I have nothing to hide, they're going to find a bunch of penis jokes on my phone, and a bunch of empty energy drink cans in my car. They were trying to ensure the safety of the survivors, not take away anybody's rights.

Had they not taken these steps and a bunch more kids died because they just assumed there was only one guy involved, you would most certainly be complaining that the police should have done more to ensure there were no more shooters.

I deal with your type daily. Cops can do no right in your eyes, damned if they do, damned if they don't. The simply word for people like yourself is, coward.


Please don't call people names and get so personal here on ATS. It is fine to state your opinion and point of view in a forceful way, but cutting others down for an opposing pov and calling them stupid and coward is another thing.

This brings the quality of ATS way down when new members are allowed to do this.

ETA: I'm sorry, these comments are directed at the wrong member...

They are intended for: LordAhriman


Really!!!!???

I put my life on the line, put myself in harm's way for those rights. And, just as you show absolutely no respect for my opinion, you show no respect for the rights that were won and secured by 10,000's of lives over the past 239 years. What you don't know is that every day US military place themselves in the path of harm to you and your rights, in the path of harm to this once great country. We fight and die for you and you think we are disgusting!.

You should be deported! You do not deserve this country, and are an enemy of the Constitution!

I have not called anybody "names" though you don't seem to have any issues going there.

Just so you know; I served my country rather well in Viet Nam...how about you? How many young men, kids really, do you know that fell to enemy bullets? I'd wager none...

By the way; statistically speaking, this kind of random attack is done by a single person...perhaps you and the cops should do your homework. Maybe then you can learn how to actually address such threats, how to deal with them without offending the Constitution, and the rights of the public. And in the process raise the level of public security to heights that you don't even dream of.


One final remark: No sir you do not deal with "my kind" daily, nor even at all...And, I usually consider police to be friends...until they demonstrate they are not.

THANK YOU for clarifying that it was intended for someone else. I would NEVER say such things. I suggest you go to "edit" and take that out....please. If you don't know how to do it, enlist a mod. Your post looks like I am the one that said such vile things.

originally posted by: LordAhriman

Try again. I work on a military base, and all but one of my employees are either active duty military or retired.

So...you have absolutely no idea what it is like to actually defend a country and a set of idea like the Constitution! You have no idea what it is like when someone comes along and "spits in your face' for providing them with the freedom to do that!

Basically...you have no idea what you are talking about...you've NEVER experienced it!

PTSD would certainly explain your paranoia.

I really do not like people trying to second guess real professionals when it comes to ANY medical need...it's kind of like practicing medicine without a license...dangerous and stupid.


There IS NO police state agenda. They're just people doing their jobs, and their job at this particular incident was to eliminate any and all threats to prevent any more kids from dying. I thank you for your service, but if you're more concerned about your rights than the lives of innocent kids, I have no respect for you as a person.

I never said there was a "police state agenda", however, those men who were just "doing their jobs", were doing their jobs WRONG!

As I said, y'all should do our homework...the probability of a second "shooter" was/is very, very low...meaning; that to even "look" for one would most probably be a complete waste of time, and, resources. Further by their actions in the "looking for" they opened themselves, their dept., the city, county, state, and the courts to civil litigation that could potentially destroy the police dept. and cause great financial harm to the rest. In short; what they did was irresponsible, and could potentially create an environment of greater danger to the public at large.

I live in Texas, where they recently began to allow open carry on College campuses. I was not too sure about this; after all College is a place One goes to continue their education. Fire arms, or indeed weapons of any description should not be involved...period. However, IF such an act was attempted at UT...a student would have shot the attacker down, and he would have been the only life lost...

originally posted by: queenofswords
THANK YOU for clarifying that it was intended for someone else. I would NEVER say such things. I suggest you go to "edit" and take that out....please. If you don't know how to do it, enlist a mod. Your post looks like I am the one that said such vile things.

Done!

Sorry, while I don't like knee-jerk reactions, I'm not immune! It appears I nearly broke by nose with that one...I'll try to think more clearly...

A black muslim extremist killed a bunch of Catholics. Lets see...whose agenda would this damage? Obama? The left? I'd love to hear who gave the confiscation order, but I already know.

The police did NOT take cell phones from people..... This is a small town and people talk to each other. People I know personally (Including my brother) who were there at UCC all have said they had their phones on them and they were not confiscated by police.

Were they all lined up and patted down? Yes! Did they search every single car in the parking lot? Yes! Did they take everyone's cell phones and deleted videos? No!

Some crazy claims about 4th Amendment rights here...

Police are legally permitted to collect evidence and secure a scene..

4th..

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause

People present at a murder scene...Police are permitted to search them and collect evidence.

Some yahoo even said "Statistically these cases are loners" as a reason police should not search people exiting the building for weapons??

Columbine anyone? And hell, in the moment they didn't know whether it was a terrorist attack with multiple participants. You want the police to gamble with those students lives or risk letting a murderer escape...cuz statistics tell them so?

Just some crazy going on with people here..

The searches were REASONABLE under the circumstances...

originally posted by: Indigo5

People present at a murder scene...Police are permitted to search them and collect evidence.

Only with probable cause...

Some yahoo even said "Statistically these cases are loners" as a reason police should not search people exiting the building for weapons??

lol!!! You really should check your data before you say anything...I did...

Columbine anyone? And hell, in the moment they didn't know whether it was a terrorist attack with multiple participants. You want the police to gamble with those students lives or risk letting a murderer escape...cuz statistics tell them so?

Ahh yes; Columbine. Not quite the same thing, but, okay...it was a single instance among many. Also, the only instance where more than one attacker was involved...ALL of the other instances happened on College campuses (as differentiated from High School), and involved a single attacker...to the best of my knowledge.

And, yes, absolutely, the police should hone their technique; that way they can spend less money, and violate fewer rights...and in the process get sued less too. Not to mention they could make it safer for the general public, and the police as well.

Course, I suppose you can just go along the way things are; using no intelligence, no science...just jerk the knee and hope for the best...I can tell you right now, that doesn't work out well.

The searches were REASONABLE under the circumstances...

I disagree!

a reply to: filosophia

How is collecting cell phones for evidence indicative of a false flag? Mind you, I am by no means stating this isn't one, because the timing is suspect, but the collection of cell phones is a normal thing. Anything on those phones, related to the shooting, is evidence.