Confirmed: Police confiscated cell phones from Umpqua students

a reply to: filosophia

Mianeye's on to it, you see, it's not a false flag, this is law enforcement using the tools afforded to them and under these particular circumstances they have every legal right to do this, because the shooting is considered an act of terrorism...........

Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001

That's the backronym for the PATRIOT ACT - that's a document that trumps the constitution and law enforcement can detain and search anyone "suspected" of an act of terrorism or related activities.

OR RELATED ACTIVITIES

Now, read this so you are aware of the other tools afforded to law enforcement......

On May 26, 2011, President Barack Obama signed the PATRIOT Sunsets Extension Act of 2011, a four-year extension of three key provisions in the USA PATRIOT Act: roving wiretaps, searches of business records, and conducting surveillance of "lone wolves"—individuals suspected of terrorist-related activities not linked to terrorist groups

So, what we are seeing is the activation of the ACT in all its might, including the USA Freedom Act.



I hope that clears up any misconceptions as to how US citizens are being protected, so please, get back to Caitlyn, Kim, Kanye and the debates about the gay black Muslims, there is nothing to see here (that you can do anything about or have any control over).

a reply to: Sublimecraft

It's disgusting and should be alarming to everyone in the world. That picture is what happens when we give up liberty for safety. Victims get victimized and freedoms trampled under the guise of protection.

Screw that.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: Sublimecraft

It's disgusting and should be alarming to everyone in the world. That picture is what happens when we give up liberty for safety. Victims get victimized and freedoms trampled under the guise of protection.

Screw that.

Victims get victimized or...the shooter or possible additional shooters get away. It's all about logic and perspective.

Yes. This is exactly what I was talking about. How is this legal for the authorities to do this?

IS it legal? What if a victim refused to cooperate at this point? That's private property and I would think it was off limits for confiscation.

I think it's wrong and agree with others here that as a group, we should be very angry about actions like this.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: Sublimecraft

It's disgusting and should be alarming to everyone in the world. That picture is what happens when we give up liberty for safety. Victims get victimized and freedoms trampled under the guise of protection.

Screw that.

The argument I would make against that would be the timing of that photo.

At the point it was taken did Law Enforcement already know the shooter was dead and was solo or were they still operating under the belief that he was alive and could have been working with someone.

a reply to: ~Lucidity

That's some logic right there. Give up your 4th amendment right because someone else is a criminal. If you want to relinquish your right to privacy go right ahead.

But don't expect others to because you feel we should all lose a little personal freedom in the name of justice.

a reply to: Sublimecraft


To me that picture show victims of a crime being victimized again.

Its chilling to see innocent people treated as criminals . Mass groups forced to stand in line with hands behind their head is something I never thought I would see here. This is not the USA our forefathers fought and died for .

What you think Washington Jefferson Adams or Franklin would say to this situation?

I think they would shake their heads and tell us you allowed our work to be ruined Enjoy your chains now.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: ~Lucidity

That's some logic right there. Give up your 4th amendment right because someone else is a criminal. If you want to relinquish your right to privacy go right ahead.

But don't expect others to because you feel we should all lose a little personal freedom in the name of justice.

What would you have law enforcement do when an active shooter is loose? Let him or her blend into the scenery and get away? Okay.

Before all the righteous indignation about victims being victimized runs rampant does anyone know when that picture was taken?

After the shooter was confirmed alone and dead or while he was still alive and unknown if he was working with someone.

To me, that doesn't matter. Confiscation of property based on possibilities like that is still wrong IMO. Victims can and will be questioned eventually. They don't require a pat down or theft of their items to simply survive an event like this.

Curious what the legalities/procedures are of personal videos taken by people in these instances. Are they required to destroy/erase any video to receive their property back?

Editing to add: And again, what kind of penalty or actions does a victim face if they refuse to cooperate at this point? What if someone just wanted to go home and be left alone and denied any pat downs or confiscation?

a reply to: ~Lucidity

So an unidentified shooter drops their weapons and gear, runs out and blends in with a crowd anyway with no way to identify him. There's any number of ways to escape. So no, I expect them to do the extra work required that would enable them to do their job without violating the innocent's rights. I'm not giving up my rights because I was in the vicinity when garbage decides to hurt people.

originally posted by: Lostinthedarkness
a reply to: Sublimecraft


To me that picture show victims of a crime being victimized again.

Its chilling to see innocent people treated as criminals . Mass groups forced to stand in line with hands behind their head is something I never thought I would see here. This is not the USA our forefathers fought and died for .

What you think Washington Jefferson Adams or Franklin would say to this situation?

I think they would shake their heads and tell us you allowed our work to be ruined Enjoy your chains now.

NO...I think they would tell us to "GROW A SET, AND STAND UP FOR YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS!"

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: ~Lucidity

So an unidentified shooter drops their weapons and gear, runs out and blends in with a crowd anyway with no way to identify him. There's any number of ways to escape. So no, I expect them to do the extra work required that would enable them to do their job without violating the innocent's rights. I'm not giving up my rights because I was in the vicinity when garbage decides to hurt people.

There is protocol for those situations and your "rights" may be temporarily suspended.

IS-907 - Active Shooter: What You Can Do

Other Links

So again, what would you have them do? What would you be doing if you were one of the students? Giving the responders a hard time?

a reply to: ~Lucidity

There is protocol for those situations and your "rights" may be temporarily suspended.

Then it's not really a right if it can be suspended for whatever reason. Might as well just be rid of the 4th amendment then.

It's unreal that people believe it's okay revoke rights because of the crimes of someone else.

However, another attorney I interviewed said officers do have the right to confiscate your camera to preserve evidence.
This can only be done in extreme cases such as homicides, rapes or kidnappings, said Michael Pancier, who not only is a nature photographer, but is representing me in my case against 50 State.

The alternative (to confiscating camera) is that they detain you until such time as a subpoena is obtained which could be days.
Evidence has to be preserved. If you photographed a murder scene; that’s evidence; they can’t just let you go and hope that you don’t delete it or alter it. If the evidence is not immediately preserved, it may be challenged and may be inadmissible. Likewise, if the evidence is destroyed or lost because it was not preserved; then a whole case whether for the state or the defense may go down the tubes.

Not sure what the laws have come to, surely this issue had to be addressed with all of the cameras around during crimes.
blog.simplejustice.us...

a reply to: tanka418

I hate to say it but "GROW A SET, AND STAND UP FOR YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS!"


Ain't gonna happen . Every one is too afraid of the boogeyman they scream take our freedom just keeps us safe. While watching Miliey twerk and keeping up with kims backside.

Thats why our forefathers will tell us enjoy our chain.


God I wish I was wrong .

I grew up where a teen age boy or girl could go hunting before school leave his rifle in the trucks gun rack and go to class no one thought any thing about it sitting in schools parking lot. Now today a poptart shaped like a gun gets a kid expelled.

I have seen this change and been whining about it NO ONE LISTENS they just say if it keep us safe and feed us good tv take what ever you want just keep us safe.

originally posted by: kosmicjack
Also seems they had to turn in their keys so vehicles could be searched and cleared. Can anyone verify that?

If true, it seems like unreasonable search or seizure to me. So anyone adjacent to a crime is a suspect, even the victims?

Well the link says they were evacuated "on buses" so that right there would indicate they were not allowed to use their personal vehicles.

Then there is this:

She writes, "I have no cell phone, car keys, house keys, or wallet, but I'm home.

www.oregonlive.com...

So, why wouldn't she have car keys? Usually colleges don't have any kind of lockers like in high school, so students almost always have their belongings on them. So my only guess is she doesn't have these things, because they were taken.

Best they'd get from me is hands down palms out, nope you cannot have my keys and get a warrant if you search my vehicle. No you may not have my cell phone either without a warrant.

These things I'd say calmly.

None of it from belligerence just know my rights.

If they proceed then I'll fight them later in court.

originally posted by: opethPA
Before all the righteous indignation about victims being victimized runs rampant does anyone know when that picture was taken?

After the shooter was confirmed alone and dead or while he was still alive and unknown if he was working with someone.

The article says the cell phones were taken "sometime after noon." The shooting happened around 10:40 AM. The shooter was "down" at 10:46 AM

10:46 a.m.: Officers report "Code 4, suspect is down."

www.oregonlive.com...

So yes, the shooter was "down" killed over an hour before they confiscated cell phones.

Here's another question, related to confiscated cell phones: where are the cell phone videos of the students huddled in the class rooms? Or of the emergency vehicles entering campus? Or of the police searching everyone? The community college is large, 2 to 3 thousand full time students, and many more part time students (I remember the media saying almost 10,000, which is extremely large for a community college), so not one person made a video and uploaded it to youtube? And yet, some people tweeted during the shootings. Where are the videos?