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Does Islam force itself on others?

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posted on Sep, 28 2015 @ 01:55 PM
Lately I've noticed that a lot of people here on ATS accuse Islam of many different things.

One of the most common, yet groundless, accusations being made against Islam is that it forces itself on others. The picture presented is that if someone does not stop Islam, it will forcefully convert everyone, even at gunpoint.

Here is one of the verses commonly quoted by those who make their living propagating this idea:

“…seize them and kill them wherever you find them…” (Qur’an, 4:91).

This verse is used as evidence that Muslims are required to kill anyone who does not accept Islam. That would mean that any Muslim who does not either forcefully convert or kill every non-Muslim he sees is not practicing Islam. This ridiculous idea is childishly easy to refute. But before we do that, let’s do a brief comparison.

Many of those accusations are made by Christians, let’s see what the Bible has to say about violence:

In Deuteronomy 7:1-3: “When the Lord your God brings you into the land… and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. Do not intermarry with them…”

In Deuteronomy 20:10-17: “When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, then lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves.

In Deuteronomy 20:16-17: “However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them…”

In Numbers 31:17-18: “Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.”

Jesus is reported to have said in Luke 19:27: “But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’”

Again, Jesus supposedly said in Matthew 10:34: “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.”

The verses in the Bible are much more violent than any of the verses that can be found in the Qur’an. Can you find a single verse in the Qur’an which says: “Show them no mercy!” or “Do not leave anything that breathes!” or “Kill all the non-virgin women!”? Yet, ironically, most of the people who quote verses from the Qur’an about violence consider themselves Christians and believe in the Bible. Why do they ignore their own Scripture and apply a double standard of hypocrisy?

However, the fair Chritian will say: “These verses must be read in context.” I agree, and the same opportunity of contextualization should be given to the Qur’an as well.

To understand the context of any verse in the Qur’an relating to violence, you only need to do two things:

1. Identify the pronouns
2. Read the verses before and after the verse in question

This simple technique is so blatantly obvious; it requires a very special “education” to forget to apply it.

Let’s identify the pronouns in the verse we quoted: “…seize them and kill them wherever you find them …” (Qur’an, 4:91).
There is only one pronoun, “them,” used three times, and it’s pretty clear that it refers to the same group of people. This group of people referred to as “them” can only be identified if we look at the verses before and after.

Looking at the preceding verses we learn the following:

Verse 88 tells us that the pronoun “them” is referring to hypocrites who pretend to be Muslim on the outside but are actually spies and informants.

Verse 89 tells us that if these hypocrites turn and fight you, then you are allowed to fight them back.

Verse 90 tells us that Muslims are not allowed to touch anyone who does not want to fight.

In this example, it becomes crystal clear that “them” is referring to a group of hypocrites who are trying to harm and kill the Muslims. It would have been sufficient in this case to simply quote more of the verse: “ So if they neither withdraw, nor offer you peace, nor restrain themselves from fighting you, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them: We give you clear authority against these type of people. ” (Qur’an, 4:91)

This short video explains it a lot better, if you wish to watch it.

"Kill Them Where You Find Them" Verse Explained by Nouman Ali Khan

There is not a single verse in the Qur’an which says to harm another person because of their not being a Muslim. On the contrary, there are several verses which talk about respecting non-Muslims.

To further clarify the matter about forced conversion to Islam, let’s look at these verses:

“ There is no compulsion in religion…” (Qur’an, 2:256)

“Had your Lord wanted, all the people on earth would have believed. So will you force people to believe?” (Qur’an, 10:99)

“So warn them: your only task is to warn, you’re not supposed to force them.” (Qur’an, 88:21-22)

“He does not forbid you to deal kindly and justly with anyone who has not fought you for your faith and driven you out of your homes, God loves the just.” (Qur’an, 60:8)

Could the Qur’an be any clearer on this issue?

So the question about whether Islam forces itself on others has been addressed. A muslim that has studied Islam and read the Qur'an would never force you to convert to his religion.

An example of how prophet Muhammed treated non-muslims:

In an authentic tradition, Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)is reported to have said: “Whenever you see a funeral procession, stand up till the procession goes ahead of you”. [1] One day a funeral procession passed in front of him and he stood up. When he was told that it was the coffin of a Jew, he said, "Is it not a living being (soul)?" Also, Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) used to visit non-Muslims who were sick. Hence, the Prophet (Peace be upon him)visited Abu Talib in his sickness, and he also visited a sick Jewish boy. [2]

He (Peace be upon him) observed people's rights in terms of good neighborliness, as he said: ““The best of companions with Allah is the one who is best to his companion, and the best of neighbors with Him is the one who is best to his neighbor”.[3] The tradition included every neighbor, even if he was a non-Muslim.

Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) did not come to deprive those who did not follow him of freedom. Instead, he treated them with a rare form of tolerance.
edit on 28-9-2015 by ElectricFeel because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-9-2015 by ElectricFeel because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 28 2015 @ 02:02 PM
a reply to: ElectricFeel

Excellent OP, I will watch the video later. I have been considering making the same argument for a while. I'm glad you included the OT and NT quotes for comparison.


posted on Sep, 28 2015 @ 02:03 PM
a reply to: ElectricFeel

I can't speak for everyone, but I don't care what you believe or not believe. I will actually fight for your right to worship or not worship. Just leave me and mine alone and reciprocate. We'll get along nicely.

posted on Sep, 28 2015 @ 02:14 PM
your argument is "you think we're bad? look at these guys." and im over here lke "i think you both are nuts"

posted on Sep, 28 2015 @ 02:24 PM
a reply to: crustyjuggler27

Nope that's not my argument at all, I don't think Christians (or their scriptures) are bad. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of some Christians here on ATS. The point of this thread is to make clear that Islam doesn't want to convert you forcefully, I'm not here to bash Christianity.

posted on Sep, 28 2015 @ 02:24 PM
a reply to: ElectricFeel
You just confirmed religion is a competition for who is right and who is wrong. If god, peace be upon her/him, then he/she would not have give us religion in any form. I have a simple instruction to all religious people.

edit on 28-9-2015 by chewi because: spelling mistake

posted on Sep, 28 2015 @ 02:25 PM
It depends on the type of Islam you are dealing with and whether or not they hold power. ISIS would tell you that they have ever right to decide exactly what they will do to anyone and everyone they take power over who does not convert and conform perfectly to their brand of Islam. That does include executing those who will not comply.

In some countries a form of Shari'a Law is imposed that demands that those who are not Muslim must conform to the demands of dhimmitude or lose any legal rights they might otherwise have. For those of you familiar with US history, remember Jim Crow? Dhimmitude is designed to be similar in many ways only you can escape it by converting. The aim is to humiliate and impoverish people into converting.

So really, it all depends on the sect and the magnitude of legal power it holds as to how much trouble you may or may not have with your Muslims neighbors.

I wouldn't have much if any issues with Sufi neighbors for example.

posted on Sep, 28 2015 @ 02:35 PM

originally posted by: ElectricFeel
Lately I've noticed that a lot of people here on ATS accuse Islam of many different things.

One of the most common, yet groundless, accusations being made against Islam is that it forces itself on others. The picture presented is that if someone does not stop Islam, it will forcefully convert everyone, even at gunpoint.

I think most people just read the news daily and see a world filled with death, destruction and war that's being waged by Muslims trying to spread Islam.

posted on Sep, 28 2015 @ 02:39 PM
The point is: it doesn't matter what your book says,
it matter how its followers act upon it.
It's them who pretend to follow a holy book.
Your book never beheaded or blow up anyone.
Its followers did.
The peace is definitely not upon them.

Ready to talk about facts now?
edit on 28-9-2015 by WhiteHat because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 28 2015 @ 02:44 PM
All religions force their beliefs on others, children in particular. Raised in an Islamic, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, etc. home? You'll most likely grow up following that religion, not because you want to in particular but because your parents forced it on you as a child. It's called indoctrination and all religions are guilty of it, that's how they've all become so popular.

posted on Sep, 28 2015 @ 02:48 PM
I understand what your trying to say here, all bible stuff aside you actions speak louder than words you don't see christians going around killing people.

posted on Sep, 28 2015 @ 03:03 PM
a reply to: rumor21
not any more. They do however judge people and disallow them from their heaven. Christians, muslims and anyone else following religion has turned into a judge of their fellow man, woman and child.
It is beheading favoured by allah s ( peace be upon him/her), Followers of jesus preferred burning them. You are all guilty and should be ashamed of following religion when our fellow man needs the offerings of love and worship. Not advice on what to believe.
Look around you. What do you see. A god?
Please point him/her out to us who do not believe in cruelty. We cannot see or feel religious because we are too busy being disgusted with the garden of eden we have inherited.

posted on Sep, 28 2015 @ 03:45 PM
Well, a short answer is that Muslims do force Islam on people, in that Muslims have problems leaving the faith, especially in Muslim countries, due to that nasty little word "apostasy". Basically, if you are born a Muslim, it's a crime to decide not to be a Muslim, so "yes" it is forced on you.

Nice Wiki

posted on Sep, 28 2015 @ 04:08 PM
a reply to: ElectricFeel

Hello ElectricFeel!

I like how you put things about the Holy Qur'an and I respect very much your explanation.

Me being neither Christian or Muslim but more of a scholar who likes to read and understand more will only give some feedback on what you cite.

For Luke 19:27.. Yeshua is not saying to do these things, he's telling a story known as the Ten Midas parable or Ten Pounds parable. Very interesting read. The king in the story is saying this, not Yeshua.

For Matthew 10:34.. Yeshua is talking that he will bring "problems" or "turmoil" withing family circles since most jewish people that started following him caused great controversy with their families and friends. This was translated from greek and in those times "sword" was used to convey this.

Just like you state, people read what they want and will take things out of context.

As-salamu alaykum my brother

posted on Sep, 28 2015 @ 04:46 PM
a reply to: ElectricFeel

I do not attack the Islam faith, I do attack those Islamic radicals who feel violence is the answer. Radical Islam and its sympathizers are dangerous and this is the problem with Islam. The problem with sympathizers is a real issue because they support these radicals. It is estimated that a minimum of 100 million Islam followers are radicals, not counting the sympathizers. These figure are the bare minimum world wide.

You can not debate with radical Islamists their beliefs will not change so how do you handle this type of violent behaviour? Then there are those that support these radicals what about them? and their sympathizers what about them?

I feel for the true muslim and know they suffer BUT they need to stand up and fight back. They need to become more involved with speaking out around the world. Their messages are not getting out because they are not united.
edit on 28-9-2015 by DeathSlayer because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 28 2015 @ 05:12 PM
I think the problem we have at the moment are the extreme muslims that are currently forcing people to either convert, pay taxes or be put to death. They claim this is what the Koran says. I dont know the koran so am not sure if this is true or not. ISIS is in the news a lot and is giving the people the impression this is an Islamic doctrine, dont know if it is or just ISIS believe it is.

I disagree its just Christians saying this though. I think many people see this happening at the moment and just assume it is a Koran thing. I have seen this on the news here also, and they are not Christian by a long shot.

posted on Sep, 28 2015 @ 06:59 PM
a reply to: chewi Not only do Christians and muslims judge we all judge one another on different issues, but to compare a now a day christian to a muslim is just ridiculous. Islam is gross. what goes on over in the middle east the rape and murder of women and children is sick and should not be compared to christians today.

posted on Sep, 28 2015 @ 07:08 PM
a reply to: ElectricFeel

I honestly feel that the sad thing about religion is that people will twist it's meaning to anything they damned well please. Written words are wonderful for this. Just look at our own laws here in the United States. Look at all the "loopholes"...people twisting the law to their own ends.

Now, I have another thread on here at the moment about Islam. It has a rather incendiary title meant to drive readership as well as thought. But, it is about a thought exercise.

I feel that just as much can be twisted in any written it Christianity or Satanism or Islam. If someone truly cared to do so, I'd imagine even Buddhism could be twisted.

The simple fact is, some people are simply extremists. Some people look to twist and pervert, whether they realize it or not.

Islam, as well as most other religions, may very well be peaceful and loving. But, once you bring people into the mix...well, who the hell knows what is going to happen.

posted on Sep, 28 2015 @ 07:19 PM
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Atheist homes are the same way. Let's not beat around the bush here.

Parents raise their children with their values. It is what parenting is. But I suppose we could take the children away from birth and put them in state child rearing centers. Of course, then the children would be indoctrinated by the state.

The only way to be completely sure the children only learned those values and beliefs they wanted to learn would be to keep them in perfect isolation centers all throughout their lives until they are 18.

I'm sure that would work out really well.

posted on Sep, 28 2015 @ 07:28 PM
a reply to: ketsuko

I agree, atheist parents are just as guilty. The best way to prevent a child from being indoctrinated into one belief or another is to let them decide on their own. No need to put them in isolation centers, just allow them to find their own answers without parents giving their biases one way or another.

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