The Question for which Berenstein Skeptics Have No Answer

originally posted by: James1982
a reply to: metamagic

Proof is impossible to provide and you know that. But that doesn't mean nothing is happening.

I disagree with the first and agree with the second. I have no patience with those who detract from the issue but making statements like the OP that this is all "self-proving". One person remembering some minor details differently is not proof. So yes objective proof is impossible IF we assume reality has changed consistently and completely. But yes, I do suspect something is happening but not on the basis of this issue.

If we are discussing the flexibility of reality and the fabric of existence then the idea of mundane pieces of evidence is pretty silly.

Quite true

What evidence would make you happy? There is none. Because if we are talking about reality changing on the fly then the evidence isn't going to be there, because reality is changing. That's the whole idea being proposed.

This isn't something that is going to get understood with historical documents and microfiche.

I have, on multiple occasions suggested two tests that would, while not prove anything, lend some credibility to the idea that there are reality shifts.

1. (This is the weaker of the two) A specific major fact that is consistently mis-remembered by people, not a minor detail like a song lyric or a book title. What would be a major fact? Mick Jagger was a founding member of the Beatles. Yokohama was destroyed by the A-bomb not Nagasaki. If a major fact is consistently mis-remembered in the the same way then things get interesting.

2. A complex event consisting of multiple details where there are two groups of people who remember that event differently. For example, one group believes that a living public figure died. They are in at least two different groups that do not have any sort of communication or contact. Say people in London and in in Texas. However they remember specific details -- where the funeral was held, who spoke at the eulogy, what the newspaper headlines were -- in a consistent way.

I have heard of alleged cases of both of these however I have no independent verification. For example, four siblings, three of which remember a fifth one who suddenly seems to have been edited out of existence while the rest of the family do not remember him at all. Another is where a person found certain aspect of the world suddenly changed (different countries, money, history) and was able to connect with others who shared his memory of how things were otherwise.

That is what I consider a solid suggestion of a reality shift.

Um, yeah, as a kid growing up I was presented with Yogi Berra as a historical character, and I assumed him to be dead, never being told he was alive. Then he up and dies the other day: Mandela effect. Nope faulty assumption on my part.

Is it just:

faulty memory

unchecked assumptions

people who just can't spell these days

tabloids with lies for headlines

etc, etc, etc???

Or - are we living in a higher dream state with a reality that is only more stable than in our night dreams, but still capable of a glitch now and then?

Remember, as long as we are in the dream, we are unable to examine it from an outside reference point.

a reply to: network dude

I'd love to hear all about that "league" you are in. Are the walls soft?

Maybe I don't love you as much as I thought.

a reply to: DelMarvel

"Everyone" has faulty memory issues?

Please provide empirical proof of this.

Also... My advice is to not make the assumption that only humans visit here ;-)

I can explain at least one of these that comes up often, the Star Wars one. The quote from the movie has never changed, but it did in pop culture when Chris Farley said "Luke...I am your father" into a fan in a very popular movie.

a reply to: network dude

I'm still looking but maybe you can explain this while I do?



And the satelite image.

This really is such a FASCINATING subject, and you made a great point OP!

--Waves hello to fellow 'Steiners--

It just occurred to me that maybe the perfect people to ask and/or survey, would be long-time Librarians...they would have handled the physical books the most, I would think. The profession does tend towards attention to detail as well.

This is all my fault. Sorry folks. At times I get bored and/or emotionally charged, and consequently manipulate reality. I'm trying to mantle this issue with higher articulation of the forces, but it's a herculean task.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: network dude

I'd love to hear all about that "league" you are in. Are the walls soft?

Maybe I don't love you as much as I thought.

Randy, I still love ya man. I just thought this one was long since figured out. If all the physical books that exist and none of them say Bearenstein, but Bearenstain, I thought that was sufficient enough to close it.

originally posted by: [post=19864943]

Wowsers.. MADAGASCAR has shifted up north alot! it used to be just east of S. Africa and not so far off the mainland.

India appears to have alot of its coastal land on both sides now. ALOT!

a reply to: network dude

I would also agree with that. But my memory won't accept it.
The book I mentioned was a favorite of my girlfrinds daughter.
I remember like it was a photograph three Es and commenting
to my self that it was an odd name the way it was spelled with
three Es matching the E in Bears. There was no G-D a but the
one in Bears!


I blame cern and harp.

originally posted by: bgregory
a reply to: DelMarvel

"Everyone" has faulty memory issues?

Please provide empirical proof of this.

Let's see. Just from the first few links that come up under search for "reliability of human memory" :

www.bps.org.uk...

"The brain's ability to store information about what we've experienced is of course truly impressive but our sense of a fluent and accurate back story is a clever cognitive illusion. Memory is essentially a reconstructive process and it is far more fallible than most people realise.

www.theatlantic.com...

New research released this week has found that even people with phenomenal memory are susceptible to having “false memories,” suggesting that “memory distortions are basic and widespread in humans, and it may be unlikely that anyone is immune,” according to the authors of the study published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS).

phys.org...

The work by psychologists at the University of St Andrews shows that the human memory can be remarkably fragile and even inventive when it comes to remembering past events, often completely rewriting 'autobiographical belief'

www.healthline.com...

Human memory is notoriously unreliable, especially when it comes to details. Scientists have found that prompting an eyewitness to remember more can generate details that are outright false but that feel just as correct to the witness as actual memories.

www.medicalnewstoday.com...

Our memories can change even if we don't realize they have changed, That means that if a defendant can't remember something, a jury might assume they are lying. And misremembering one detail can impugn their credibility for other testimony, when it might just reflect the normal fallibility of memory."

We've known since the 1930s that memories can become distorted in systematic ways, We've known since the 1980s that even memory for vivid, very meaningful personal events can change over time.

originally posted by: Milah

originally posted by: [post=19864943]

Wowsers.. MADAGASCAR has shifted up north alot! it used to be just east of S. Africa and not so far off the mainland.

India appears to have alot of its coastal land on both sides now. ALOT!

I'm willing to keep a tiny sliver of an open mind on the Berenstain Bears but for Madagascar and New Zealand to have been in different locations would have required geological differences going back to the early history of the planet. If there had been a timeline shift from that the previous reality would have been extremely, radically different than the "current" reality.

originally posted by: DelMarvel

originally posted by: TombEscaper

It does seem as through certain things have "slipped through the cracks" of the shift, such as that forum discussion, as well as possibly the circulating picture of the stack of books with "Berenstein" on the side, if that picture is authentic.
.

And, of course, the memories of all the many people who are remembering it as "Berenstein."

I'm still not understanding how this mechanism supposedly works. Once again, how is it that the people closest to the situation (like Michael Berenstain) have no memory of the previous reality while all those who are claiming a change seem to only have peripheral experience?

This brings up an interesting point that ties into the opening post. It seems as though the only time that he has addressed this issue (if at all) is through an ambiguous and suspect anonymous post on one of the first known write-ups of the dilemma. With this being such a massive (and ever-growing) phenomenon, why would there not be more from his end? And again, why can we find no evidence throughout the last 50 years (until recently) that there has been a mass-error regarding the spelling of the name? If this was something that was as widespread as it appears to have been (80-90 percent of those who remember the Bears are convinced of the E spelling), how is it possible that it was never addressed throughout the 50+ years of the BB's, even when Stan and Jan were alive?

""Mike Berenstain" in that post even says "most people have just misread the name." Bypassing the fact that he is trying to say that "most people" who read the books on a regular basis never came to realize that they were seeing an E instead of an A, we still have to question how or why the large scale mistake that "most people" were making was never addressed or corrected by the BerenstAins. Why is it that all who are convinced of the E spelling had never encountered a time when they were enlightened to the "correct" spelling throughout the long history of the BB's?

This does not add up when logically pondered. Those who stand by the idea of a mass delusion/incorrect reading in times past cannot explain this void of it not being addressed and clarified long ago.

For what it's worth, here is an anonymous (of course) post from the below link:

I work directly with the Berenstain family and the Berenstain Bears books every day and I cannot tell you how many times a week I have a customer tell me this exact quandary when I'm helping them troubleshoot one of our products. The son of the Berenstains is at this point pretty over the kerfuffle and thinks everyone who thought it was -stein (as I did and still do) is crazy. We privately refer to the brand as Berenstein in our office anyway and have only slipped up on the phone to the son once. It caused a great deal of silent paroxysms around the room for a good 10 minutes while the offender gradually lost more and more color from their face while Mike Berenstain gently explained how to spell his name.

www.metafilter.com...

originally posted by: TombEscaper

For what it's worth, here is an anonymous (of course) post from the below link:

The son of the Berenstains is at this point pretty over the kerfuffle and thinks everyone who thought it was -stein (as I did and still do) is crazy. We privately refer to the brand as Berenstein in our office anyway and have only slipped up on the phone to the son once. It caused a great deal of silent paroxysms around the room for a good 10 minutes while the offender gradually lost more and more color from their face while Mike Berenstain gently explained how to spell his name.

www.metafilter.com...

That's ALOT of fans to call crazy. Doesn't sound like the author of Bible Storybooks to me. Perhaps HE has been changed, too. It would make sense he's been threatened to keep his mouth shut or ELSE.

Theres goes the neighborhood! (Or should I say, THIS neighborhood?)

Wonder how do Stainers explain or rationalize the vast majority of then-childhood English-speakers worldwide who are agreeing it was always BerenstEin? Occam's razor? Mass delusion?

What is the probability that a random person has the surname Berenstain? Now compare that to the probablity that a random person has the surname Berenstein. Not that most of us are applying Occam's razor; in fact it seems the Berenstainers seem to have less detailed accounts of 'why' they believe it always was stain, other than physical evidence itself which is what Steiners are disputing in the first place.

originally posted by: Milah

originally posted by: NowWhat

If it was Sammy the Squid it would be Sammy el Calamar in Spanish. Still Sammy though, cause thats like not up for translation or debate, its his actual name. Geez...

I should specify non-Romanized languages.

Wonder how it would be spelled when objectively transliterated back to a Romance language? Would provide some insight, even if not conclusive.

This Japanese katakana script clearly says "Stein" as in "eye". Although the spelling would be "S-ta-i-n". The Japanese "AI" is pronounced "eye".

a reply to: occrest

Wow.
Wonder how this post is going to be referenced in the coming pages.
Commenting to bookmark, and...never ever heard "stain" till the above mentioned weird theory thread.
Now on to the rest of several pages of the OP's thread.
S&F.

I too am of the "e" camp. I watched the referenced youtube video and made this same comment, that the font may have thrown us off. The font for the "a" looks similar to an upside down "e". As a kid, I hadnt seen this type of "a" and remember learning to write it that way at a later age. Maybe its some type of dyslexia or something. I still see it as an "e" in my minds eye, and always pronounced it as an "i", like beer stein. I wonder how many other things may be different in the paradigm shift that we are unaware of. I thought it interesting too the date of 2001 on the photo of the books, 9/11 even. That may prove to be a photoshop, but that would be an interesting time to switch the timeline of reality, with all that has happened since.

Actually, the bears were named after the authors, Stan and Jan Berenstain.

www.seventeen.com...

Ya'll just had trouble with reading cursive and/or are relating the common stein, instead of stain. How many people do you know with stAin in their names?

a reply to: TombEscaper

I remember it being Berenstein and I always thought it was Mirror Mirror, but I was a kid when I read Berenstain Bears and that was a fair while ago now, so I put that down to not remembering it right.
And apparently Mirror Mirror is one of the top ten misquotes from a movie. Along with others I obviously have heard wrong too.
So I'm not seeing any alternate or changed or different timelines.