U.S. support for Syria rebels illegal, Putin says ahead of Obama meeting

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Azureblue

U.S. support for Syria rebels illegal, Putin says ahead of Obama meeting. Wonderfull, fantastic, bout time someone said it.

But when that is said about Putin's action in Ukraine it isn't...hypocrisy at it's best.

Pathetic. That is the argument a child would make.

This IS NOT about Russian involvement in Ukraine clearing up the crap started there and aggravated by the US...this is about the correct statement made about the USA being in bed with, encouraging and supplying terrorists, who then go on to form several high profile terrorist groups targeting the entire region, and the USA's illegality and hypocrisy in doing so while simultaneously bleating on about the woes and imminent danger to our collective security from radicalised terrorist groups, a danger so apparently present and in our faces, that many of the freedoms once taken for granted by the public have now been eroded to the point of farce 'to protect us all from the bogeymen'.

Calling others hypocrites does not diminish one's own outrageous hypocrisy, nor is it an excuse for illegally supplying terrorists and creating radical extremist and violent groups who go on to create carnage and instability in the region.

Does it.

It's about the USA's criminal activities as per topic...not about Russia's dodgy moves...if you want to talk about other illegal activities perhaps you should start another thread and bleat on about it with deflection rhetoric there.

Otherwise, i'd be interested in your thoughts specifically about the Russian accusations and claims that your own country is up to it's neck in illegality in the M.E....if you actually have a view that is on topic of course?

He's going to announce a no fly zone for the US and Turkey over Syria

originally posted by: Terminal1
a reply to: Crumbles

What does Crimea have to do with Syria and Putins words on it?

Second...

Russian media have stopped covering Ukraine and switched to Syria. Putin has to appear to be a world leader in the eyes of his people, so now he is going to address the UN and pose a savior. It's all a publicity stunt for the domestic market so, yes, the two are intimately related.

originally posted by: Hellas
He's going to announce a no fly zone for the US and Turkey over Syria

Absolutely no way. He'd be forced to shoot down a NATO jet or appear weak. Either way, he loses.

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: Hellas
He's going to announce a no fly zone for the US and Turkey over Syria

Absolutely no way. He'd be forced to shoot down a NATO jet or appear weak. Either way, he loses.

How's he losing? He will declare the support of the rebels illegal and ask for a UN Mandate for the Anti-Isis alliance.
IF the US vetoes that, he'll announce a no fly zone.

originally posted by: Hellas

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: Hellas
He's going to announce a no fly zone for the US and Turkey over Syria

Absolutely no way. He'd be forced to shoot down a NATO jet or appear weak. Either way, he loses.

How's he losing? He will declare the support of the rebels illegal and ask for a UN Mandate for the Anti-Isis alliance.
IF the US vetoes that, he'll announce a no fly zone.

A no-fly zone is meaningless unless it is enforced. NATO aircraft are now bombing Daesh emplacements; a no-fly zone would inhibit this. Eventually, NATO aircraft would violate the zone and Putin would have to shoot it down, leading to massive reprisals, or skulk away with his tail between his legs. Can you see Putin doing either of these things? All he is going to do is condemn the United States in the UN, then call for an international coalition to fight Daesh. No-one will volunteer if it means helping Assad, so Putin just might have an excuse to ditch him while pretending to help him. Assad could magnanimously step down and retire to a dacha in Crimea.

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: Hellas

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: Hellas
He's going to announce a no fly zone for the US and Turkey over Syria

Absolutely no way. He'd be forced to shoot down a NATO jet or appear weak. Either way, he loses.

How's he losing? He will declare the support of the rebels illegal and ask for a UN Mandate for the Anti-Isis alliance.
IF the US vetoes that, he'll announce a no fly zone.

A no-fly zone is meaningless unless it is enforced. NATO aircraft are now bombing Daesh emplacements; a no-fly zone would inhibit this. Eventually, NATO aircraft would violate the zone and Putin would have to shoot it down, leading to massive reprisals, or skulk away with his tail between his legs. Can you see Putin doing either of these things? All he is going to do is condemn the United States in the UN, then call for an international coalition to fight Daesh. No-one will volunteer if it means helping Assad, so Putin just might have an excuse to ditch him while pretending to help him. Assad could magnanimously step down and retire to a dacha in Crimea.

I don't think that he's in Syria to do what the UN or the US wants him to do. He's going the official way, but if they don't see his point he'll do it anyway. He has enough of the double standarts and is a supporter of Assad. There will be no stepping down nor does Putin need any support since even China is backing him and his ideology regarding this Topic.

We might be used to see it happening the other way, but this time it is not going to be that way. He will finish the job, with or without an UN Mandate. And if that means war, then so be it. Let's see how many would want to risk that

a reply to: MysterX

Pathetic.

You are correct Putin's comments are.

This IS NOT about Russian involvement in Ukraine clearing up the crap started there and aggravated by the US..

Wait does Russia not back rebels in Ukraine...and it was Russia that did that in Ukraine not the US.

this is about the correct statement made about the USA being in bed with, encouraging and supplying terrorists, who then go on to form several high profile terrorist groups targeting the entire region, and the USA's illegality and hypocrisy in doing so while simultaneously bleating on about the woes and imminent danger to our collective security from radicalised terrorist groups, a danger so apparently present and in our faces, that many of the freedoms once taken for granted by the public have now been eroded to the point of farce 'to protect us all from the bogeymen'.

Hmm, and you don't see the hypocrisy from what Russia says and does then complains that other countries do the same?

I guess it's easier to just blindly believe what Russia says than it is to actually see the truth.

It's about the USA's criminal activities as per topic...not about Russia's dodgy moves...if you want to talk about other illegal activities perhaps you should start another thread and bleat on about it with deflection rhetoric there.

What illegal activities...fighting terrorists is illegal, so when did this happen?

If the US fighting ISIS is illegal what makes Russia's plan to do the same legal?

Remember Assad welcomed the US airstrikes on ISIS...

"Syria is ready to cooperate and coordinate with regional and international efforts to combat terror in accordance with U.N. resolutions and respect of Syrian sovereignty," Foreign Minister Walid al-Moallem told a press conference in Damascus.

"Everyone is welcome, including Britain and the United States, to take action against ISIS and Nusra with a prior full coordination with the Syrian government," al-Moallem continued.

www.cbsnews.com...

It's only illegal because Putin says it is...the rest of the world doesn't seem to think it is...including Syria who really matter when calling something illegal in their country.

Otherwise, i'd be interested in your thoughts specifically about the Russian accusations and claims that your own country is up to it's neck in illegality in the M.E....if you actually have a view that is on topic of course?

As shown above it isn't illegal and even is accepted by the country that this supposed illegal acts are supposed to be happening...now how about proving how this is so illegal when the country it happens in says it is okay?

a reply to: Hellas

I don't think that he's in Syria to do what the UN or the US wants him to do. He's going the official way, but if they don't see his point he'll do it anyway. He has enough of the double standarts and is a supporter of Assad. There will be no stepping down nor does Putin need any support since even China is backing him and his ideology regarding this Topic.

Putin cannot afford to risk a military defeat; it would end his career. The situation in Syria is similar to the one that defeated the USSR in Afghanistan. Putin is not an idiot, he will not repeat that mistake. China is not backing him on Syria; the stories being circulated about China sending warships are palpable lies:

libertyunyielding.com...

We might be used to see it happening the other way, but this time it is not going to be that way. He will finish the job, with or without an UN Mandate. And if that means war, then so be it. Let's see how many would want to risk that

Do you really think he wants to spend the next ten years chasing around the desert from Turkey to Yemen and Iraq to Ethiopia? That's Daesh's game board. If he chases them out of Syria they'll make trouble elsewhere for a while and as soon as the Russians leave, they will come rushing back with a vengeance. That is how they operate and Putin knows it. All he is doing is posturing so that he looks like a world leader and not a world loser.

a reply to: MysterX

Didn't take long to change the subject?

Gawd people..

It's illegal to support terrorists...

STOP



Like stop NOW.

Or go to jail.

edit: I support the post I am responding to. Someone making all the sense in the world.

a reply to: DJW001

Chasing around the desert? Who do think Putin is? Or do you honestly believe that if the US really wanted to destroy ISIS they couldn't have done so long time ago?

Putin is not interested in playing the world leader. That's reserved for somebody else, as he says.
It is time for the war games to end. There will be no more 'US democracy' and Assad won't step down just because the US government wants him to. That's the decision of the Syrian people and nobody else's.

The moment Putin stepped into Syria, suddenly everybody is willing to talk to Assad! Before that, he was a terrorist!!

a reply to: Hellas

There will be no stepping down nor does Putin need any support since even China is backing him and his ideology regarding this Topic.

China seems to have their own reasons for joining the fight against ISIS.

The article quotes a July 4 speech in Mosul, Iraq by IS leader Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi, during which he says, “Muslim rights are forcibly seized in China, India, Palestine” and, “Your brothers all over the world are waiting for your rescue, and are anticipating your brigades.” The article specifically notes that China was mentioned first on al-Baghdadi’s list, and shows a map that reportedly shows the territory IS plans to occupy in the next five years – which includes a significant portion of Xinjiang.

thediplomat.com...

They seem to be looking after their own interests more than backing Russia on their views about Syria. And the fact that Russia has a port that the Chinese can use doesn't hurt either.

And this may lead to a crackdown on extremists there which could lead to more problems for China in the long run.

a reply to: Hellas

Chasing around the desert? Who do think Putin is? Or do you honestly believe that if the US really wanted to destroy ISIS they couldn't have done so long time ago?

You seem to think that defeating a group with no fixed abode, no clear command structure, no distinctive uniform, local support and an utter disregard for the Geneva Conventions is easy. Russia's military leadership learned from their experience in Afghanistan. Daesh cannot be defeated by force of arms; it will require an ideological victory, and that can only come from within Islam.

Putin is not interested in playing the world leader. That's reserved for somebody else, as he says.

Putin says a lot of things. Right now his main concern is drawing the focus away from his domestic problems. Russian soldiers are dying in Ukraine, so he can't keep people focused there, and the Russian economy is going down the tubes:



The ruble is worthless.



Inflation is out of control.



The economy is collapsing.

If Putin wants to forestall a coup, he needs to do something dramatic, something that reminds everyone that he is a superhero. Wrestling a tiger wouldn't be enough. He needs to project Russian power in a way that will make Russia, and therefore Putin, look strong.

It is time for the war games to end. There will be no more 'US democracy' and Assad won't step down just because the US government wants him to. That's the decision of the Syrian people and nobody else's.

I marvel how you keep underestimating Putin. Assad's fate is now entirely in the hands of Vladimir Vladimirovich. If Putin backs him, he stays. If Putin sacrifices him to expediency, he goes.

The moment Putin stepped into Syria, suddenly everybody is willing to talk to Assad! Before that, he was a terrorist!!

People have been willing to talk to him all along, he just refused to do what he was asked. He's still a terrorist. Here's the thing: if Putin really wants to engage Daesh, he first must bring the civil war to an end so that it's clear that the people under arms are all Daesh, and not legitimate rebels. The only way that is going to happen is if Assad agrees to step down.

a reply to: DJW001

It's funny it sounds like you are talking about the US.

Can you show me how close to 20 trillion debt is solvent?

Or where should we put our focus.

Putin is distracting his people.. OK.
So? where are we focusing?

Or is it lost that putin is OUR distraction.

I'll repeat it's Illegal to support terrorism.
It's illegal to operate in foreign countries to overthrow governments.
It's not illegal if we declare war.
Besides that....

We are just supporting terror.

Do I have to arrest these guys myself?

a reply to: DJW001

I say we wait and listen to what Putin will have to say later today and pick it up from there.

a reply to: Reverbs

I'll repeat it's Illegal to support terrorism.

Correct; in supporting Assad, Russia is committing an illegal act.

It's illegal to operate in foreign countries to overthrow governments.

Correct, which is why Russia's subversion in Crimea and support for rebels in Eastern Ukraine is illegal.

It's not illegal if we declare war.

Has Putin declared war recently?

Besides that....

We are just supporting terror.

Who do you mean by "we?"

Do I have to arrest these guys myself?

Feel free to do so. I won't try to stop you.

originally posted by: Hellas
a reply to: DJW001

I say we wait and listen to what Putin will have to say later today and pick it up from there.

Excellent suggestion!

a reply to: DJW001

You seem to think that defeating a group with no fixed abode, no clear command structure, no distinctive uniform, local support and an utter disregard for the Geneva Conventions is easy.

Isn't that the problem they had in Afghanistan?

The same problem the US had there.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Isn't it against the law in the USA for the USA or citizens thereof, to give aid and succour to the enemy or enemies of the USA?

Yes, it is...it's actually SO illegal and unlawful that such aiding the enemy is considered a step above 'illegal' in severity of crime and is termed 'treason'.

Since the US government has a standing and unending war against terrorism, sending aid to terrorists in order for the USA to get what they want in another country by proxy, is aiding the enemy in the so-called 'war on terror', ergo, treasonous for aiding the enemy, aka 'terrorists'.

The thread and the topic under discussion is NOT Russian hypocrisy..the topic is American Illegality, against it's own stated laws and international laws.

Again, if you simply wish to ignore that specific accusation against the US, and instead jump up and down and rant on about how unfair it is that one hypocrite is calling another hypocrite out, you are speaking off topic and you are NOT addressing the obvious and shameful treason conducted by the US government in their aid of terrorists in order to overthrow Assad and get their grubby fingers on Syria (read: Prime pipeline real estate).

Is Russian government hypocrites? Probably.
Are you, me and just about everyone else here, at some time or another hypocrites? Probably.

Is that the topic? Absolutely not.

a reply to: DJW001

everything you said is off topic again...
I was in the Army I still know what's up.
We are talking about the US in Syria.
It's illegal to support terrorism.
And unless you tell me now you don't want to do that, you are becoming a terrorist sympathizer..
Asad is not the enemy.

Are you not following what's going on?
whoops our planes meant to drop the weapons over there but they went here instead where ISIS is..
I'm done with excuses.
Stop supporting terror.
or go to jail.

My commanders told me this would happen..
it's so in the open.