We are alone in the galaxy

a reply to: gortex

Sigh, how the hell are we going to be able to tell if another species ALIEN, to us is intelligent?


We are saying we think we are smarter than what we really are...

I agree, it is absolutely ridiculous to think that we are alone. Even though it is basically mathematically impossible for life to form on Earth, since there is life here, I wouldn't be surprised if there is life elsewhere. I hate that scientists have to be so arrogant.

a reply to: Bicent76

If it's transmitting radio signals from its home planet then it's intelligent , if it turns up here to say Hi then it's likely smarter than us.

a reply to: NihilistSanta

The OP is saying that all of the evidence when currently weighed says that those conclusions are false so far.

what evidence is that ? Please point the way.

Instead of accepting that you merely throw out what if scenarios with no evidence to support you personal longing for life to exist outside earth.

it's just common sense man. You discount something you cant prove. It rather a simple test...point your tech to...I don't know...Alpha Centauri...and give me proof...that there isn't any kind of life form there. Proof. Not a model or a scientific theory...proof. You understand proof ? As in...evidence. Give me data that says...nope...no DNA detected. No life detected..of any kind. Can you do this ? With what tech ? Which device gives you this information ?

So for the according to science 8 billion or so years up to earths creation nothing else developed beyond our own capabilities for us to try to detect?

Really man..I wasn't gonna go there...as to not offend you scientific sensitivity...but you asked. It could be that there are even more advanced life forms than ourselves...but they could be using completely different tech. You are looking for lifeforms based solely on an assumption that it behaves, defecates, eats, same as we do. The fallacy of science...thinking from a fish tank.

But this is an unprovable assumption..one that you can only hope is true.

Didn't Hawking say...that we shouldn't look for alien life as it might be our doom...what if other civs are so advanced that they can hide their signatures from our "primitive" tech ? for exactly the reason Hawking stated...so as not to be destroyed by hostile civs ?

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: LABTECH767

Take this battle over Nuremburg in the mid 16th century.

An invention of Ufologists , the Nuremburg UFO battle were fireworks , the woodcut was commissioned to commemorate a mock battle using fireworks at the castle.

Rendleshem forrest is open for debate but I don't see ET as a viable answer there.

I disagree, it is like a historian putting two distinct event's together that were probably not at the same time.
en.wikipedia.org...
Wiki has a translation of the original 16th century account.

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

More what ifs that conveniently fit your theory. So now we cant detect their communications because they use unknown methods. You also contradicted yourself trying to correct my scientific understanding. If the civilizations are more advanced there would be even more opportunities to detect them not less. Did you even read the Fermi paradox?

a reply to: gortex

13.2 billion years old and I think it would be presumptuous to say we're it, we're alone.

Maybe the reason we haven't had any contact is obvious, they don't want to make an official appearance just yet.

The reason we haven't picked on communications is maybe because a) they don't want to send any our way, and b) their form of communication is beyond anything we can imagine, hence unable to pick it up.

originally posted by: Swills
13.2 billion years old and I think it would be presumptuous to say we're it, we're alone.

Why? We had billions of years of evolution here and intelligent life arose only one time. If it was not for the K-T extinction we might not have ever showed up.

a reply to: NihilistSanta

You keep dodging my questions...show me proof...show me data...

this:

our president has not had contacts with ET...

is not proof of non existence. I had rather hoped...when I scientist claims we are alone...that he should have proof. Last time I heard...it's the way of science...providing proof...not inuendo. Or maybe I'm wrong...si proof these days even necessary.

More what ifs

here's one for you...."we are alone in the galaxy".

So now we cant detect their communications because they use unknown methods.

And that's so far fetched right...because...they must use nuclear power...they must use chemical engines...they even probably look like us...right ?

If the civilizations are more advanced there would be even more opportunities to detect them not less.

How do you figure ?

And can I ask you for a favor...be concrete with your answers. If you disagree...like you seem to...provide a concept at least...with which this could be done.

And at the end...to explain my position. I don't claim to know that there are aliens out there...I claim...we just don't know.

But his guy...apparently does know.

This is something I often ponder, and occasionally despair.

While it's possible that...

• They're out there, but not much more advanced than us and rare enough that we see no evidence of them yet
  
• They're out there, but they are intentionally concealing their presence from other intelligences
  
• They're out there, but are so far advanced beyond our technological and cognitive abilities that they are unrecognizable or invisible to us simply by the nature of said abilities
  
• They're out there, but none of them - or not enough of them - have the inborn desire to expand, explore, and colonize that humanity seems to, and so as such have remained very local to their original star systems and we simply have yet to find them
  

... it also really is possible that intelligent life is so rare, so likely to die out at some point in its development (whether behind or ahead of where we are at present,) and/or so distant and remote, that the probability of our ever encountering them even if both we and they search for millennia, is for all intents and purposes negligible.

I really dislike that possibility, but it it is one which must be considered unfortunately. My gut doesn't tell me that's true. But my gut doesn't count for much in reality, either.

Peace.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Exactly, the Earth is about 4 billion years old and here we are. So to think we're it is quite an assumption.

originally posted by: Swills
Exactly, the Earth is about 4 billion years old and here we are. So to think we're it is quite an assumption.

But I do think we are alone, I do not think intelligent life is ubiquitous. I think we are a fluke of evolution that may not play out across the universe and if it did it is very, very rare.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: Bicent76

If it's transmitting radio signals from its home planet then it's intelligent , if it turns up here to say Hi then it's likely smarter than us.

What if it does not use radio waves. What if it uses something different to transmit things.. What if they live underground, What if their DNA is nothing like ours, hence the world ALIEN. What if they we cannot even see them?



Hope this helps.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I guess you're a glass is half empty kind of guy?

With the universe being about 14 billion years old I absolutely do not think we're it. Earth is about 4 billion years old and we arrived so just imagine who else is out there, some older and some younger, and can you imagine what kind of technology a civilization 1 million years, 10 million years, or 10 billion years older than us would have?

So many planets, so many stars, NASA discovering more Earth like planets every year life surely exists elsewhere. And we're only looking for planets similar to ours for life but life doesn't necessarily need the same recipe as we see here on Earth. Life needs energy and energy comes in all forms.

Neil deGrasse Tyson | Joe Rogan Podcast: Life Needs Energy

a reply to: Swills

We've got to look at the wider perspective here. A lot of our advances on Earth have been dependent on crude oil as a fuel and it took tens of millennia for it to be created. Without those stages of evolution and environmental processes, this planet wouldn't have oil.

Without oil, we might not have the car or aviation industry. I say 'might' because we can't rule out lateral technologies like steam and electricity. Would either of them put us in space or leave enough chemical signatures in the atmosphere to be identified by distant intelligences?

For an alien intelligence to become advanced enough to show up on our 'radar,' there would have to be a similarly extraordinary amount of positive circumstances.

originally posted by: Swills
I guess you're a glass is half empty kind of guy?

No, actually I like to think I am an eternal optimist.

With the universe being about 14 billion years old I absolutely do not think we're it. Earth is about 4 billion years old and we arrived so just imagine who else is out there, some older and some younger, and can you imagine what kind of technology a civilization 1 million years, 10 million years, or 10 billion years older than us would have?

Not completely but I could imagine they would have made it hear by now, particularly if they originated in our galaxy.

So many planets, so many stars, NASA discovering more Earth like planets every year life surely exists elsewhere. And we're only looking for planets similar to ours for life but life doesn't necessarily need the same recipe as we see here on Earth. Life needs energy and energy comes in all forms.

I am not saying life itself is not ubiquitous, because I think it is, I am just saying intelligent life may be a one-of or an ultra-rare event. It really makes no sense why we even came to pass, it was just an odd occurrence in the annals of evolution.

a reply to: Kandinsky

And an extraordinary amount of positive circumstances could be common in the Universe, we don't have the technology to even test our predictions and to discover life on exoplanets yet. So really this whole argument is based on ET visitation, and there are too many claims of UFO encounters to say we have not been visited.

Ufology has too many negative biased opinions about it and too many cover ups. We all know the reasons for the cover ups being that society would panic, we don't know enough about them, they pose no threat, and lastly we might be in contact with them and trading secretly.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Swills
Exactly, the Earth is about 4 billion years old and here we are. So to think we're it is quite an assumption.

But I do think we are alone, I do not think intelligent life is ubiquitous. I think we are a fluke of evolution that may not play out across the universe and if it did it is very, very rare.

Ufos are real. There is something out there, what it is seems to be completely over our heads in understanding. They are out there for sure, we have incredibly limited senses and they are around us all the time, we just can't see them.

We are alone in the galaxy.

Well to quote Bill.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

We are NOT alone.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

Why? We had billions of years of evolution here and intelligent life arose only one time. If it was not for the K-T extinction we might not have ever showed up.

I agree, in earths 4.5 billion years and a trillion life forms only one comes along with potential... We also need to under stand the universe is what 15 billion at best and solar systems were not really formed as they are today for the first 5 billion years, so we do not have unlimited time as many think we do.

Not having radio waves is really not what I see as a lack of intelligent life. It is now an understanding that radio waves are actually active only during a very short period of a civilization's time line, 100 to 200 years or so. Even today what we send out into space is a lot less than decades ago as we get away from omnidirectional transmitters to very focused ones.

What makes me think we are very alone is the lack of machines. It seems that machines would take over at some point during a civilization advancement. Once they become smart and self replicating they could be though the universe in mass numbers within a billion years, not changing as they grow in numbers, replicating over and over. No need to worry about time, distance, evolution etc.