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The two angels, who had accompanied God to see Abraham in the previous chapter, now to Sodom. Lot recognizes the strength and power of these entities. He bows to the ground to them. Lot asks them to settle into his house for food and comfort. Their feet were again washed, as was the tradition. The angels, at first, said they had to go into the square, the common meeting place within the city. However, Lot does persuade them to stay in his house. He baked unleavened bread and other good food.
Before they were going to bed, the "men of the city" (a way of saying the homosexual men of the city) of Sodom came to Lot's house. They actually surrounded Lot's house. These men were represented in all age groups and parts of the city.
The men of the city called out to Lot. They wanted to know where the men were that came to visit Lot. They wanted the men to have homosexual relations with them. This was essentially going to be a homosexual gang rape. This certainly appears to be a brazen, "I don't care" attitude. Now Lot goes out on the porch and meets the numbers of men. He closes the door behind him. Lot plead with the men to not be wicked. Go home and do not bother them. However, the men would not leave.
It is obvious that the text speaks to the practice of homosexuality in Sodom. The cities in the locale of Sodom nd were known to be evil even at their time. In addition, there are many references to Sodom and Gomorrah and the evil there. We even get the word sodomy from this chapter (Jude 1:7). However, the city was guilty of sins including overbearing pride, oppression of the poor, superior manners toward inferiors, and “abominable things” (Ezek. 16:49-50). Together, Sodom and Gomorrah provided a point of comparison for the sinfulness of Israel and other nations (Deut. 32:32; Isa. 1:10; Jer. 23:14). This evil of Sodom is mentioned elsewhere (2 Pet. 2:6-10) The Holman Bible Dictionary summarizes the Bible position of homosexuality:
"In the Holiness Code of Leviticus, homosexuality is considered an abomination (18:22), and such behavior was to be punished by death (20:13).
In the New Testament the early church also considered homosexuality as sinful behavior. Although Jesus never mentioned such behavior, probably because the problem never arose during His ministry among Jewish people, Paul clearly condemned homosexuality. Romans 1:26-27 considers homosexuality to be a sign of God’s wrath upon blind sinfulness. Such behavior is considered a degrading passion, unnatural, an indecent act, and an error, even worthy of death (Rom. 1:32).
Some of the Corinthian Christians apparently had been homosexuals (1 Cor. 6:9-11). Having mentioned homosexuality, Paul stated that “such were some of you” (v. 11). Through faith in Christ they had been “washed,” “sanctified,” and “justified” (v. 11). Paul implied here that homosexual behavior is forgivable through the gospel and that any homosexual temptations should be resisted as seriously as those toward fornication or adultery (mentioned in v. 9). Paul also taught that homosexuality was contrary to “sound doctrine” (1 Tim. 1:10).
The Bible does not recognize homosexuality as biologically constitutional or hereditary (as a kind of third sex), but sees its roots in the sinful nature of man—a psychosocial, learned behavior, expressing rebellion against God and calling for redemption. Such persons are responsible for their behavior. This is a very complex psychological problem with many possible roots or causes, calling for both Christian compassion on the part of God’s people as well as God’s redemptive power through the gospel. The ministry of the church to homosexuals should include: conversion, counseling, education, and support-group relationships."
This is just a sampling of the references to homosexuality.
Gen. 19:8-11:
Here Lot did something very strange to us. He offered his two virgin daughters to the men instead of the men. He pleads that the men not be harmed. They were his guests; therefore, should be left alone and in peace. One may question how a father could do this. However, one must understand the theology and some hierarchy of sin of the people then. It was more evil (if one can accept that one sin is worse than another - NOT Biblical) to have a homosexual rape than to have a rape of the women. So, Lot was offering the lesser of the two sins to the men. However, they did not want to accept that.
The men now condemn Lot. They say that he came as an "alien", a person who came to live in Sodom but did not belong there. Now since he refused the two men, Lot would also be "taken" by the men. They started pressing very hard against Lot and pushed to his front door and were getting ready to break the door down. Just at that time, the two men inside Lot's house cracked the door open, pulled Lot inside, and closed the door. All of a sudden, the two men struck all the Sodomite men, while in the doorway, with blindness. Now the men could not even find the doorway anymore.
Gen. 19:12-18:
The two men now take a reading on the household. Who is there with Lot except his wife? Lot confirms that Lot, his son-in-law, sons, daughters, and his wife were in the house. The angels tell Lot emphatically to take the family and leave town. The angels are now surely going to destroy Sodom.
Were they AWARE the visitors were ANGELS? They ask for 2 men (who they intend to rape).
It was more evil (if one can accept that one sin is worse than another - NOT Biblical) to have a homosexual rape than to have a rape of the women
So, Lot was offering the lesser of the two sins to the men.
originally posted by: Milah
God in the Bible made plenty exceptions for fornication sex, incest sex, rape-then-marry sex, but never homosexual sex.
Ie, Lot offered his daughters to men of Sodom when they demanded sexual relations with Lot's Sons and Son-In-Laws. God later cast his wrath upon Sodom and killed Lot's wife for looking back when instructed not to.
originally posted by: Milah
www.bjm-home.com...
Gen. 19:8-11:
Here Lot did something very strange to us. He offered his two virgin daughters to the men instead of the men. He pleads that the men not be harmed. They were his guests; therefore, should be left alone and in peace. One may question how a father could do this. However, one must understand the theology and some hierarchy of sin of the people then. It was more evil (if one can accept that one sin is worse than another - NOT Biblical) to have a homosexual rape than to have a rape of the women. So, Lot was offering the lesser of the two sins to the men. However, they did not want to accept that.
Now since he refused the two men, Lot would also be "taken" by the men. They started pressing very hard against Lot and pushed to his front door and were getting ready to break the door down. Just at that time, the two men inside Lot's house cracked the door open, pulled Lot inside, and closed the door. All of a sudden, the two men struck all the Sodomite men, while in the doorway, with blindness. Now the men could not even find the doorway anymore.
Gen. 19:12-18:
The two men now take a reading on the household. Who is there with Lot except his wife? Lot confirms that Lot, his son-in-law, sons, daughters, and his wife were in the house. The angels tell Lot emphatically to take the family and leave town. The angels are now surely going to destroy Sodom.
"'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
The two angels, who had accompanied God to see Abraham in the previous chapter, now to Sodom. Lot recognizes the strength and power of these entities. He bows to the ground to them. Lot asks them to settle into his house for food and comfort.
-----
The two men now take a reading on the household. Who is there with Lot except his wife? Lot confirms that Lot, his son-in-law, sons, daughters, and his wife were in the house. The angels tell Lot emphatically to take the family and leave town. The angels are *now* surely going to destroy Sodom.
Yet God in the Bible does not condemn their relationship. Since God in the Bible condemns homosexual acts, but does not condemn them
originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: Milah
Yet God in the Bible does not condemn their relationship. Since God in the Bible condemns homosexual acts, but does not condemn them
Yes I understand your point. If God condemns homosexual relationships so therefore David and Jonathan's relationship was not homosexual. What I am pointing out to you is that the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah (you claimed they were of homosexuality and rape) were NOT of homosexuality. If you want I can list more verses.
I cannot lie; I did think the Sin of Sodom (and Gomorrah) was chiefly its modern namesake, SODOMY.
As for Dave & Jon I believe there is a possibility their relationship *may* have been homo-amorous or perhaps even homoromantic but I give them the benefit of the doubt based on the Bible's presentation of their relationship as a Covenant of Love between two men, that it wasn't lustful nor sexual in any way other than their happening to be both of the male sex!
An iniquity is a really unfair or really immoral act. If you're a journalist, you may uncover a terrible iniquity that forces a famous politician to step down.
Iniquity comes from Latin, combining the prefix in-, which means “not,” and aequus, which means “equal” or “just.” So iniquity literally means “not just.” Iniquity can also be used to say that something lacks moral or spiritual principles. Some would call Las Vegas a “den of iniquity,” implying that sinful or wicked behavior occurs there. Others would just call it a vacation.
www.vocabulary.com...
Yet God in the Bible does not condemn their relationship.
1 Samuel 13
“You have done a foolish thing,” Samuel said. “You have not kept the command the Lord your God gave you; if you had, he would have established your kingdom over Israel for all time. 14 But now your kingdom will not endure; the Lord has sought out a man after his own heart and appointed him ruler of his people, because you have not kept the Lord’s command.”
Ezekiel 16
Your older sister was Samaria, who lived to the north of you with her daughters; and your younger sister, who lived to the south of you with her daughters, was Sodom. 47 You not only followed their ways and copied their detestable practices, but in all your ways you soon became more depraved than they. 48 As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, your sister Sodom and her daughters never did what you and your daughters have done.
49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen. 51 Samaria did not commit half the sins you did.
originally posted by: Milah
God in the Bible made plenty exceptions for fornication sex, incest sex, rape-then-marry sex, but never homosexual sex.
Ie, Lot offered his daughters to men of Sodom when they demanded sexual relations with Lot's Sons and Son-In-Laws. God later cast his wrath upon Sodom and killed Lot's wife for looking back when instructed not to.
Lot's 2 daughters' husbands AND sons appear to have all been killed to? For the Bible says the 2 daughters had no one around to impregnate them, so they got their father drunk and made him impregnant them both.
Anyways, the Bible is clear that David loved Jonathan more than women, and indeed Saul used sexual language to describe his disappointment with their love in his eyes due to the marriage/heir prospects discussed by the OP.
Yet God in the Bible does not condemn their relationship. Since God in the Bible condemns homosexual acts, but does not condemn them (Jonathan dies in battle as does his father Saul), this is evidence that they did not have a sodomy relationship. David was clearly 'in love' with Jonathan and possibly vice versa. Either or both of them may have been homosexual however the message in the Bible is clear: they had a bond that they vowed each other would be held by God even for generations to come and sure enough David adopted Jonathan's only son as his own.
Whether bromance or same-sex love - what's wrong with it in God's eyes, per this Biblical account of Jonathan's & David's covenant? Apparently nothing because the did not have a relationship involving sodomy, apparently.
What is SODOMY then?
And does God condemn it?
originally posted by: Milah
In the Bible, doesn't God KILL a man for simply spilling his seed?
originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Sigismundus
Well, to clarify things, I'll quote what Jesus said on the subject of homosexual love:
"
".
originally posted by: Sigismundus
a reply to: chr0naut
I also find it interesting that that R. Yehoshua bar Yosef ("Jesus") according to the 4th gospel had 'a disciple whom he loved' (Lazarus?) but does not himself make any pronouncements on the subject overtly.