Most homosexuality is a choice

a reply to: arpgme

Oh that explains it.
Survey says?!
...
*chirp chirp*
yea that's like LESS than 1% of 1% of the population.
Nice try, though.
If the "elite" 1% can't run your life, YOUR less-than-1% can't run mine.
Can't have it both ways...
(pun intended, no offense to my bi friends of course. they know what's up.)

After reading through this thread I have to make this observation. Choice is just that - choice. It is independent. One person having that choice does not make it mandatory for everyone. It only means that one person is able to choose which one they want at that moment. A lot of people drink coffee. A lot of people hate coffee. A lot of people drink tea. A lot of people hate tea. Some people like both.

We know people are 'hard wired' to be heterosexual. The lgbt group say some people are hard wired to be homosexual. I don't know which is right or wrong, or if there is a right or wrong. Either way, why cant some people be hard wired with an additional switch that lets them choose what they want when they want?

If we can accept the idea that people can be hard wired in two different configurations, why not three?

My personal belief is in the master plan, but that is my belief. I can have my belief and not feel the need to tell anyone else what they can or cant do, and what is right or wrong for them is none of my business. If at Heaven's gate we find out I was right, so be it. And if we find out I was wrong, so be it. That judgment isn't ours to make and here and now is not the time or the place to make it.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Either way, why cant some people be hard wired with an additional switch that lets them choose what they want when they want?

If we can accept the idea that people can be hard wired in two different configurations, why not three?

No one is saying that they can't choose. The third one you mentioned is what is called bisexuality.

[edit] By choosing I mean you can't choose to be who you are attracted to. You can choose the BEHAVIOR not the ATTRACTION.

If at Heaven's gate we find out I was right, so be it. And if we find out I was wrong, so be it.

And if we find out that nobody was right or wrong?

a reply to: Darth_Prime

I do not think my heterosexual tendencies is a choice. I do not choose women because I like them more than males, the thought of being with a male is rather disgusting to me, the thought of being with a sheep is rather disgusting to me too, so if my choice is based on what I find revolting or not I can not agree I really have a choice in the matter.

For homosexuals who are like me I would think they do not have a choice either. Those that do go back and forth but say they are homosexual are most likely Bi but identify with homosexuals more. Kind of like a a President that is both black and white but says he is black...hehe

a reply to: Xtrozero

I suppose one can decide to eat spoiled food but it would result in uncontrollable vomiting and other unmentionables.

Yes you can choose to eat this:

Love how so many people are getting their panties in a bunch calling this a "gay bashing" thread. Interesting perspective Skyfloating thanks for sharing.

a reply to: Skyfloating

I recently became friends with a 37-year-old lesbian who is married to her lesbian partner. She had a sexual "relationship" with an older man during most of her teen years. She was not aware that this was "inappropriate" until one day she told her best friend about it. She then went through 10 years of psychoanalysis and is now doing very well in her lesbian relationship.

She has also had a few relationships with heterosexual couples in her adult life. I once asked her if she considers herself bisexual, and she said "No, I can have sex with a man, but I need a woman present to turn me on first." I had never heard that before, and am interested in others' opinions about this.

I have not asked her about her sexual preference before the relationship with the older man, but I sort of assume that he may have turned her off to men.

soulwaxer

originally posted by: Skyfloating
I believe that most homosexuality is a choice and most were not "born that way". I say this based neither on science nor religion but on personal experience. I find it unsettling that this view is deemed "controversial" and "unscientific". Usually when I share it, the responses are more angry than calm. And when people get all emotional in defending their views, it casts doubt on how valid those views are.

My personal experience comes from sexual relationships I've had with two lesbians within the last 20 years. I`m a heterosexual male. Neither of the women claimed to be bisexual, both insisted they were lesbian. When questioned about this, the first one looked puzzled and said "I don't know". And the second one stopped being a lesbian after our relationship. I share this not to elicit jokes or brag, but simply to demonstrate, from personal experiences, that the "I am a homosexual" - self-definition is not quite as fixed and solid as is generally claimed.

You see, when it comes to transgendered people, the LBGT-movement claims that "they are not born that way" and that ones gender is a fluid concept, a "social construct" perhaps. But when it comes to homosexuals they claim "they are born that way and that it's something fixed and unchanging. You see the contradiction in this? What if homosexuality is not fixed and that most people are not "born that way"?

Granted, in nature there seems to be a small percentage of humans as well as animals who are actually born with a disposition to desire the same sex. But I`d suggest that their number is much smaller than generally stated. More like 0.1% instead of 3%-5% (some have even suggested that up to 25% of the population are born homosexual).

The other reason I think that most homosexuality is a choice is because, as humans, we can subdue, change or manipulate our desires. Before marriage my sexual desire was all over the place. After marriage I deliberately subdued it to a point where I felt no desire for other women whatsoever. Prior to marriage I could also increase or decrease sexual and romantic desire for certain types of people at will. I realized that while we do have natural inborn preferences, at least half of it is determined by ones own will, life experiences, upbringing and the information one has been fed from early childhood.

All in all, I remain skeptical of the LGBT-communities philosophy that "it's not a choice!" I view that in a similar way I see obese people blaming genetics for their overweight rather than life-choices they make. I`d tend to say that homosexuality is something you DO, not necessarily something you ARE for life (unless you are part of the 0.1%). I understand that homosexuals who have self-defined as such for a long time might strongly disagree just like someone who has smoked all their life might find it inconceivable to quit. Don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting you should not be homosexual - this is not a moral argument. I just think that saying "I prefer the same sex" is a more honest statement than "I was born this way".

The myth of our times is that homosexuality is not a choice and I`d much prefer that this dogma be examined in more detail and that it be acknowledged that much or at least some of it actually is a choice as well as a consequence of childhood experiences.

This:

My personal experience comes from sexual relationships I've had with two lesbians within the last 20 years. I`m a heterosexual male.

I'm sorry, either someone was lying to you or these girls were bi-sexual. True lesbians hate males because of penis envy. They have a hormonal inbalance and want to do the deed, but can't.
I dated a bi-sexual girl, which was fun for a time but once a real lesbian was included in our plans....it went downhill.

a reply to: Kratos40

I'm sorry, either someone was lying to you or these girls were bi-sexual.

Yep he thinks his little experience makes him an expert in this.

Yes anyone can have an opinion on something but don't ignore the countless experiences and the scientific researches we have had.

As much as I love Skyfloating's contributions to ATS this one I will disagree with.

originally posted by: Skyfloating
I believe that most homosexuality is a choice and most were not "born that way".

So what if it is a choice?
Who you like to get it on with is up to you.

originally posted by: Skyfloating
I believe that most homosexuality is a choice and most were not "born that way".

Most people don't want to know the answer to this question.

Here's the problem. If it's not a choice, then there goes "free will." Are humans free to choose any behavior? What about a thief? Is he or she free to decide whether or not to steal? Why do we punish some behaviors, if we have no free will? If we get sick, like catch a cold or flu, and start coughing and sneezing, are we free to stop that activity? We could take medication, and stop it. But, without that medication, can we voluntarily change the automatic behavior brought on by the particular disease? Should we take medication? Or should we let the body take it's natural course, and trust that nature or god will determine how things unfold, so we don't really have to intervene. It's all nature at work. Or, is it?

On the other hand, if it is a choice, then why is any particular behavior acceptable or unacceptable in the eyes of society? Again, if it is a thief, we punish because we believe he or she "chose" to steal. But, maybe he or she is a kleptomaniac, and suffers from compulsive disorder, so we treat with therapy and medicine instead. If it is a choice, we can label it bad behavior, and declare it unacceptable. But, then, that's the problem. Then people are denied their free will to choose their sexual orientation. Why should people be denied their freedoms?

For those that believe in god, the human body has a particular design plan. The plan can be seen in the design and function of the parts. But, god also gives man "free will", to deviate from the plan. But deviation is defined as "bad", in religious contexts, and sticking with the design intent is defined as "good". So, there's a system for determining how one's "free will" should be used. But, no one "has to" follow the plan. A man doesn't "have to" have sex with a woman. It's a choice. He can physically have sex with many animals, or sex with just himself or herself alone. It can be done. But, it is not defined as optimal, or good, in religious contexts.

Religion has a particular view of the world. And that is, that a man "can do bad things", but must never "re-define bad to be good". That would be considered a corruption of the faith, which is based on doctrines that are true for all time.

On the other hand, there's the view of the naturalists. There's no god, just nature, and natural laws. And all living things evolve over time. Who is to say, that being gay is not just the next evolutionary step in natural development of the species?

In fact, we can prove that this is probably the case. After all, we are about to get the knowledge to create new living things. We can already create new types of bacteria and viruses. In the not too distant future, we're likely to be able to create men and women in the lab, using advanced genetics. Once we start creating people in factories, we won't need the woman's womb anymore to populate the society. Heterosexual activity will become depreciated, old fashioned, and eventually "banned."

The problem with heterosexual activity is that it spreads disease. People are born with all sorts of genetic disorders, like cystic fibrosis, down syndrome, autism, cancer, and thousands of other known genetic diseases. Heterosexuals are spreading these diseases, and have been doing so for centuries. Homosexuals spread one disease, AIDS, and get a bad rap for it, but heterosexuals have been doing a 1000 times worse than that for ages. So, it's obvious that it is heterosexual activity that needs to be banned, and not homosexual activity. Mankind has to tolerate this bad behavior for the moment, because the knowledge to create new humans in the lab is still in its infancy. But, once mastered, people will be created in factories, where we have precise control of what goes into their genes, and there will be no more disease.

The problem, however, with banning heterosexual activity, is that a newly born child needs "parents". It takes about 10 to 20 years for a new human to develop and become independent. Heterosexual activity provided the natural motivation for two people, man and woman, to stay together, while the child develops. We needed man and woman to marry, so that the man wouldn't run off and shirk his responsibility, to help look after the kids. And the simple fact is that we needed "heteros" to facilitate both "conception" and "birth". Today, we no longer need heteros for conception, we can do "artificial insemination", but still need the woman's womb for "birth". After we learn how to grow the fetuses in vats in the lab, we'll no longer need the woman's womb.

Now you can understand the real reason for the push for "gay marriage".

Kids need parents, but they don't need a mom and a dad. They just need a financially stable couple to look after them. Before we can ban heterosexuals from producing their own kids, we have to encourage homosexuals to take up the art. That means getting them to want to marry, and after they get this right, the next step is to require all married couples to adopt kids, to prove they are socially responsible citizens of the society.

So, the laws introduced to society have to follow this plan:

1) Gays and lesbians win the right to marry.

2) All married couples are required to have or adopt kids within 5 years of marriage or marriage is annulled.

3) Laws introduced to require people to purchase medical insurance, or accept universal health care provided by the state. This allows the government to put financial pressure on married couples producing their own kids with genetic diseases, making it costly to have a kid with any genetic defect, and pave the way for eventual ban on all natural conception and natural birth.

4) Heterosexuals eventually banned from conception and birth, but allowed to marry and adopt factory born kids to make their "marriage" the same as gays and lesbians. All forms of marriage now become equal.

5) Laws passed to declare the femaie form suboptimal, and undesirable, and no more factory born people are to be women. This leads to the gradual extinctsion of women within just one generation. The gay men dominating the legislature, see no reason for having more women around, and all vote to eliminate the useless species.

So, we can already "foresee the future". The end of the world will be populated by all gay men. Women will be extinct as a species. This is the natural evolutionary path. The female form was just a temporary intermediate step as the human arose up from the ape to the fully functional gods, creating living things at will. Since the female body type has lots of additional problems, like PMS, menstruation, etc.., that the male form is not troubled by, it is natural to discard the female in preference for the male, once we decide to create living things, and have the "choice" of what we will create. Of course, the lesbians don't know that the gay men plan to make them extinct, so they march with them side by side in the gay parades, believing that they are fighting for and celebrating the same things. It's all part of natural evolution. Who can stop it?

Everyone reading the book of genesis should be stunned by the fact that, in the beginning, there are no women.

There are intelligent beings there, with the power to create new living things. But, no women.

There's god (EL), and gods (ELOHIM), and "Sons of God", but no "Daughters of God".

Women have to be "re-created" as a species, once again, after the gay gods get bored with each other, and decide to make "ADAM" and take a rib from him to create "EVE" to recreate this whole timecycle all over again.

The plan is obvious, isn't it? There's no choice. We've been doing the same things over and over for eternity.

Or is it? Can we change things this time around?

a reply to: Skyfloating

Most homosexuality is a choice - was your hetrosexually a learned behviour. Tell us about who taught you to be stragiht. what expereinces did you have that taught you to be straight?

do tell us, as you are obviously an excellant sudy case.

When I was a child I had no male model in my life, that was any good anyway, that taught me to take an interest in girls private parts. Nor did I have any lessons, instruction, advice in how to get turned on by what I saw when I looked that the girls private part.

Why did I hve no idea why I was starting to take an interest in the private parts of girls and started to look at that those parts more and more.

Please apply your knowledge and wisdom and advise how I came to be straight given the circumstanes I have outlined. I am most anxious to learn why I am straight.

thank you for your assistance in advance. - I wait with baited breath.

a reply to: Skyfloating


Thats your opinion and what do they say about those again.

As for the Lesbian you spoke off all that shows she was bi-sexual and didn't know it !

Re not desiring other wowen are you really a man then ? I have been very happily married for nearly 30 years with great kids who have grown up to be well rounded adults with no religion required, both my wife and myself will quite openly talk about others we find attractive would we ever do more than that no !

As for your precenatges of the population who are gay did you just think up some numbers and divide them by another ?

Well since gay people and gay animals have been documented for a long long time it's not a choice, genetics will be the cause will they ever find out how WHO CARES, well nobody but bigots

Talk about a topic close to home.

Personally I think your either born that way, or you make a choice later in life.

For me I believe I was born this way. I dont remember any different, ive always been this way. I never chose this. With the childhood I had why would i choose that...

Regardless I understand your view on this and others. I just make me a little angry when people say we ALL make a choice. Why would we choose to be bullied?

After all homosexuality is observed in the animal kingdom, do they choose? Or are they born like that?

originally posted by: Skyfloating

I just think that saying "I prefer the same sex" is a more honest statement than "I was born this way".

So do you just prefer the opposite sex?

There's a simple test for this "choice" theory.
Take a guy home and see how far you get.

I think people claiming it's a choice are saying more about themselves and their own struggles with sexuality.
If it comes down to preference then you are probably bi.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I know I chose not to do it. Women are sexy!

I don't think anyone (excluding attention-getters) chooses who they are sexually attracted to. Nobody who is honest about their sexuality (not using it for attention) don't wake up one day and say, "Gee, today feels like a nice day to become homosexual." Some homosexual people that had heterosexual relationships in the past grew up learning that men go with women and women with men. They were simply going through the motions of what they were taught was right to avoid being told that their sexual attraction is wrong, unacceptable, or just unnatural. To bring anything up based on such an event does not prove a single thing about homosexuality being a choice.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I believe there are some who choose to be "gay" for attention, mainly on the female side, but in general homosexuality is not a choice, I think it has something to do with how the baby forms in the womb. One theory suggests too much estrogen or testosterone being present crosses the wires so to speak. I think that's the theory that makes the most sense personally.

If a baby is born with a penis that baby is a boy. Boys are attracted to girls. Best part about all that is it isnt a theory. And its so simple even a caveman can do it and the human race continues on.

a reply to: HAZE3

If a baby is born with a penis that baby is a boy.

Boys are attracted to girls.

So people with penises are attracted to girls?

And its so simple even a caveman can do it and the human race continues on.

Oh yeah sometimes I wonder how we even survive at all.