Most homosexuality is a choice

Why should you be unsettled that your view is called unscientific when you admit it's not based on science? It's controversial because it goes against what we as a society know about sexual orientation. Can some people choose? Sure, just like people can choose to have a different hair color, but people are still born with a particular hair color. Maybe a bad analogy but it was off the top of my head… so to speak.

originally posted by: Anonymous007
a reply to: Indigo5

Even though I know you will not contemplate the information I have provided and simoly label me a "homophobe", it would do your mental health good to remain open-minded.

Why would I spend time reading through your fake posts?

Cut and Pasting others work as your own is against T&C...

originally posted by: Anonymous007
Human sexual orientation is a complex trait, influenced by several genes, experiential and sociocultural factors. These elements interact and produce a typical pattern of sexual orientation towards the opposite sex. Some exceptions exist, like bisexuality and homosexuality, which seem to be more frequent in males than females.

Traditional methods for the genetic study of behavior multifactorial characteristics consist in detecting the presence of familial aggregation. In order to identify the importance of genetic and environmental factors in this aggregation, the concordance of the trait for monozygotic and dizygotic twins and for adopted sibs, reared together and apart, is compared. These types of studies have shown that familial aggregation is stronger for male than for female homosexuality. Based on the threshold method for multifactorial traits, and varying the frequency of homosexuality in the population between 4 and 10%, heritability estimates between 0.27 and 0.76 have been obtained.

From a Spanish Medpub article

Human sexual orientation is a complex trait, influenced by several genes, experiential and sociocultural factors. These elements interact and produce a typical pattern of sexual orientation towards the opposite sex. Some exceptions exist, like bisexuality and homosexuality, which seem to be more frequent in males than females.

Traditional methods for the genetic study of behavior multifactorial characteristics consist in detecting the presence of familial aggregation. In order to identify the importance of genetic and environmental factors in this aggregation, the concordance of the trait for monozygotic and dizygotic twins and for adopted sibs, reared together and apart, is compared. These types of studies have shown that familial aggregation is stronger for male than for female homosexuality. Based on the threshold method for multifactorial traits, and varying the frequency of homosexuality in the population between 4 and 10%, heritability estimates between 0.27 and 0.76 have been obtained.

LINK HERE: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Heres a report (I think from 2005) ---- that backs up Hamer.

Michael Bailey, a psychologist at Northwestern University in Illinois, set out the findings at a discussion event held in conjunction with the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science in Chicago on Thursday. "The study shows that there are genes involved in male sexual orientation," he said. The work has yet to be published, but confirms the findings of a smaller study that sparked widespread controversy in 1993, when Dean Hamer, a scientist at the US National Cancer Institute, investigated the family histories of more than 100 gay men and found homosexuality tended to be inherited. More than 10% of brothers of gay men were gay themselves, compared to around 3% of the general population. Uncles and male cousins on the mother's side had a greater than average chance of being gay, too.
www.theguardian.com...

originally posted by: Skyfloating
I believe that most homosexuality is a choice and most were not "born that way". I say this based neither on science nor religion but on personal experience. I find it unsettling that this view is deemed "controversial" and "unscientific". Usually when I share it, the responses are more angry than calm. And when people get all emotional in defending their views, it casts doubt on how valid those views are.

My personal experience comes from sexual relationships I've had with two lesbians within the last 20 years. I`m a heterosexual male. Neither of the women claimed to be bisexual, both insisted they were lesbian. When questioned about this, the first one looked puzzled and said "I don't know". And the second one stopped being a lesbian after our relationship. I share this not to elicit jokes or brag, but simply to demonstrate, from personal experiences, that the "I am a homosexual" - self-definition is not quite as fixed and solid as is generally claimed.

You see, when it comes to transgendered people, the LBGT-movement claims that "they are not born that way" and that ones gender is a fluid concept, a "social construct" perhaps. But when it comes to homosexuals they claim "they are born that way and that it's something fixed and unchanging. You see the contradiction in this? What if homosexuality is not fixed and that most people are not "born that way"?

Granted, in nature there seems to be a small percentage of humans as well as animals who are actually born with a disposition to desire the same sex. But I`d suggest that their number is much smaller than generally stated. More like 0.1% instead of 3%-5% (some have even suggested that up to 25% of the population are born homosexual).

The other reason I think that most homosexuality is a choice is because, as humans, we can subdue, change or manipulate our desires. Before marriage my sexual desire was all over the place. After marriage I deliberately subdued it to a point where I felt no desire for other women whatsoever. Prior to marriage I could also increase or decrease sexual and romantic desire for certain types of people at will. I realized that while we do have natural inborn preferences, at least half of it is determined by ones own will, life experiences, upbringing and the information one has been fed from early childhood.

All in all, I remain skeptical of the LGBT-communities philosophy that "it's not a choice!" I view that in a similar way I see obese people blaming genetics for their overweight rather than life-choices they make. I`d tend to say that homosexuality is something you DO, not necessarily something you ARE for life (unless you are part of the 0.1%). I understand that homosexuals who have self-defined as such for a long time might strongly disagree just like someone who has smoked all their life might find it inconceivable to quit. Don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting you should not be homosexual - this is not a moral argument. I just think that saying "I prefer the same sex" is a more honest statement than "I was born this way".

The myth of our times is that homosexuality is not a choice and I`d much prefer that this dogma be examined in more detail and that it be acknowledged that much or at least some of it actually is a choice as well as a consequence of childhood experiences.

Myth of our times? No offense, but It's only the myth our times in the minds of very bored folks with not much on their minds except ridiculous stuff like this. I think most folks could think of quite a few more fitting concepts that stand as the "myth of our times". I think "most pointless think to give a damn about...of our times" is far more appropriate. Why on earth does it matter? Let's say it is a choice...let's say it isn't....let's say it's a choice and people in the lgbt community lie and say it isn't!! Guess what, some guys lie about their penis size. WHOA!!!! Some women out there get breast implants....and say that they are real!!!!! FALSE ADVERTISING I tell you!! These are some of the "myths of our times" gee golly! Lol...

The only reason the lgbt community ever even discusses it is because they are in a constant position to have to defend themselves over people who are for some crazy reason obsessed with whether it's a choice or not. Here is some advice to anyone concerned with this question: Go get a huge roll of bubble wrap a start popping it while whistling the theme to "the price is right". Not only is a far better use of your time, several peer reviewed studies have shown that doing this uses approximately the same amount of brain cells that are used when contemplating whether gay rights is a choice.

a reply to: Indigo5

Fake posts?

You either do or don't accept their contents.

The information is factual.

I added the cites.

Don't be a dweeb.

originally posted by: Anonymous007
a reply to: darkbake

You realize that Kinsey had mental issues and like to "play" with children?

Prove it.

Provide factual source.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Anonymous007
a reply to: darkbake

You realize that Kinsey had mental issues and like to "play" with children?

Prove it.

Provide factual source.

Too late. I proved this was wrong on the last page.

ETA: Link:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Skyfloating

No one said you "Select" what Gender you want, Being Trans mean you are born into the wrong Outer Body. i don't know how much knowledge you have about Trans People. but you are Born with a Sexuality, and a Gender. you are "Assigned" a sex at birth by a person based on what they "See" but that does Not mean that it matches with your True Gender you are born with

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Anonymous007
a reply to: darkbake

You realize that Kinsey had mental issues and like to "play" with children?

Prove it.

Provide factual source.

Too late. I proved this was wrong on the last page.

Thanks.

I knew there is no proof.

Well, I would hope that peoples homosexuality is their choice. Otherwise they would probably be pretty unhappy.

Personally I've always thought people read too much into genders. I think of it as person A is attracted to person B. If they happen to both be men or women... that's sort of beside the point. Humanity is far beyond the point of being controlled by the instinct to procreate. We... uh... make our own choices. If our brain was inflexible and hardwired we wouldnt even have our modern society. Which would have been pretty sad.

originally posted by: intrepid

Here's the largest logic flaw. You are equating sexual identification(what sex you identify as) with sexuality(who you are attracted to). Jenner is aa good example. Dude's a chick now but he still is into women. He changed the one that was an issue but he's still into girls. Thus he went from a straight man to a lesbian.

Hi there.

Long time no see.

All I`m saying is that what and who you are attracted to can change.

originally posted by: Skyfloating

originally posted by: intrepid

Here's the largest logic flaw. You are equating sexual identification(what sex you identify as) with sexuality(who you are attracted to). Jenner is aa good example. Dude's a chick now but he still is into women. He changed the one that was an issue but he's still into girls. Thus he went from a straight man to a lesbian.

Hi there.

Long time no see.

All I`m saying is that what and who you are attracted to can change.

No, you can't. Hair color or body size maybe. Men or women, no. I've used this analogy before. I "could" sleep with a dude but it will cost a #load of money. That doesn't make me gay. That makes me a whore. No amount of money could change what I'm attracted to.

a reply to: Anonymous007

Plagiarism- copied and pasted that last post. Are you really that stupid to think we are that stupid to realise when we've a troll in a thread?

I love trolling trolls!!

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Anonymous007
a reply to: darkbake

You realize that Kinsey had mental issues and like to "play" with children?

Prove it.

Provide factual source.

Too late. I proved this was wrong on the last page.

Thanks.

I knew there is no proof.

I would not want to take the word from the organization that must defend the dude's life work.

But I understand all about you folks that don't want to learn anything new.

originally posted by: Anonymous007

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Anonymous007
a reply to: darkbake

You realize that Kinsey had mental issues and like to "play" with children?

Prove it.

Provide factual source.

Too late. I proved this was wrong on the last page.

Thanks.

I knew there is no proof.

I would not want to take the word from the organization that must defend the dude's life work.

But I understand all about you folks that don't want to learn anything new.

Provide facts.

You brought it up.

originally posted by: neformore

The fact that you feel the need for debate at all is interfering in peoples lives.

Just a conversation interferes in peoples lives?

Imagine someone decided that they needed to debate an aspect of your life, in public, over and over again. You'd get real pissed, really quickly.

I don't get pissed off if people discuss things that pertain to my lifestyle. They have the right to discuss whatever they like. It doesn't bother me at all.

Someones sexuality is none of your business. At all. Surely you have better things to do with your life?

I`m not interested in what people do with their sexuality. I`m interested in how much of who we are is from birth and how much is through experience and choice.

originally posted by: merka
Well, I would hope that peoples homosexuality is their choice. Otherwise they would probably be pretty unhappy.

I know people who have "chosen" to abstain. So I guess any sexual ACTION is by choice, by defintion. Or else it is rape?

originally posted by: intrepid

No, you can't. Hair color or body size maybe. Men or women, no. I've used this analogy before. I "could" sleep with a dude but it will cost a #load of money. That doesn't make me gay. That makes me a whore. No amount of money could change what I'm attracted to.

Oh sure it can. As mentioned previously, I spent some time in a middle east country where there was a strict separation of men and women. They are just not allowed to get together there unless they are married. So many of them turn to homosexuality. Just out of sexual urge. Then, the minute they marry, they cease being homosexual. I've seen, been told and heard of countless examples of this kind of thing in that particular country. In fact, my time there is what got me thinking about all this in the first place.

a reply to: Skyfloating

I have to say, while I understand this is just your opinion and of course you are free to think what ever it is you want to think, I think your logic is lacking anything substantial enough to even come close to making any kind of clear statement either way. You're using anecdotal proof from 2 out of possibly 700 million people (estimated 7billion world population, using 10% as gay/bisexual) as your sample. 2? Out of 700 million? One of which just couldn't answer either way and the other as far as you know didn't go back to sleeping with ladies after being with you? I am sorry if I can't take you seriously. I think what you are saying is pretty ignorant, not in the way that I am trying to insult you in a passive aggressive way without violating T&C but just in the way that you are lacking anything close to being enough information to make something that even resembles an educated hypothesis. I would guess that the reason people get emotional when discussing this isn't because their views are doubtful to their accuracy, but rather that it is kind of insulting. Possibly more importantly is the other point I would like to address, which is to you but also to Metalicus:

a reply to: Metallicus

Why does it even matter though? Honestly, what difference does it make if it is a choice or not? Either way they are doing what they want or feel they need to do, what business or right does anyone else have to comment or care? What could possibly change if there was "scientific" proof either way? I think this argument is so old and silly I am personally tired of hearing about it. I really truly wish we could all just get on with our business and stop caring what people do with their bodies and who they do it with.