dangerous military aircraft manouvers

To start off I deliver mail near Grissom afb. So I've seen random military aircraft. Mostly c-17s, and the occasional A-10. Well today I was doing my normal walking route when I heard the rumble of a jet. To my surprise it was a Cessna. Now my understanding was they are prop planes. Would like information on this. I lived next to a glider airport most of my young life. So I've seen enough to know what they look like. As they tow the gliders.

The weird part. A large military jet heading west flying at the exact altitude the Cessna flew within a 5 block distance as the Cessna was heading north. Then it pulled straight up and took off. The jet was grey with a yellow stripe on it's belly. This was so close to a headon collision. It seems like they were trying to intimidate the Cessna. Which let me remind you was flying around for at least 20 minutes, and sounded like a jet itself.

Wouldn't radar keep them apart. Or at a safe distance.

a reply to: Crumbles

The military sometimes just does their own thing. indeed they are to keep radio contact with ATC, but depending on training, and from what I understand, it isn't required...as they are the military. The other side of this is that if it was a fast mover, perhaps ATC just lost track of it and themselves screwed up notifying the fast mover or the prop. I highly doubt that they were intimidating...if they wanted to intimidate they would themselves circle the prop and make radio contact.

Lots to assume here with little to no real info outside of your own observations.

a reply to: Crumbles

Cessna makes quite a few business jets, including some that are used by the military. The Air Force, Army, and Marines all fly the Citation V aircraft for certain missions and the DoD bought several as well.

The only aircraft that is grey with a yellow stripe is a KC-135 or KC-10 tanker. They could have been guiding the aircraft to a runway after a systems failure, and they were in the area, or they could have been doing a test for something. The military frequently uses business jets to simulate other aircraft. A good example was when they were testing UAVs for in flight refueling. They installed the software on a Lear and flew it into different positions behind the tanker from the ground, while the pilots monitored from the cockpit.

Most small airports and gliderports don't have radar. Many of them are a UNICOM setup, and some are set up so that the pilots radio in the blind to other planes as they're taking off or landing, and for separation.

a reply to: Sparkymedic

I'm not sure what they call it now, but at one point it was called MARSA. Military Accepts Responsibility for Separation of Aircraft. If they were doing some training missions, or something that would cause ATC to flip out, they'd accept responsibility for staying away from other aircraft, so ATC didn't have to try to jump through hoops.

If the story is true, I feel for the person in the Cessna. A large jet like that can create some serious wake turbulence and ruin the single engine plane's day very quickly.

a reply to: charolais

Tankers have a small wake turbulence footprint. The only aircraft this could have been was a tanker. Wake turbulence behind a tanker would be an extremely bad thing to have to deal with. They would have had to fly directly over the Cessna, which was most likely a Citation model and very stable, at extremely close range to cause any issues with wake turbulence.

I can tell you from personal experience that, on occasion, the military will use light aircraft for simulated target practice. Especially if the light plane is in contact with the tower and you're in an MOA. Makes for fun times.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Thank you for your insite. I would agree with you 100%. Only the military jet was heading west low and fast. The Cessna was heading north low and relatively slow. I stopped every time I heard it circle ahead just so I could try to spot the prop or jet engine on it. I would have dismissed it, but that distinct whine of a jet engine made me look, and scratch my head. After the military aircraft flew over so close to it I didn't see it again after.

Tanker sounds right. It had 4 engines.

a reply to: cmdrkeenkid

My mother has a friend that flies an old biplane. She forgot to read the NOTAM list one day, and was up flying around, looked over and there was an F-16 on her wing. She thought he was just there checking her plane out so waved and continued on her way, without a care in the world. She ended up having a greeting party when she landed, and having a long talk with some men in nice suits.

a reply to: Crumbles

That's a KC-135. One of the two most likely was flying VFR, so they wouldn't have radar following going on to separate them from other aircraft. The tanker was probably doing a local mission, refueling something going overhead, or meeting some other aircraft that were traveling through.

Citation Business Jets

a reply to: Zaphod58

Haha! You can't make this stuff up. Did she get into any trouble? Or knew it was an honest mistake.

a reply to: Crumbles

She got a pretty mild fine, and a scolding from the FAA but that was about it. It was an innocent mistake, so they went easy on her. What pissed her off more than anything was that when they wrote the article up in the local paper, they printed her real age.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Crumbles

Cessna makes quite a few business jets, including some that are used by the military. The Air Force, Army, and Marines both fly the Citation V aircraft for certain missions and the DoD bought several as well.

Cessna made the A-37 Dragonfly which had a pretty impressive survival record in Vietnam. Cessna for the most part never really tried to crack the code on military contracts...the space was just too competitive. Still is.

a reply to: howmuch4another

They make some of the training aircraft that are used for early pilot training, but they've never made an aircraft that really fits into the military mission other than the A-37/T-37.

a reply to: howmuch4another

Textron is giving it a shot with the Scorpion. I heard some of the current/former Dragonfly/Tweet operators are interested in it.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I can't get over how dangerous that sounds. Not sure why anyone would want to fly a Cessna so close to an Air force base anyway though. Watching a few A-10s fly over the city low and screaming.

Woman and their obsession with age

a reply to: Crumbles

That's what led to a collision between a small plane and an F-16 over South Carolina. They had just taken off heading for Myrtle Beach, and the F-16 was doing approach training into a base nearby. He was warned about the Cessna but never saw it, and the two hit, leading to both crashing, and both people on the small plane being killed.

Technically, as long as they stay out of the terminal control area of the military base, they were in unrestricted airspace and were legal.

a reply to: Crumbles

A lot of bases are dual mode. I always had fun flying in Alpena and Toledo during operations. And Toledo is always an active base. Back in the day you could do touch and goes at Selfridge on occasion.

a reply to: Zaphod58

that has always had me scratching my head though....I would have expected them to take a run at something. They were such a quality manufacturer back in the day. I don't know if they intentionally stayed away from competitions but I look at LM or NG and wonder what might have been.
I can say they did more than most in trying to grow the AOPA culture.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Sorry way off topic here. If a real war were to break out would our military use F-16s? Or would we just bring out the big dogs that are stealthy? I know we have a lot of deep black projects, but the chances of them being produced in a large viable quanity are slim. Or would we send in the non stealth after most air defences are down.

Sorry my brain wonders, and I haven't signed on in awhile. Just been looking. I came here for the Alien threads, but found myself reading only the aircraft threads now.