America was Founded on We the People, Not Christianity

originally posted by: MamaJ
a reply to: deadeyedick

our morals and value

Whose?

Individual freedom is what I fight for.

If Jesus were to walk the Earth today it would be the Christians that kill him.

His teachings are not followed.... they are perverted and twisted.

They would try.
yes we are many perverts however the basis of our laws and how to not be perverts is the same so to do away with Christian resemblance in our society would be empowering the perverts even more.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
Are you denying that the moral fabric of Christianity and America are remarkably the same?

You said our laws had 'Christian values', which laws are they?

Now you try and spin.

That would be you and your chronic goalpost shifting.

love god and love thy neighbor as thyself sums it up nicely

Which law is that codified under?


You going to answer the question or are you going to continue to obfuscate and dodge?

originally posted by: Murgatroid

As I also stated in this post, the Lord Jesus Christ was here long before the first Homicide even happened.

Sure he was. Your personal take on religion is irrelevant.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" ~ John 1:1

Nothing like quoting the Bible to prove the Bible. Circular religious mumbo-jumbo.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus
I forgot about your ability to argue in circles

Your questions have been answered and simply wording them differently does not separate them from the original failed argument.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
Your questions have been answered and simply wording them differently does not separate them from the original failed argument.

You have answered nothing. You claimed United States law incorporates 'Christian morals', I asked you for the specific laws. You have provided zero.

You going to provide any or keep dancing around and deflecting?

a reply to: deadeyedick

Your Christian Ideology is exactly what is wrong with the world today. I mean that in the most nicest way I possibly can. Im in no way intending to offend you. I would like to see more people embrace love and not division. Freedom for all people to BE who THEY want to BE and or BE-COME.

It is not up to you or me to decide their choices or fate. The perversion and twist of the teaching you are saying you follow is no way a reflection of Jesus teachings.

The tolerance of individual freedoms are absolutely a God given right to all people.

If people are so naive to believe "God" would have a preference of religion they are brain washed and totally not logical in their thinking.

There are so many who promote division and set them self upon a pedestal while they look down upon their brother. It makes no sense to me how these same people can think they are a saint. There are no saints on Earth. Jesus I AM SURE made mistakes to learn from especially if karma holds true. To be the first Adam and be the Last means he perfected his soul through trials and tribulations. He is said to be a reflection of what we can also become.

There are no souls on Earth that are more important to God. We are equal in the eyes of God.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
Sure he was. Your personal take on religion is irrelevant.

Nothing like quoting the Bible to prove the Bible. Circular religious mumbo-jumbo.

Speaking of dodges, nice job...

Fortunately, most of America's founders disagree with you.

They had no problem taking God at his word.

originally posted by: Murgatroid
Speaking of dodges, nice job...

There was nothing to dodge, it was solely your personal opinion.

Fortunately, most of America's founders disagree with you.

They had no problem taking God at his word.

And they left it out of the laws and the Constitution.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

100% incorrect...

I gave you GODS personal opinion.

His opinion trumps man's every time.

Which obviously is the only reason you haven't attempted to refute what I've said.

originally posted by: Murgatroid
100% incorrect...

I gave you GODS personal opinion.

No, you gave me your personal opinion and claimed it was God's.

Which obviously is the only reason you haven't attempted to refute what I've said.

There is nothing to refute, you have offered nothing but your opinion and claim it was divinely inspired, which, to be frank, sounds a bit mental.

It would appear neither you or the other poster can provide specific laws that demonstrate 'Christian morals' and instead resort to the standard circular argument: The Bible because the Bible.

a reply to: MamaJ

I've missed you. Glad to see you here, MamaJ.

a reply to: deadeyedick
Although I understand and respect what you're saying I want to add that since not all of us are Christians we are not all bound by the same moral code.
I also see a difference between morals and ethics.
I don't feel that anyone is trying to drag anyone down.
If you don't like a certain TV show, change the channel.
If you don't like a certain type of music, change the radio station.
If you don't like certain clothing, don't dress that way.
In the same thought, don't force me to live by Christian morals.
You live your life and I live mine.
It's called freedom.

a reply to: Steve1969
Yes that was clear and respectful.

I am standing by the point that removing any laws simply because Christianity shares the view would leave us with no laws.

That is what I mean by dragging us all down.

That is how many feel when they claim that they want to separate God and government

Going out of their way to make the point that we are not a Christian nation by acting like heathens and accepting heathen laws

a reply to: MamaJ

Your Christian Ideology is exactly what is wrong with the world today

sounds catchy

to what are you referring

I am making the point that if you takeaway the laws that America and Christianity have in common then we would be left with nothing.

The mason wants to pretend that our laws have no resemblance to Christian morals.

Like I stated in another post

Love God and love your neighbor as yourself is the final summation givin to us Christians concerning the law and if you take away any u.s. laws that have commonality to that in an effort to become less Christian then we would have no laws left because it covers it all.

the same can not be said for other religions

if we have a Christian president that uses the final law to justify his thinking then most of his thinking will be in line with the morality of the nation but if we had a openly muslim pres using a different set of religious morality then much of it would be incompatible with our current laws

I thought ben cARSON MADE THIS CLEAR TO EVERYONE.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
I am making the point that if you takeaway the laws that America and Christianity have in common...

Which laws are those?

The country was founded by MILIONS of people throughout two centuries fleeing religious persecution.

As the founding fathers clearly spelled it out for ALL to read as in the fist amendment.

To to worship as they so choose, or not to at all.

That is where it begins, and ends.

And like it or not there has been close to two centuries of Christian influence.

While the founders did not use the word GOD. They used 'creator'. That goes by many names.

From where ALL our rights come from.

To the halls of congress that are scant different than a church.

Someone always 'preaching' something to someone else trying to convert the masses, and taking up a collection plate(taxes).

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
No, you gave me your personal opinion and claimed it was God's.

Once again 100% incorrect...

In fact, this is the primary reason why I stopped reading the majority of posts by mason's on ATS a long time ago.

It's a very rare event that I find anything written by them that is true or even worth reading.

originally posted by: Murgatroid

Once again 100% incorrect...

Uh, no. You said:

I gave you GODS personal opinion.

Unless you have some demonstrable proof that what you are typing is God's opinion then it is in fact your in fact your opinion. And, no, 'because the Bible' is not proof.

I am still waiting for either you or the other poster to show me these Christians laws we have.

In fact, this is the primary reason why I stopped reading the majority of posts by mason's religious nutters on ATS a long time ago.

Se my sentiments above.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: MamaJ


I am making the point that if you takeaway the laws that America and Christianity have in common then we would be left with nothing.

I'm pretty sure it'd be the similar for USA and Islam, or USA and Communism, or USA and Hellenistic/Roman pantheon.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
Completely removing Christian morals from America would kill any government.

Same with islam.

This is how we can know that directly or indirectly America was founded on Christianity.

Or islam

Attempts to show otherwise are in vein and in the long run result in decay of the shared good.

Or an increased appreciation for the fact that the USA was not founded as a christian nation.

Doesn't seem to be too hard to find equally valid alternatives to your silly proclamations.