U.S. Postal Service Has Not Earned a Profit in Almost a Decade

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Corporations and private businesses are motivated by profit above all else, profit over people. I

So are the people themselves.

When we get down right to the bones of the issue ?

That is what EVERYONE is doing.

Profiting from someone else.

originally posted by: Semicollegiate

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: neo96

Privatize everything... you're not advocating for that?

There is not a damn thing wrong with privatization of business, and it sure doesn't make them a 'fascist' contrary to popular dogma.

Do you have any idea of what current federal spending would be if SS,medicare,medicaid did not exist ?

Government 'loans' for education.

Federal spending would be a third of what it is now insteading of printing, and borrowing, and issuing treasuries so that people an go out, and buy more stuff.

The real fascists are those that support the welfare industrial complex.

Do you have any concept of how many people would have starved in our great country with out some of these safety nets? But I suppose to the evangelical right wing asshats in this country that would be ok, because if they starved, they were not right with god.

Do you have any idea how many would have starved?

No you don't.

Heretofore (1935) in this country sudden crises of misfortune have been met by a mobilization of social power. In fact — except for certain institutional enterprises like the home for the aged, the lunatic asylum, city hospital, and county poorhouse — destitution, unemployment, "depression," and similar ills, have been no concern of the State, but have been relieved by the application of social power. Under Mr. Roosevelt, however, the State assumed this function, publicly announcing the doctrine, brand new in our history, that the State owes its citizens a living.

When the Johnstown flood occurred, social power was immediately mobilized and applied with intelligence and vigor. Its abundance, measured by money alone, was so great that when everything was finally put in order, something like a million dollars remained.

If such a catastrophe happened now, not only is social power perhaps too depleted for the like exercise, but the general instinct would be to let the State see to it. Not only has social power atrophied to that extent, but the disposition to exercise it in that particular direction has atrophied with it.

mises.org...

I would agree with you in small town America, where I have lived most of my life, saw it most recently in 2004 when the rural area of FL I was living in was hit by 3 hurricanes in 6 weeks. Neighbors pitched in to help neighbors. This doesn't happen in our Urban areas, as we witnessed during Katrina. There are children in this country that go to bed hungry every day in the United States, this to me, is not an acceptable situation. I don't care what their parent's bad decisions are, no child in this country deserves to go to bed hungry. Yeah I am pro choice as well.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: MystikMushroom

Corporations and private businesses are motivated by profit above all else, profit over people. I

So are the people themselves.

When we get down right to the bones of the issue ?

That is what EVERYONE is doing.

Profiting from someone else.

and this is ok with you?

a reply to: neo96

The USPS was created by powers given to congress by the constitution, it wasn't really ever meant to make money or profit. The USPS was supposed to help with trade and commerce, infrastructure and communication between the states. It ranked right up there with the creation of the Navy to the framers.

When a corporation over charges, any new corporation can enter the market, sell at a lower price, make a lot of profits and either steal away the entire market or force the unfair seller to lower his prices.

Actually, I suspect many mega corps are offering the lowest prices right now.

The problem is not with their service but with their ability to control the government.

Control of the government and oppressive monopoly are two separate things.

The oppressive monopoly myth is not possible without governmental coercion. Without coercion, a mega corp is just another seller. If it tries to sell too high, then competition will take away its customers. Every time.

a reply to: Semicollegiate

It may be your opinion that Corporate influence is a separate phenomenon from both Fascism and market intervention, though it is not necessarily the opinion of all.

"It is not too extreme to call our system of government now 'American fascism.' It’s the control of government by big business, which Franklin Delano Roosevelt defined in 1938 as fascism," Nader says. "We have the lowest minimum wage in the Western world. We have the greatest amount of consumer debt. We have the highest child poverty, the highest adult poverty, huge underemployment, a crumbling public works — but huge multi-billionaires and hugely profitable corporations.

source

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: neo96

The USPS was created by powers given to congress by the constitution, it wasn't really ever meant to make money or profit. The USPS was supposed to help with trade and commerce, infrastructure and communication between the states. It ranked right up there with the creation of the Navy to the framers.

Mystik?

It's the 21st Century.

It had a time, and place.

We have moved so beyond it.

a reply to: BubbaJoe

Wow, prison for profit, really good idea. /sarcasm


Yeah , How did the Privatization of the Federal Prison System come about ? I think it might have something to do with the Federal Government Realizing that is was Costing them a " Boat Load " of Money to Keep So Many Alleged Criminals in Jail , that some Smart Bureaucrat got the Brillant Idea of letting some Corporation do it for them and making a Profit at the Same Time ........

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: BubbaJoe

Why yes people step right up and get your free GMO foods while making the JP Morgans billions, While making the Monsanto's BILLIONS.

Why yes people corporations should be guaranteed income, and why yes pass the 'buck' to the state, and OUTSOURCE that responsibility of their fellowman to the STATE.

Why yes people I just see, all the 'caring is sharing' hell just as long as someone else is footing the bill, and others are doing all the work.

I foot this bill too, but both of my parents and step-parents benefit, glad I didn't have had to foot that bill on my own. In the last two years have seen my 75 YO father spend 7 weeks in the hosp, and my 75 YO mother treated for breast cancer. Step parents also in the hosp at different times. My dad's hospital stay, the quoted price on the bill bested 3/4's of a mil, fortunately, he has medicare, which he paid for his whole adult life, his union health care which he paid for, for about 30 years, and supplemental policy which he pays for ongoing. Not really seeing where someone else is footing the bill on these programs.

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: BubbaJoe

Wow, prison for profit, really good idea. /sarcasm


Yeah , How did the Privatization of the Federal Prison System come about ? I think it might have something to do with the Federal Government Realizing that is was Costing them a " Boat Load " of Money to Keep So Many Alleged Criminals in Jail , that some Smart Bureaucrat got the Brillant Idea of letting some Corporation do it for them and making a Profit at the Same Time ........

And so the corporation running the prisons lobbies for more prisoners, so they can make more profit. How do you logically not see a problem with this?

a reply to: ketsuko

Most pensions are funded on a pay as you go system, as the money needs to be paid out the corporations do so. That's what the USPS used to do, and what UPS and FedEx do for that matter. What Congress did was say the USPS needed to come up with a fund that could pay for the next 75 years in advance. This costs a lot of money, and since the USPS doesn't even get to keep any profit, the fact that they're going into debt to do so is inevitable.

What would happen to UPS if they weren't allowed to bank any profits, and then told they had 10 years to come up with 120 billion dollars in additional profit above everything they were already generating? And then what would happen if a hostile Congress was allowed to mandate some of their business practices?

a reply to: MystikMushroom

" Article I, Section 8, Clause 7 of the United States Constitution, known as the Postal Clause or the Postal Power, empowers Congress "To establish Post Offices and post Roads".


I Doubt the Writers of the Constitution were ever Thinking when they Penned that Article , that One Day , The United States Postal Service would Cost it's Tax Payers 1 Billion Dollars a Year in Operating Expenses which were Not Reimbursed Annually due to Mismanagement and Waste .

originally posted by: AlaskanDad
a reply to: Semicollegiate

It may be your opinion that Corporate influence is a separate phenomenon from both Fascism and market intervention, though it is not necessarily the opinion of all.

"It is not too extreme to call our system of government now 'American fascism.' It’s the control of government by big business, which Franklin Delano Roosevelt defined in 1938 as fascism," Nader says. "We have the lowest minimum wage in the Western world. We have the greatest amount of consumer debt. We have the highest child poverty, the highest adult poverty, huge underemployment, a crumbling public works — but huge multi-billionaires and hugely profitable corporations.

source

What is bad about Fascism is exactly the same as what is bad about socialism. I consider them the same in economic terms. Both systems presume to dictate an entire economy, which always entails dictating every aspect of human life.

Any control Big Business has is from its ability to control the individuals in Big Government. No BG = toothless BB

BB is symbiosis with BG. Big Gov. claims to take control for the good of the many. But all of BG interventions, many of them at the behest of BB, have caused the list of grievances annunciated by Nader. It really looks like the BG did it on purpose, so as to make even bigger government.

Myths in liberal brains

the majority is always right and the US is a Democracy

the biggest government is the best government

dispersion of power is bad

Free markets make monopolies

greed is not motivation

the government does stuff for free, and because it loves us.

inflation is normal

no one should have a care in the world, although everybody knows god is dead and evolution is the maker of reality.

a reply to: BubbaJoe

" And so the corporation running the prisons lobbies for more prisoners, so they can make more profit. How do you logically not see a problem with this? "


I see a Very Grave Problem with that , and my Concern is the Federal Government did that on it's Own without a Consensus of Opinion from the American People . An almost Dictatorial Move by the so called " Elected Officials " we Bestow Power to .

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: BubbaJoe

" And so the corporation running the prisons lobbies for more prisoners, so they can make more profit. How do you logically not see a problem with this? "


I see a Very Grave Problem with that , and my Concern is the Federal Government did that on it's Own without a Consensus of Opinion from the American People . An almost Dictatorial Move by the so called " Elected Officials " we Bestow Power to .

I will agree with this, but there are those in our country that want to privatize everything. While I would agree that privatization works in some areas very well, in others, I do believe greed and shareholders profit would take over, Pharm, cough, I hope these d-bags die of something they haven't even imagine a drug for.

originally posted by: Semicollegiate

originally posted by: AlaskanDad
a reply to: Semicollegiate

It may be your opinion that Corporate influence is a separate phenomenon from both Fascism and market intervention, though it is not necessarily the opinion of all.

"It is not too extreme to call our system of government now 'American fascism.' It’s the control of government by big business, which Franklin Delano Roosevelt defined in 1938 as fascism," Nader says. "We have the lowest minimum wage in the Western world. We have the greatest amount of consumer debt. We have the highest child poverty, the highest adult poverty, huge underemployment, a crumbling public works — but huge multi-billionaires and hugely profitable corporations.

source

What is bad about Fascism is exactly the same as what is bad about socialism. I consider them the same in economic terms. Both systems presume to dictate an entire economy, which always entails dictating every aspect of human life.

Any control Big Business has is from its ability to control the individuals in Big Government. No BG = toothless BB

BB is symbiosis with BG. Big Gov. claims to take control for the good of the many. But all of BG interventions, many of them at the behest of BB, have caused the list of grievances annunciated by Nader. It really looks like the BG did it on purpose, so as to make even bigger government.

Myths in liberal brains

the majority is always right and the US is a Democracy

the biggest government is the best government

dispersion of power is bad

Free markets make monopolies

greed is not motivation

the government does stuff for free, and because it loves us.

inflation is normal

no one should have a care in the world, although everybody knows god is dead and evolution is the maker of reality.

As a pretty liberal type of guy, will try and dispel these myths, although at this point I am leaning libertarian or anarchist.

The majority is not always right, pretty sure the civil rights act would debunk that thought, pretty sure the majority white Americans in 1964 thought things were pretty alright.

The USA is a democratic republic, while I will agree many are not taught that, this is what we are.

I am not sure dispersion of power is bad, when it violates All men are created equal it is bad.

Free markets sometimes do create monopolies, has happened in the USA more than once. For the most part free markets are good, sometimes they get out of control.

Greed is the motivation for all of the hedge fund managers, and the institutional investors. For the average investor, all they want is their dividend check. Speculation has ruined all of the markets in the US, and the average person cannot invest anything, and not expect to lose it at some point. Greed runs Wall Street.

The government doesn't do anything for free, like you I am sure, I have paid SS and medicare for the last 40 years, but I have paid into that. I am 55 YO, have drawn unemployment for 2 weeks of my life, and workman's comp for 2 years, am now back to work in a different field and paying ss and medicare.

A certain amount of inflation is normal, not like the housing bubble we saw, or the dot.com bust in the 90's. Prices are going to go up, everything costs more to make, or grow, or produce.

I have to care about a lot of things, my family, my job, and I do the best I can. For me God doesn't exist, and evolution is at least the most proven theory.

a reply to: neo96

Absurd? Somewhat. But an absurdity that pales in comparison to the multitude of other government fiscal blunders and epic fails.

But privatization? Forget it. I saw what privatization did to the military. No thanks. The government might be about as trustworthy as a junkie guarding the pill chest, but I trust private companies and entities even less.

a reply to: neo96

I want you to explain to all of us what changed a decade ago. Why did the USPS turn a profit one year and then, suddenly, go wildly deep in the red? What explanation do you have for this? Amazon was founded in 1994, so it couldn't have been that. The internet, we all know, got big in the 1990's as well, so it couldn't have been that.

What happened to their money? Did UPS and FedEx just get better in the mid 2000's? UPS was founded in 1907...did it really take them 100 years to get their sh*t together? FedEx was founded in 1971, did it take them 30+ years before they finally took out the USPS?

a reply to: Semicollegiate

Your opinions and some list of nonsensical myths, what a way to avoid an intelligent conversation about the best postal system in the civilised world!

The USPS does not dictate the whole economic system, nor is it a monopoly.

It does how ever give good cost effective service to the American consumer:



source

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: MystikMushroom

" Article I, Section 8, Clause 7 of the United States Constitution, known as the Postal Clause or the Postal Power, empowers Congress "To establish Post Offices and post Roads".


I Doubt the Writers of the Constitution were ever Thinking when they Penned that Article , that One Day , The United States Postal Service would Cost it's Tax Payers 1 Billion Dollars a Year in Operating Expenses which were Not Reimbursed Annually due to Mismanagement and Waste .

No, of course not. Our founders could not have envisioned a global economy with 7 billion people, and a national GDP of 17.66 trillion (with a T) dollars.