Muslim conspiracy

The Muslims say, Jerusalem is important to them, because the farthest mosque (Al-Aqsa Mosque) is in Jerusalem. The say Muhammad made a night journey to the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem, around the year 621 AD, that's a couple of years before he died (8 June 632 AD)

The problem is, the farthest mosque (Al-Aqsa Mosque) was established in year 705 AD, he couldn't possibly have been there !

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: Ove38

The grounds upon which the mosque is built, were a place of worship until the Romans turned it into a garbage dump.
Muhammad is believed to have worshiped on those grounds.

a reply to: Ove38

The problem is, the farthest mosque (Al-Aqsa Mosque) was established in year 705 AD, he couldn't possibly have been there !

Next time read your links before making a thread mocking something. From your link.

The mosque was originally a small prayer house built by the Rashidun caliph Umar, but was rebuilt and expanded by the Umayyad caliph Abd al-Malik and finished by his son al-Walid in 705 CE.

So there was a Mosque already there just not the Al-Aqsa Mosque which was finished in 705AD.

Jerusalem is not mentioned in the Koran at all.

Look it up if you dont believe me.

a reply to: brancolinoxx

You're absolutely correct, not even once.

a reply to: buster2010

I did check " the Rashidun caliph Umar" buster2010

A "caliph" is a "Successor" of Muhammad

The Rashidun Caliphate is the collective term comprising the first four caliphs—the "Rightly Guided" or Rashidun caliphs —in Islamic history and was founded after Muhammad's death in 632 AD. So again, he couldn't possibly have been there !

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: Ove38

I remember reading a book called Jerusalem in the Quran that focuses on the very issue, here is a link to it:

www.imranhosein.org...

Here is a video by the same author addressing the issue of Jerusalem and Islamic view of end times...

a reply to: Ove38
Are we sure that jerusalem has always been in the same location?

Isaac- Ishmael,
The only difference between main religions is that the jews had a revelation of the hole nation, and the others are based on the revelation of a single man, like jesus or muhammad,

Christianity is actually closer to islam, than judaism in that, very important detail,
Allah, as a word means god, its not a name..

And the messianic age will start, when technology allows cloning from ancient bones,(the dead shall walk)
Then all the pieces are all there, it has to happen according to the rules.

Yog sothoth!

a reply to: buster2010

Your wrong At that time Jerusalem was in the hands of the Christians. There were no Muslims living there and certainly there was no Mosque in Jerusalem.the siege of Jerusalem was in 637 this is when Jerusalem changed hands. This just shows just like the Bible there was editing going on after Mohammad died. Even when I read the story to have him riding a winged horse to Jerusalem is a tall tail indeed. I think this is folklore making its way in the Quran this story is very similar to a to one involving Hercules and pygasus. He to rides a winged horse to speak to his father.

The Quran has the same problem as the Bible it all goes back to the Jewish faith. These were common stories such as David or in this case Gabriel. Jewish religion was so ingrained Christians and Muslims know who Gabriel is.

a reply to: 5StarOracle

What does this have to do with this thread?

a reply to: Ove38

Muslim here , you are correct the actual "mosque building " was not built until after Muhammads time .

Prior to that it was a Masjid

The word masjid comes from the root “sa-ja-da” meaning to prostrate, therefore a masjid is any place of prostration. The Prophet Muhammad told us “this earth was made a Masjid for me

This was a difficult time in the life of Prophet Muhammad, and this journey was a great compliment to him. The deliverance of the message was entering a new phase, and the establishment of the Muslim nation was about to begin. Prophet Muhammad was feeling overwhelmed and alone. The vast majority of Meccans had refused to heed his call or accept his message. Both his beloved uncle and cherished wife had died, and this gift of God offered him support and opened his eyes to the signs and wonders of the universe. After travelling the enormous distance to Jerusalem on the back of al-Buraq, Prophet Muhammad reached the area known as Masjid al-Aqsa. He dismounted and tethered al-Buraq to a ring in the gate.

So it was a holy sanctuary , we know from the other Abrahamic faiths that god had designated holy places all around that area for what ever reason .

The "mosque was to be built afterwards upon muhammads orders .

Here is a prime example of why hadith i important , Hadith give more detail on ayats or suras like this in the Quran.

So again the actual building was not their during this time but land and holy ground "masjid" . People often get confused because in English translations of the quran its often replaced with the word *Mosque* . Masjid and Mosque i have sort of the same meaning in English , but In Arabic their is a clear difference. Masjid (being holy ground or sanctuary ) Mosque (being holy building ,ground , etc ) .

Example: English translation

Glory to He Who took His servant for a journey by night from the most sacred mosque to the farthest mosque, whose precincts We blessed, in order that We might show him some of Our signs: for He is the One Who hears and sees [all things]. Quran 17:1

Now the Arabic translation with English letters to give a better example .

Subhana allathee asra biAAabdihi laylan mina

almasjidi

alharami ila almasjidi alaqsa allathee barakna hawlahu linuriyahu min ayatina innahu huwa alssameeAAu albaseeru

Hope this helps .

Kap

originally posted by: Kapusta
a reply to: Ove38

Muslim here , you are correct the actual Masjid ( as or mosque ) was not built until after Muhammads time .

Prior to that it was a Masjid

The word masjid comes from the root “sa-ja-da” meaning to prostrate, therefore a masjid is any place of prostration. The Prophet Muhammad told us “this earth was made a Masjid for me

This was a difficult time in the life of Prophet Muhammad, and this journey was a great compliment to him. The deliverance of the message was entering a new phase, and the establishment of the Muslim nation was about to begin. Prophet Muhammad was feeling overwhelmed and alone. The vast majority of Meccans had refused to heed his call or accept his message. Both his beloved uncle and cherished wife had died, and this gift of God offered him support and opened his eyes to the signs and wonders of the universe. After travelling the enormous distance to Jerusalem on the back of al-Buraq, Prophet Muhammad reached the area known as Masjid al-Aqsa. He dismounted and tethered al-Buraq to a ring in the gate.

So it was a holy sanctuary , we know from the other Abrahamic faiths that god had designated holy places all around that area for what ever reason .

The "mosque was to be built afterwards upon muhammads orders .

Here is a prime example of why hadith i important , Hadith give more detail on ayats or suras like this in the Quran.

So again the actual building was not their during this time but land and holy ground "masjid" was .

You did some unusual double speak there. You basically said the entire earth Is a mosque and then went on to say it was already a holly site from the Hebrew faith. Well of course it was that was the iOS point I believe. And just so you know there was nothing at the site so there wasn't a gate to hitch his horse to. The site was destroyed in 70 AD by the romans. Long before Mohammad times in fact in fact omar visits the temple mount and confirmed nothing is standing. The other problem is your translation.

It was called the Masjid’ul Aqsa “Farthest Mosque” this is a very specific translation not a metaphorical one. Also in the Quran the prophet is specific it's a building.
I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Which mosque was built first?" He replied, "Al-Masjid-ul-Haram." I asked, "Which (was built) next?" He replied, "Al-Masjid-ul-Aqs-a (i.e. Jerusalem)." I asked, "What was the period in between them?" He replied, "Forty (years)." He then added, "Wherever the time for the prayer comes upon you, perform the prayer, for all the earth is a place of worshipping for you."

Notice he separated the three mosques then mentions all the earth like you did. But now if Muslims wish to claim Dominions temple as a holly site fine but as I said earlier that's the point the op was making they took the Jewish site.

a reply to: dragonridr

You did some unusual double speak there. You basically said the entire earth Is a mosque and then went on to say it was already a holly site from the Hebrew faith

yeah , I never said that at all.

its really a play on words .

Also , we don't fully know what was in that area at the time .

Its obvious that their was something their prior to the romans destroying it as you say .

the point is , the actual building was not constructed until after it was ordered . So the Op in essence is correct about his statement .

Of course I'm right, Muhammad was never there, this is not the farthest mosque (Al-Aqsa Mosque) that he made a night journey to around the year 621 AD !

I think the time has come for muslims to give up their exclusive right to this place. I myself would like to pray there, for complitly other reasons, than muslim reasons. And I don't want any circus around me while doing that.

originally posted by: Ove38
Of course I'm right, Muhammad was never there, this is not the farthest mosque (Al-Aqsa Mosque) that he made a night journey to around the year 621 AD !

I think the time has come for muslims to give up their exclusive right to this place. I myself would like to pray there, for complitly other reasons, than muslim reasons. And I don't want any circus around me while doing that.

Well if your Hebrew it's forbidden because Jewish law prohibits ascending the mountain. No Jew can walk on the spot where the Holy of Holies once stood, where only the High Priest on Yom Kippur was sanctioned to enter. It is only after the Messiah comes or the red heifer appears, that the Temple will be rebuilt. Until then, to trespass there is a grave sin.

and if your Christian the spot holds little significance other than historical context. This is why Jews just didn't use the temple mount and when Muslims took over why nothing was there. Jews that truly understand there religion would never pray on the temple mount.

From the link in the OP itself:

Al-Aqsa Mosque
Masjid al-Aqsa translates from Arabic into English as "the farthest mosque". The name refers to a chapter of the Quran called "The Night Journey" in which it is said that Muhammad traveled from Mecca to "the farthest mosque", and then up to Heaven on a heavenly creature called al-Buraq al-Sharif.[3][4] Al-Aqsa Mosque as a whole is confused with a particular building within it, also known as al-Jami' al-Aqsa or al-Qibli or Masjid al-Jumah or al-Mughata; these names refer to the southern building with the silver lead dome.

For centuries, al-Masjid al-Aqsa referred not only to the mosque, but to the entire sacred sanctuary, while al-Jami' al-Aqsa referred to the specific site of the mosque. This changed during the period of Ottoman rule (c. early 16th century to 1917) when the sanctuary complex came to be known as al-Haram al-Sharif.

Considering that Islam considers itself a continuation of the Abrahamic faith, it is really quite silly to think that a "Mosque" or "Masjid" in this context can only mean a place where people of the Islamic faith (as derived from the Quran) worship/ped.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Ove38
Of course I'm right, Muhammad was never there, this is not the farthest mosque (Al-Aqsa Mosque) that he made a night journey to around the year 621 AD !

I think the time has come for muslims to give up their exclusive right to this place. I myself would like to pray there, for complitly other reasons, than muslim reasons. And I don't want any circus around me while doing that.

Well if your Hebrew it's forbidden because Jewish law prohibits ascending the mountain. No Jew can walk on the spot where the Holy of Holies once stood, where only the High Priest on Yom Kippur was sanctioned to enter. It is only after the Messiah comes or the red heifer appears, that the Temple will be rebuilt. Until then, to trespass there is a grave sin.

and if your Christian the spot holds little significance other than historical context. This is why Jews just didn't use the temple mount and when Muslims took over why nothing was there. Jews that truly understand there religion would never pray on the temple mount.

This draws me to the temple mount.

Mark 14:49 "Every day I was with you, teaching in the temple courts"
Luke 22:53 "Every day I was with you in the temple courts"
Matthew 21:23 "Jesus entered the temple courts, and, while he was teaching"
Luke 19:47 "Every day he was teaching at the temple"
John 7:14 "halfway through the festival did Jesus go up to the temple courts and begin to teach"
Luke 21:38 "and all the people came early in the morning to hear him at the temple"
John 7:28 "Then Jesus, still teaching in the temple courts, cried out "

Acts 2:46 "Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts"

originally posted by: babloyi
From the link in the OP itself:

Al-Aqsa Mosque
Masjid al-Aqsa translates from Arabic into English as "the farthest mosque". The name refers to a chapter of the Quran called "The Night Journey" in which it is said that Muhammad traveled from Mecca to "the farthest mosque", and then up to Heaven on a heavenly creature called al-Buraq al-Sharif.[3][4] Al-Aqsa Mosque as a whole is confused with a particular building within it, also known as al-Jami' al-Aqsa or al-Qibli or Masjid al-Jumah or al-Mughata; these names refer to the southern building with the silver lead dome.

For centuries, al-Masjid al-Aqsa referred not only to the mosque, but to the entire sacred sanctuary, while al-Jami' al-Aqsa referred to the specific site of the mosque. This changed during the period of Ottoman rule (c. early 16th century to 1917) when the sanctuary complex came to be known as al-Haram al-Sharif.

Considering that Islam considers itself a continuation of the Abrahamic faith, it is really quite silly to think that a "Mosque" or "Masjid" in this context can only mean a place where people of the Islamic faith (as derived from the Quran) worship/ped.

At the time of Muhammads night journey, all mosques were in the area we today call Saudi Arabia.

a reply to: Ove38
At the time of Muhammad's night journey, there was no such thing as what a person today would call a "Mosque". The Ka'aba was under the control of the pagan Meccans (who did their pagan rituals there while Muhammad prayed to God) and Muhammad had not yet migrated to Medina (near where there is the first religious structure he built, also what a person today might call a mosque).

A mosque (masjid in arabic) is just a word for a place of worship. It literally means "Place of prostration", and is used on occasion in the Quran to refer to the places pre-Muhammad people prayed to God when it isn't explicitly mentioned that they were Christians or Jews (such as in reference to the story of the Seven Sleepers). Today, obviously, it refers to a place where muslims go to pray, often with a dome and minaret, with a person calling out the call to prayer, etc., but retroactively applying that superficial definition to a time when Islam was just beginning doesn't really make sense.