So are masons the bad guys or the good guys?

Also, to be fair, I'm talking about religious, not religion.

Religious as a descriptor that to me(and i'm sure many others, as well as some of the accepted definitions), means someone who believes in a creator, deity or supreme being.

originally posted by: MisterSpock
What benefit to the organization does this requirement give?

There is no benefit to the orginization, only to the individual Mason as the teachings revolve around monotheism among other philosophies.

originally posted by: MisterSpock
Also, to be fair, I'm talking about religious, not religion.

Religious as a descriptor that to me(and i'm sure many others, as well as some of the accepted definitions), means someone who believes in a creator, deity or supreme being.

Not it does not:

ADJECTIVE


1.
relating to or believing in a religion:

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: MisterSpock
What benefit to the organization does this requirement give?

There is no benefit to the orginization, only to the individual Mason as the teachings revolve around monotheism among other philosophies.

In these monotheism teachings, the belief that there is only one God, do they specify which one they are referring to?

a reply to: Jordan River

I know one and I love Her.

originally posted by: MisterSpock
In these monotheism teachings, the belief that there is only one God, do they specify which one they are referring to?

Yeah, God. But we only use that word becuase we are an English-speaking lodge.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: MisterSpock
In these monotheism teachings, the belief that there is only one God, do they specify which one they are referring to?

Yeah, God. But we only use that word because we are an English-speaking lodge.

I'm not familiar with all the religions around the world, but don't some have a believe structure that involves multiple gods. How would a member of one of those religions relate to those teachings?

I could also see the benefit of these teachings to someone who would fail to meet the criteria to become a member. Arguably they may be even more important to such a person.

originally posted by: MisterSpock
I'm not familiar with all the religions around the world, but don't some have a believe structure that involves multiple gods. How would a member of one of those religions relate to those teachings?

Neither am I, you would need to ask them specifically what their beliefs were.

I could also see the benefit of these teachings to someone who would fail to meet the criteria to become a member. Arguably they may be even more important to such a person.

It would not. You cannot teach belief, the candidate must come with their own.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: MisterSpock

It would not. You cannot teach belief, the candidate must come with their own.

It would not. You cannot teach belief, the candidate must come with their own.

I guess I misunderstood what some of these teachings were, assuming them to be a bit more general or of a philosophical nature. Obviously I don't know what the topics are or how the are presented.

You, having heard these teachings, are obviously more aware of their content to come to a conclusion such as they would not have an effect on a non believer.

I'd love to hear some of these teachings. Because I do find that hard to believe.

Even though I, currently, have no belief in a god. I have read, and continue to read, about religious and philosophical teachings from any religion, regardless of how I view the validity of them.

In doing so, I have been often been able to identify with and come away with something positive in most cases.

originally posted by: MisterSpock

You, having heard these teachings, are obviously more aware of their content to come to a conclusion such as they would not have an effect on a non believer.

I'd love to hear some of these teachings. Because I do find that hard to believe.

They revolve around monotheism. I find it odd you would say it is hard to believe a non-monotheist would find benefit from them.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: MisterSpock

You, having heard these teachings, are obviously more aware of their content to come to a conclusion such as they would not have an effect on a non believer.

I'd love to hear some of these teachings. Because I do find that hard to believe.

They revolve around monotheism. I find it odd you would say it is hard to believe a non-monotheist would find benefit from them.

Not to sound like a PBS commercial, but I think any amount of knowledge or experience is beneficial. Whether or not it pertains to ones personal beliefs or biases.

Just out of curiosity, do these teachings or lessons contain any wisdom or quotes from god?

originally posted by: MisterSpock

Not to sound like a PBS commercial, but I think any amount of knowledge or experience is beneficial. Whether or not it pertains to ones personal beliefs or biases.

If you want to learn Kung-Fu are you going to go to a Karate dojo?

Just out of curiosity, do these teachings or lessons contain any wisdom or quotes from god?

There are a few Old Testament quotes mixed into the ritual but nothing that is deemed directly attributable.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: MisterSpock

Not to sound like a PBS commercial, but I think any amount of knowledge or experience is beneficial. Whether or not it pertains to ones personal beliefs or biases.

If you want to learn Kung-Fu are you going to go to a Karate dojo?

Just out of curiosity, do these teachings or lessons contain any wisdom or quotes from god?

There are a few Old Testament quotes mixed into the ritual but nothing that is deemed directly attributable.

Just because I'm learning Kung-Fu, doesn't mean I wouldn't learn something and possibly improve my art by visiting a Karate Dojo. I think that analogy fits better with what I was trying to get across.

But then again, it's not like you could possibly take bits and pieces from several martial art forms and come away with anything unique or usable.........

I'm guessing that you wouldn't be able to provide me with any examples of the material that you guys cover, either here or via personal messages.

a reply to: theMediator
Why is it that anti-Masons/non-Masons think they know more about Freemasonry than actual Masons?

This is whole argument about "low level" and "upper level" is truly condescending and poor anti-Masonic argument, and not accurate of the actual hierarchy of Freemasonry. Also note that degree doesn't equal rank in Freemasonry.

They know nothing, in fact, most don't even know there are higher ranks because that's what they are told. Need to know basis.

Where do you guys come up with this stuff? This isn't true of Freemasonry at all.

Masons are like recuitment camp and individually they will never know who goes up in ranks, usually anything past Master mason.

This isn't true of Freemasonry at all. I've joined several groups that some may consider "higher degrees", some of them even "invitational."

So, we can't trust masons on ATS, none of them. They are either liars or ignorant.

You're the liar here.

In fact, I wouldn't trust any other them to govern us because their oaths usually come before the population.

[BUZZER!] Incorrect. None of our obligations, oaths, or vows do not interfere with our duties we owe to God, country, family, friends, etc.

originally posted by: MisterSpock
Just because I'm learning Kung-Fu, doesn't mean I wouldn't learn something and possibly improve my art by visiting a Karate Dojo. I think that analogy fits better with what I was trying to get across.

Not what I asked you, I was quite clear in my analogy.

I'm guessing that you wouldn't be able to provide me with any examples of the material that you guys cover, either here or via personal messages.

I can discuss the lessons, do you just want a random piece of the ritual?

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: MisterSpock
Just because I'm learning Kung-Fu, doesn't mean I wouldn't learn something and possibly improve my art by visiting a Karate Dojo. I think that analogy fits better with what I was trying to get across.

Not what I asked you, I was quite clear in my analogy.

I'm guessing that you wouldn't be able to provide me with any examples of the material that you guys cover, either here or via personal messages.

I can discuss the lessons, do you just want a random piece of the ritual?

I would like to hear some of the teachings, if they are not too long or obscure without a large amount of reference material(that I wouldn't expect you to take the time and provide).

Just some material for curiosity sake.

a reply to: Jordan River

Why do we have to have such narrow descriptions as "good guys" and "bad guys"? I'm pretty sure that the Masons are just a bunch of guys who get together and do things. Maybe they are good, maybe they are bad. Such black and white descriptions seem silly to me.

originally posted by: whenandwhere
If you mean 33rd degree Scottish Rite Masons , then they mean jack sh!t to us in the Blue Lodge and have about as much power as the girl scout next door to me .

Nicely put, sir!

I have a hard enough time in Blue, let alone Chapter. I couldn't imagine Scottish Rite on top of that!

a reply to: MisterSpock

One of my favorite quotes is from the Entered Apprentice lecture:

The greatest of these is Charity; for Faith is lost in sight, Hope ends in fruition, but Charity extends beyond the grave, through the boundless realms of eternity.

originally posted by: MisterSpock
In these monotheism teachings, the belief that there is only one God, do they specify which one they are referring to?

But even THAT is in question these days, as in, *what* is one's definition of God?

I'm a MM and I do not believe in a God in the traditional sense. I believe in life and energy; we all come from the same thing and all return to it. That's my "High Power" or "Architect" of the universe.

It's simply about believing in something "greater" than yourself. At least, this is my take on it.

And hey - they still let me in!