World flood, did it happen, can it happen again?

a reply to: intrepid
The story of Gilgamesh preceded Homer by good amount of time.

a reply to: Phage

Yeah, catch my edit.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: stormbringer1701

Contra-wise God sez it ain't happening either

Where did God say that water is not locked in minerals in the mantle?

No he said the world would not be flooded again. and in the flood narrative itself some of the flood water came from the fountains of the deep.

hence the water is not coming up from the fountains of the deep again.

originally posted by: flanimal4114
a reply to: Kandinsky
If all water on earth today was in the ocean would it not flood the earth???

nope

we would lose a fair bit of coastline and most areas at low elevation
but the earth would be nowhere near flooded
(you would also have much bigger weather related problems to worry about if all the ice on earth melted)

there is simply not enough water for a global flood to be plausible
regional perhaps.....even likely...... global....... not a snowballs chance in the devils anus

www.businessinsider.com...

heres a fun video

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: Phage

Yeah, catch my edit.

i don't think so. Bible skeptics pretty much claim that the Gilgamesh tale preceded the Noah flood in authorship and thus that The OT writers plagiarized from the Gilgamesh flood narrative. I don't agree though.

a reply to: stormbringer1701

Bible skeptics pretty much claim that the Gilgamesh tale preceded the Noah flood in authorship and thus that The OT writers plagiarized from the Gilgamesh flood narrative.

The point was about Homer, not the Old Testament.
I don't think the retelling of mythological tales constitutes plagiarism, since there are no original authors of myths.

I think the world has been flooded everytime a new paradigm takes place.

Well in the bible the great flood happened because of the water that is below us and above us.

Even science thinks so, that enough water exists below us to flood us if it was to surface.

But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. (Genesis 2:5-6).

And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth. In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. (Genesis 7:10-11).

Cities, stairs leading to nowhere, and so on, have been discovered by deep-sea ocean explorers on the ocean floor in various locations. And, many of these explorers believe more will be discovered over time.

What about a series of Tsumani's that altered the landscape over a period of time. I think that is quite possible and more likely than severe flooding from hurricanes, cyclones and heavy rainstorms.

originally posted by: Jana12
Cities, stairs leading to nowhere, and so on, have been discovered by deep-sea ocean explorers on the ocean floor in various locations.

Source, please.

the katabol happened before line three of the creation narrative. it happened because an order of angels led by a wayward kerubim led 1/3 of the heavenly host astray and caused a further 1/3 to be fence sitters with only 1/3 openly siding with God. at that time the angels had a body that was or at least could be material though not the present degenerate flesh we all have now. When they were materialized on earth they built cities, nations and technologies and everything. it was this age of existence that God showed Job in a vision.

When God acted to punish the fallen angels and fence sitters the earth was basically made a water covered ruin; the state you find it in line two of the creation narrative.

Isaiah 45:18

For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

the words here for "vain" is the exact same word in genesis 1:2 Tohou and vauhou. so in Isaiah 45:18 the prophet of God is saying the opposite of what the KJV translation says in Gen 1:2.

But if you go back to the original MSs there is a problem in Gen 1:2:

KJV has that passage as:

Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

but the word they translated as "was" can also mean and most probably does mean "became." hence:

Now the earth *became* formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

This is supported in the original language and eliminates a seeming contradiction in the bible. there are a a few other scriptural verses that witness to this latter translation.





that was the global flood. Noah's flood did not have to be global.

www.biblestudysite.com...

Below are several excerpts from correspondences about Noah's Flood:

In the flood Scriptures, the words “earth & heavens” can be local and not global. The can also mean the earth as a land orl and not glob and the heavens as the visible arch of the sky. The earth being round allows that it could have been referring to the heavens viable from the flood locale. I know how they read in the English, but observe the Hebrew definitions from the Strong’s Concordance:

Gen 7:19
19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven , were covered. (KJV)

Definitions for above:

earth: Hebrew word #776 'erets (eh'-rets); from an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or partitively a land): KJV-- X common, country, earth, field, ground, land, X nations, way, + wilderness, world.

heaven: Hebrew word #8064 shamayim (shaw-mah'-yim); dual of an unused singular shameh (shaw-meh'); from an unused root meaning to be lofty; the sky (as aloft; the dual perhaps alluding to the visible arch in which the clouds move, as well as to the higher ether where the celestial bodies revolve): KJV-- air, X astrologer, heaven (-s).

To illustrate the sometimes confusing English translations in our Bible (and showing why a Strong’s concordance is a most valuable study aid), I supple Cain’s discussion with God after God told Cain his punishment. Observe the use of the English phrase “thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth”. Here the word(s) “the earth” means ‘soil’ (Strong’s # 127). Surely Cain did not mean “off the face of the whole planet”. For Cain was driven of that soil that he was on into the land of Nod. Cain’s driving away was not global any more that the flood of Noah was global:

Gen 4:13-14
13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth [earth here = erets, as in the flood Scripture above]; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me. (KJV)

now a bit about the word katabol ( and the first flood) and its real meaning in translation from Bulinger's Companion bible appendix 146:

To arrive at the true meaning of this expression, we must note that there are two words translated "foundation" in the New Testament: (1) themelios, and (2) katabole.

The Noun, themelios, occurs in Luke 6:48-49, 14:29, Acts 16:26, Romans 15:20, 1Corinthians 3:l0-12, Ephesians 2:20, 1Timothy 6:19, 2Timothy 2:19, Hebrews 6:1, 11:10, Revelation 21:14,19. It is never used of the world (kosmos) or the earth (ge). The corresponding Verb (themelioo) occurs in Matthew 7:25, Luke 6:48, Ephesians 3:17, Colossians 1:23, Hebrews 1:10 and 1Peter 5:10. The verb is only once used of the earth (ge). Hebrews 1:10.

A comparison of all these passages will show that these are proper and regular terms for the English words "to found", and "foundation".

The Noun, katabole, occurs in Matthew 13:35, 25:34, Luke 11:50, John 17:24, Ephesians 1:4, Hebrews 4:3, 9:26 , 11:11, 1Peter 1:20, Revelation 13:8, 17:8 and the corresponding Verb (kataballo) occurs in 2Corinthians 4:9, Hebrews 6:1 and Revelation 12:10.

A comparison of all these passages (especially 2Corinthians 4:9 and Revelation 12:10) will show that kataballo and katabole are not the proper terms for founding and foundation, but the correct meaning is casting down, or overthrow.

Consistency, therefore, calls for the same translation in Hebrews 6:1, where, instead of "not laying again", the rendering should be "not casting down". That is to say, the foundation already laid, of repentance, etc., was not to be cast down or overthrown, but was to be left and progress made unto the perfection.

Accordingly, the Noun katabole, derived from, and cognate with the Verb, ought to be translated "disruption", or "ruin".

The remarkable thing is that in all occurrences (except Hebrews 11:11) the word is connected with "the world" (Greek kosmos. Appendix 129.1), and therefore the expression should be rendered "the disruption (or ruin) of the world", clearly referring to the condition indicated in Genesis 1:2, and described in 2Peter 3:5-6. For the earth was not created tohu (Isaiah 45:18) but became so, as stated in the Hebrew of Genesis 1:2 and confirmed by 2Peter 3:6, where "the world that then was by the word of God" (Genesis 1:1), perished and "the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word" were created (Genesis 2:4), and are "kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment" (2Peter 3:7) which shall usher in the "new heavens and the new earth" of 2Peter 3:13.

"The disruption of the world" is an event forming a great dividing line in the dispensations of the ages. In Genesis 1:1 we have the founding of the world (Hebrews 1:10 = themelioo), but in Genesis 1:2 we have its overthrow.

This is confirmed by a further remarkable fact, that the phrase, which occurs ten times, is associated with the Preposition apo = from (Appendix 104. iv) seven times, and with pro = before (Appendix 104. xiv) three times. The former refers to the kingdom, and is connected with the "counsels" of God; the latter refers to the Mystery (or Secret; See Appendix 193) and is connected with the "purpose" of God (see John 17:24, Ephesians 1:4, 1Peter 1:20).

Ample New Testament testimony is thus given to the profoundly significant fact recorded in Genesis 1:2, that "the earth became tohu and bohu (i.e. waste end desolate); and darkness was on the face of the deep", before the creation of "the heavens and the earth which are now" (2Peter 3:7).

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance

originally posted by: Jana12
Cities, stairs leading to nowhere, and so on, have been discovered by deep-sea ocean explorers on the ocean floor in various locations.

Source, please.

I remember back in the summer of 2001 Nat-Geo did a spectacular series of documentaries about ancient structures/rocks/cities at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean. And, a team of underwater explorers in the area of Yonaguni, Japan had also discovered many underwater cities, including stairs and other underwater/bottom of the ocean floor structures and Megalithic sites in remote areas never before visited. There were.are many amazing photos/write-ups about it.

I would have provided Links/Photos and such, but I can't go to the sites, as I am working night and day on a major (non-related) project and literally had only 3 minutes to send you a reply.

But google the above search terms/information and see for yourself. If I had the the time I'd start a thread on it, as it is quite amazing. Check them out. There's tons of info out there and many, many sites about this. Enjoy! JANA

originally posted by: bitsforbytes
Well in the bible the great flood happened because of the water that is below us and above us.

Even science thinks so, that enough water exists below us to flood us if it was to surface.

Above? It could never rain enough to flood the whole planet.

Below? Science doesn't think so, from your own link:

Water in the mantle isn't in pools or lakes, but rather tiny droplets caught in microscopic spaces between the mantle's crystals .

Tiny droplets... microscopic spaces.

a reply to: flanimal4114

The story of the flood originated with the Epic of Gilgamesh (Utnapishtim and his ark called 'The Preserver of Life'). The story then traveled from the Tigris-Euphrates valley to Palestine via Abraham, if I am recalling correctly from a Humanities course I once took.

The Tigris-Euphrates valley was prone to unpredictable flooding -- hence the building of ziggurats and the bleak religious beliefs that gods punished people with flooding.

A flood in Palestine is almost unfathomable.


EDIT: I see now that people have already covered this.

originally posted by: Agartha

originally posted by: bitsforbytes
Well in the bible the great flood happened because of the water that is below us and above us.

Even science thinks so, that enough water exists below us to flood us if it was to surface.

Above? It could never rain enough to flood the whole planet.

Below? Science doesn't think so, from your own link:

Water in the mantle isn't in pools or lakes, but rather tiny droplets caught in microscopic spaces between the mantle's crystals .

Tiny droplets... microscopic spaces.

There's an interesting theory that water within the earth became heated and caused steam to eventually expand the earth explosively. It's called the expanding earth theory and probably fits in with the 'Hollow Earth' theory.

From what I have read -- which is by no means exhaustive -- at some point the expanding Earth theory was the leading scientific theory.

It was eventually overcome by the theory of subduction.

***

EDIT: Ha! But i see now your profile name suggests you are familiar with the Hollow Earth theory.

I wonder if you have spent time looking at the expanding Earth theory, too?

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

There's an interesting theory that water within the earth became heated and caused steam to eventually expand the earth explosively. It's called the expanding earth theory and probably fits in with the 'Hollow Earth' theory.

From what I have read -- which is by no means exhaustive -- at some point the expanding Earth theory was the leading scientific theory.

It was eventually overcome by the theory of subduction.

***

EDIT: Ha! But i see now your profile name suggests you are familiar with the Hollow Earth theory.

I wonder if you have spent time looking at the expanding Earth theory, too?

LOL yes, my profile name came from the myth of Agartha... I was fascinated by it when I was young, still am in a way (big Jules Verne fan, that's why! lol)

I am familiar with the expanding Earth theory and many years ago I actually believed it, but not anymore as it doesn't make sense and it's simply not possible:

-If the Earth is really expanding and 'growing' bigger, where is the new matter coming from? There is no way to make new matter, Earth is not creating new matter and it obviously doesn't come from somewhere else... so that excludes the growing bigger.

-If the Earth is stretching, then some mountain ranges like the Himalayas wouldn't be getting taller every year, they would be getting shorter and longer... so that excludes the stretching theory.

This is what I personally think, may not be everybody's cup of tea but it's what I think makes sense.

a reply to: Agartha

I always loved the Hollow Earth theories, too.

What I meant by linking the expanding earth theory to the hollow earth theory is that new matter is not what made the earth expand. I was intending to link the idea of steam exploding from within the earth causing a hollow space to form but making it appear larger. No extra matter, just more hollow space within.

I agree about the science and physics of something like that happening stands in the way. Particularly the theory of subduction, as I mentioned. But I still have fun imagining it and enjoy reading stories about inner earth, too.

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance

originally posted by: Jana12
Cities, stairs leading to nowhere, and so on, have been discovered by deep-sea ocean explorers on the ocean floor in various locations.

Source, please.

Was rushed here (on a deadline) and didn't get to complete my reply in my post on the previous page. These ancient ocean floor ruins, rock formations/stairs and ocean floor cities (and especially those in Yonaguni, Japan) are why I believe there were several major Tsumanis within a short time-frame --- maybe one set off another... so, Tsunamis... that's my theory.

If I had time to start/keep up with a thread on theories regarding these ancient ocean floor ruins/cities I would. Inspired anyone?