The evidence you want, the evidence you need...?

I have never honestly trusted hypnosis, but I figured that was just because I can't apparently be hypnotized so I figured it was just some fake crap that some people fell for. Sorry for how that may sound. Maybe there is something to it but I still don't trust it as real. It just rubs me the wrong way somehow.

a reply to: Wickedjr89

Hypnosis is real. The memories drawn out during hypnosis aren't necessarily reliable though. I've seen a magician apparently hypnotize an audience member at a live show. I'm fairly sure that's fake. As far as I know, it can't be done with the reliability that would be required for a live show. If you did, you'd have numerous failures, and you'd have to wait through a boring process before they started doing their tricks under hypnosis.

a reply to: Wickedjr89

Welcome to ATS by the way.

If the memories aren't reliable then how can it be real? Real in what, creating fake memories? I'm sorry but if that's "real" than no thanks, I want no part in creating fake, often hurtful, memories that never even happened. And the failures does make sense though. Many hypnotists i've seen seem to have 100% success and they say it never fails...which is just false. I've also heard, like you just said, that it doesn't always work and it's never worked on me, not once. It just makes me think someone has to be very weak willed and gullible to think it does. And if it does sometimes work but the memories aren't reliable then to me, that still is not considered working if what it creates is false.

I'm sorry for how harsh this all sounds, I just can't believe or trust hypnosis. And I believe in a lot of weird stuff. Aliens, so-called conspiracies, magic (i'm pagan)...

And thank you.

a reply to: Wickedjr89
The word is "suggestible". Some people are suggestible enough where they even think they can be hypnotized.

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

Ah, yeah, sorry.

Just because someone suggests something does not make it true to me.

originally posted by: Wickedjr89
a reply to: ZetaRediculian

Ah, yeah, sorry.

Just because someone suggests something does not make it true to me.

Well then, let me suggest that I dont disagree. you may right that there is no special state called "hypnotized". What I am saying is that there are only different levels of suggestibility. Its like you have to believe in it for it to work. Like your Pagan magic or a placebo.

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

You make a good point there. Magic isn't going to work if you don't believe it will, neither will a placebo. But even if all it is is a placebo if it helps someone and isn't harming anyone...then it would be a good thing. I guess then my gripe with hypnotism is if it creates harmful memories that never even happened, thus hurting someone when it didn't need to.

I know the human brain is not perfect, far from it. It is easily tricked even in a smart sane sober person it will still fail. But if I can't trust my own brain then what can I trust? It's the best thing I got as far as memories go. Painful memories often stick better in the brain anyway, though I can see how if it's that horrible, especially if it's in a child, can also be blocked out by the brain and forgotten.

a reply to: Wickedjr89

I guess then my gripe with hypnotism is if it creates harmful memories that never even happened, thus hurting someone when it didn't need to

"hypnosis" is really good for helping people lose weight and stopping people from smoking. there is no evidence whatsoever for it to aid in the recovery of memories. The whole idea was wrong. And yes it has been harmful.

But if I can't trust my own brain then what can I trust?

Its probably a good idea to write things down and take pictures.

Painful memories often stick better in the brain anyway, though I can see how if it's that horrible, especially if it's in a child, can also be blocked out by the brain and forgotten.

You are talking about the idea of "repressed memories" which is where the idea for "memory recalled under hypnosis" came from. The idea came from Freud who wrote most of his work high on coc aine.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: Wickedjr89

I guess then my gripe with hypnotism is if it creates harmful memories that never even happened, thus hurting someone when it didn't need to

"hypnosis" is really good for helping people lose weight and stopping people from smoking. there is no evidence whatsoever for it to aid in the recovery of memories. The whole idea was wrong. And yes it has been harmful.

But if I can't trust my own brain then what can I trust?

Its probably a good idea to write things down and take pictures.

Painful memories often stick better in the brain anyway, though I can see how if it's that horrible, especially if it's in a child, can also be blocked out by the brain and forgotten.

You are talking about the idea of "repressed memories" which is where the idea for "memory recalled under hypnosis" came from. The idea came from Freud who wrote most of his work high on coc aine.

If it helps people then i'm all for it, whether I believe in it or not, if it's helping someone then go for it!

I always tried to keep a journal...always failed. I would regret it but it wouldn't matter as all my stuff got destroyed in a house fire a few years ago. It was 3 years ago and i'm ok now (I was in it but got rescued by a neighbor who got a ladder as I was trapped upstairs, had been sleeping during the day and was home alone). Everything, including the journals I tried to write in but always eventually stopped, got destroyed. Maybe I should keep an online private journal, I know those things exist, where you can have a blog but make things private. That's a good idea actually..less likely to be destroyed.

Freud >.< I won't go there, but yeah. I'm not sure how to go about remembering repressed memories but i'd be wary of hypnosis with it potentially creating false memories.

a reply to: Wickedjr89

Freud >.< I won't go there, but yeah. I'm not sure how to go about remembering repressed memories but i'd be wary of hypnosis with it potentially creating false memories.

From what I have been reading lately, there is nothing to support the idea of repressed memories. It goes hand in hand with recovered memories from hypnosis. What happened was that Freud came up with his theory of "repression" and then used hypnosis to "recover" those memories which, of course, supported his coc aine induced ramblings. This thought dominated psychology which spilled over into abduction research. In the world of psychology, there was a dispute about the reality of "repression" and it finally came to a head in the 90s after a trendy rash of court cases that came from recovered repressed memories of childhood sexual abuse that never occurred.

It was finally shown that the whole idea was wrong. Elizabeth Loftus is the leading memory researcher today if you want to look into it more. I dont want to bore the rest of ATS with my own ramblings.

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

Ah. I never could understand how a memory could be repressed but I didn't question it either as I heard it was a real thing since I was a child. Oddly enough...i'm only 26. That makes a lot more sense.

a reply to: Wickedjr89
Here are a couple of links:

Repression

The. Construction of Space Alien Memories

originally posted by: HomeBrew
I've often wondered this of myself with regards to what type of proof would I need to embrace the UFO/Alien phenomena without hesitation.

My standard list, in order of importance:

1. Multiple photos of a UFO taken from different angles with none of the photographers being anonymous.
2. A physical object of some kind (an alien body would be great) directly linked by a chain of evidence to that object.
3. Multiple, independent scientific experts verifying that the object is indeed "alien."
4. People of authority from different backgrounds (President, Pope, UFO experts and skeptics alike) all confirming the results of the scientific experts.
5. The ability for me, myself to actually go and see and possibly touch the item in question.*

* Bonus requirement.

Is that too much to ask? I don't think so. After all, we're talking about proving the reality of aliens here, not your grandma's teapot.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: HomeBrew
I've often wondered this of myself with regards to what type of proof would I need to embrace the UFO/Alien phenomena without hesitation.

My standard list, in order of importance:

1. Multiple photos of a UFO taken from different angles with none of the photographers being anonymous.
2. A physical object of some kind (an alien body would be great) directly linked by a chain of evidence to that object.
3. Multiple, independent scientific experts verifying that the object is indeed "alien."
4. People of authority from different backgrounds (President, Pope, UFO experts and skeptics alike) all confirming the results of the scientific experts.
5. The ability for me, myself to actually go and see and possibly touch the item in question.*

* Bonus requirement.

Is that too much to ask? I don't think so. After all, we're talking about proving the reality of aliens here, not your grandma's teapot.

I think #5 is asking too much...providing tis would create an untenable situation that would result in a great deal of frustration and disappointment for the public.

The rest is a good start...

originally posted by: tanka418
I think #5 is asking too much...providing tis would create an untenable situation that would result in a great deal of frustration and disappointment for the public.

Oh, I don't care about the public. Just me. Except for stuff that is obviously toxic or dangerous, or just too remote, I imagine myself being able to physically touch most things in the world. Shroud of Turin? Sure, if I was a Carbon-14 expert of some kind. Pope's chalice? Sure, if I worked at the Vatican. Moon rocks? Become a lunar scientist. Abraham Lincoln's skull? Okay, that might be difficult -- but not impossible!

They do a good job in Mecca with the Black Stone (الحجر الأسود‎). Maybe something like that.

originally posted by: Blue Shift
Oh, I don't care about the public. Just me.

Ya know that just about says it all, and it speaks volumes...

They do a good job in Mecca with the Black Stone (الحجر الأسود‎). Maybe something like that.

Yeah they sure did a good job there...most never get to touch the stone, most never get to even "see" the stone...though they are told that Allah will be satisfied if they simply walk around an "look" in the right direction...how does that "fit" into your selfish ideals?


Ya know...I though you were "right-on" until you responded as you did...

a reply to: Blue Shift

They do a good job in Mecca with the Black Stone (الحجر الأسود‎). Maybe something like that.

Like the Pope coming into town this week? The city is going to be on a virtual lockdown so I get to stay home on Friday.

originally posted by: tanka418
Ya know...I though you were "right-on" until you responded as you did...

Oh, my gosh! I disappointed somebody overly-sensitive on the Internet! I'm sure this has never never happened before ever.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: tanka418
Ya know...I though you were "right-on" until you responded as you did...

Oh, my gosh! I disappointed somebody overly-sensitive on the Internet! I'm sure this has never never happened before ever.

No...more than likely far more jaded than you will ever achieve...but.

IF you had ever paid attention to one of the most common reasons (according to believers) that ET doesn't pay Earth a civilized visit...you know the old hate, war, uncivilized behavior, fighting...did I mention WAR?

YOUR ATTITUDE IS AT THE ROOT!!! The lack of caring for others is sociopathic and is the cause for much of the woe and social sickness on this wee world of yours. Not until such attitudes and behaviors are gone will Earth be ready for the interstellar community. In short; you are holding your fellowman back!