Why racism is an issue in the 21st century. The answer just might shock you.

For those that actually want to discuss the topic:



The origins of gun control, and marriage licenses.

Born out of the democrats racism.

a reply to: neo96

I've read through this entire thread and still fail to see what your exact point is. The Democrats have a bad historical record when it comes to race. I agree. It's much more complicated than that, and I see others tried to explain that, but that seems to have been dismissed.

So what is your point? Are you trying to say that since they have a bad record in the past that it equates to Democrats being racists today?

If so, I disagree.

Racism is an individual "thing". People are racists, not entire political parties, unless that is part of how the party is structured.

a reply to: introvert

My point have been proven for 7 pages now.

The LEFT/Democrats just don't want to own up to their racist history.

a reply to: neo96

Get back to me when you want to talk about the racist history of the Democratic party instead of just deflecting it.

Why are you afraid to discuss the topic you yourself put out there?

You aren't just talking about the past are you? :-)

Black lives matter

Too in your face? Too accusatory? Racist?

Why?

When someone says America has a racist past - how does that then become an entire thread dedicated into attacking Democrats?

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

When someone says America has a racist past - how does that translate into an entire thread dedicated into attacking Democrats?

I will say it one more time.

The people who constant says America has a racist past IGNORE their own.

The Democrats.

The 'hero' of civil 'rights'.

Johnson

www.msnbc.com...

a reply to: neo96

The people who constant says America has a racist past IGNORE their own.

The Democrats.

So now we're getting somewhere

Why do you take that personally?

:-)

America does have a racist past

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: introvert

My point have been proven for 7 pages now.

The LEFT/Democrats just don't want to own up to their racist history.

I'm not a Democrat, but I am a Leftist and I admit to this. But as I said earlier, it's more complicated than how you are presenting it. You're not taking in to account the Dixiecrats/Democrats are now Republicans issue. The parties are not as they once were.

Are you trying to make some sort of correlation with the history of the party and the Democrats of today?

Also, there is plenty of evidence to support the claim that Republicans, or some of them, are racists today. Would you be willing to admit that, as I admitted the racism of the past?

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: introvert

My point have been proven for 7 pages now.

The LEFT/Democrats just don't want to own up to their racist history.

I'm not a Democrat, but I am a Leftist and I admit to this. But as I said earlier, it's more complicated than how you are presenting it. You're not taking in to account the Dixiecrats/Democrats are now Republicans issue. The parties are not as they once were.

Are you trying to make some sort of correlation with the history of the party and the Democrats of today?

Also, there is plenty of evidence to support the claim that Republicans, or some of them, are racists today. Would you be willing to admit that, as I admitted the racism of the past?

Ok, here's my opinion. I'm sure some will just call it dumb or "the mind of a 20-something know-it-all" or "college student idealism" but... Here is how I see the two parties of this illustrious country of ours:

Both parties are run by people from the 60s hippie generation.

The Democrats:

Cons: Supposedly for the environment and science yet much of the science and technology which could alleviate environmental problems is either unknown or rejected by them as "too visionary, too dangerous, etc' ignoring the actual research which says otherwise. Things such as orbital solar arrays to replace coal and nuclear power plants have been possible since the 1980s yet they have never entered into the environmental debate.

Al Gore and other ex-hippies probably never even heard of the concept. So while they claim to support education and technology, it has its limits and if something does not fit in the "good tech" box or the "bad tech" box they don't know what to do with it. They also have done little or nothing to reduce college tuition (but to be fair neither have the Republicans). Democrats also seem to have this kinda fakeness, idk what else to call it but it's like the "#FirstWorldProblems" hashtag. (look it up if you don't know what I mean).

They will say they are all for helping starving children in Africa or Southeast Asia but at the same time they couldn't care less for the poverty stricken in our country. The majority wouldn't be caught dead spending much of their time helping to feed homeless families or volunteering for an organization that champions what they supposedly stand for. It's like "I voted for XYZ therefore I did my job". No you didn't. You cast a vote. The government can't do everything!

As for those minorities whose rights they championed, often their support is superficial. They often would move away from them when they moved into their neighborhood and schools. Hypocritical.

Also, most of the Democrats "grassroots" tactics haven't moved on since the 1960s either. Even protests are often co-opted by baby boomers trying to relive their youth and bringing their old '60s protest songs which they swear are better than anything OT3P, Muse, RATM or Dream Theater have written. I like Joan Baez, Marvin Gaye and the Beatles as much as anyone but come on! And no, I can't stand Bob Dylan's voice. To me I can't understand why anyone would listen to it other than the things he was saying. Anyway enough of the negative.


Pros:

Support taking care of the planet, as a rule tends to support the equal treatment of minorities of all types, supports a living wage, supports education and science (mostly). Generally the more centrist party. Willing to compromise but its willingness to compromise is perhaps a weakness more than a strength, at least viewed from the other side. Progressive socially. Less "Us vs Them" among the majority of centrist Democrats compared to their centrist Republican counterparts.


The Republicans

Cons:

Supposedly the "conservative party" but they have very little to do with traditional conservatism. They are activists.A word they detest because it reminds them of their former '60s hippie days which for some reason or other they decided to rebel against once they got a little money in their bank account from their middle management job in the suburban office parks.

Instead the Republican party is more of a reactionary party which uses wedge social issues often centered around a very narrow minded view of Christianity. Other faiths need not apply. The lack of faith need not apply. Minority? Lip service at best. Real conservatives wouldn't care who someone slept with or create fake "War on…(insert whatever core constituency or belief)" propaganda. Hate science when it disagrees with your politics? Call "those people" names "Ivory Tower Intellectuals", "the educated elite", and so on. Hate the separation of church and state? Declare a "War on Christmas". Hate that minorities make an issue out of not being treated by the majority? Blame them by calling yourself the victim while denouncing them for "playing the victim card".

Projection, Deflection, better to be feared than loved. Call your opponent "irrelevant". Machiavellian.

It's no secret that people my age have been fleeing the Republican party as their attitudes towards many issues which resonate with millennials are diametrically opposed to social progress. No dissent allowed, no compromise. No future. My own parents left the party when it became full of ditto heads, anti-intellectualism, and even though they are devout Christians, the Republican party becoming an extension of the church was too much for them. As they'd say Mark 12:17: "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."

They also don't like the "God of the Gaps" philosophy many in the party expose. My dad is a Christian but he's also an engineer. Maybe when the Republicans stop the coded language against minorities and LGBT people they might start to win over younger centrists conservatives but you know, a good idea if they don't want to do that would be to just call themselves "The Grey Party" as it is becoming a far more appropriate description. The members seem to be involved in more extremist movements than the Democrats. I don't see Democrats burning up clinics, running in and gunning down people in the name of race or religion, forming militias etc. It the most you get out of them is a scary drum circle and bad protest songs.

Pros:

Support pro-growth economics (mostly, though this too has changed to more support for the big business contributors), support for the sanctity of life (though it often doesn't seem to matter once that life is born or if it was put on death row

So my parents myself consider ourselves independents. I became an eligible voter 2 years ago when I turned 18 and in the years since them I've voted for Republicans, I've voted for Democrats, I've voted for a Libertarian and a Socialist. I love my city and state where that is possible for an independent.

So yeah..

Both parties need to be replaced with ones which resonate with people like me. Hopefully more than just two would fill their shoes as well. 'Cause there is nothing like filling out a ballot with only two bad choices and having to write "Micky Mouse" or "The Little Mermaid" in the "Other" space..

Basically I don't vote for parties. Nor do most of my friends. We vote based on a candidate's platform and stance on issues we care about or whose platform resonates with us.

a reply to: JadeStar



There's an old saying --

"Maybe we should let the teenagers and twenty-something's step up and solve all the world's problems while they are young, and still know everything."

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: JadeStar



There's an old saying --

"Maybe we should let the teenagers and twenty-something's step up and solve all the world's problems while they are young, and still know everything."

Or maybe we should just let the "adults" run everything, they seem to be doing a fine job with the planet WE have to live on.

I hope to turn 100 in 2095.

Think about that for a moment. We've got to spend more time on this rock than the people who would throw that saying around.

a reply to: JadeStar

We've got to spend more time on this rock than the people who would throw that saying around.

Then maybe you should step up and do it. Run for office. Make your case, seriously, I encourage you to do so, but

as smart as you are, the ageist - ageism - is not very becoming.

Look above at what you said. So, since you are younger, the planet *somehow* belongs more to you than it does me.

Anyway, it is in need of repairs, so have a go! I wish you my best.

a reply to: masqua

Sure and the Egyptians were never racist....

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: JadeStar

We've got to spend more time on this rock than the people who would throw that saying around.

Then maybe you should step up and do it. Run for office. Make your case, seriously, I encourage you to do so, but

as smart as you are, the ageist - ageism - is not very becoming.

Look above at what you said. So, since you are younger, the planet *somehow* belongs more to you than it does me.

It's not ageist to say that we have to live with problems your generation (and those prior) created when our views are summarily discounted as that "old saying" did.

That old saying was *not* seriously suggesting we "step up" it was saying we were "know it alls". Ironic humor.

Again, the common ATS tactic of deflecting ageism, racism or whatever back to the person who was the target of it and who called it out in the first place.....

a reply to: neo96

it's still an issue because it's been an issue for centuries , its institutionalised the world over

the fact that the US government were exposed when they funded the illegal contra wars during the regan era and flooded america and primarily the western sea board with crack coc aine and sold it into black communities then tied together with the private prison system we have a link which shows the US government are still racist to the core.

originally posted by: neo96

The point was a slave owner started the democratic party.

So what?? The world has changed, party values have changed. Im pretty damn far from being a democrat by the way. But Jefferson was an amazing man. In todays world he would be a Libertarian 1000%, does that mean Libertarians believe in slavery??

Political parties were highly discouraged by all the founders, but of course they eventually took shape.

Him owning slaves does not make him a bad person. Morality is almost always judged relatively, and for the time, it was 100% a social norm. You have to understand the time, place and context of everything.

There are people working in slavery right now in Southeast Asia for fishing companies who basically take their papers and force them to work for years before finally allowing them to leave. Those guys would probably jump at the opportunity to be a slave for a generous humane slaveholder.

For those who scoff at such a notion, you need to realize that many AMERICANS today live in de-facto slavery to certain systems. Less than 100years ago in fact, tens of thousands live in financial slavery to the mining companies, in very similar arrangements to slavery, where they lived on-site and were paid less than it cost to live, so ultimately constantly lived in debt which was physically enforced by hired 'muscle' to stop people from leaving until they had paid back what they owed the company. Are you aware these same type of arrangements currently exist in China, with company-owned dormitories where people live and rack up debt until they are basically a ward of the company and relying on the company to feed and clothe them ???

Slavery was immoral as an institution, but as ever, each slaveholder was different, and many people who today live in poverty would in fact have better lives as slaves of a decent man. I don't think most people today think too deep about it, but it wasn't as if slaves worked for free and then went to their home and had to pay rent, buy food, maintain a car, pay off student loans, bills, etc. Again, I'm not arguing that slavery was right, every human being deserves the right to deterine their own destiny and take on their own debts; but it's a common myth that slaveholders regularly beat their slaves to death, or cut their feet off etc.

Slaves were INVESTMENTS, and important domestic/agricultural workers, much the same as horses. Have you ever owned a horse??? They are expensive to keep healthy and fit. No reasonably intelligent person pays a lot of money for something only to render it incapable of doing the job it was bought for.


Just trying to render some perspective here.

I read all these pages and to me, it seems as if racism wasn't really the issue that was being discussed. I see more of a D vs R topic here. We all know that racism is present in both parties.

As a minority in the USA, I've seen racism all my life, even today. I've heard of people talking about types of racism. To me, I've never seen it that way. A racist act is a racist act. There is no difference between someone calling me a derogatory "name" and a different person making a racist joke. They are both acts of racism.

Instead of discussing who racks up more points, we should be discussing about ways to stop the racism in politics.

originally posted by: soulpowertothendegree
a reply to: masqua

Sure and the Egyptians were never racist....

I'm sure they weren't. However, they did lots of fighting other tribes and city states, but I doubt they thought that i.e. Asians or Central Africans were lesser breeds of human beings.

After all... Antony and Cleopatra had no problems getting along.

Neo and his ultra conservative buddies are the posters that consistently make me /facepalm

Delete this post I don't care but seriously if you guys believe even half of what you espouse than I truly am at a loss.

I mean the ultra lefties say some pretty goofy crap too but the right wingers are just beyond words for me.