Defeat The Right In Three Minutes

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: burdman30ott6

You've just proven my point - the right wants to ignore the plight of the people who can't find a job that pays a living wage...

Why can't they with all the jobs the left claims to have created?

Hell....why can't they create their own? My wife and I created our own....it isn't that hard.

Ridiculous really....people expect to be handed something and have their hand held to make it work. When is personal responsibility going to become reality for them? Never.

Do you own the roads you travel on daily? Do you have your own police force at the ready? If not, why haven't you taken personal responsibility to do so? Why take a handout from the rest of us?

The point is that your way of thinking is too simplistic in that in only works that way in a wild west society.

We are evolving and that evolution includes collective responsibility as well as personal responsibility.

a reply to: kaylaluv

I believe there are genuine people that need help, certain individuals with severe mental or psychical disease, older folks, I also believe there is abuse of the system wellfare thieves, then people want to keep their taxes low and everyone has a right to feel that way.My point is the balancing of the groups rights vs the individuals is always debated we have the most effeciant system we can(currently)however it can get better.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Not everyone has your intelligence, drive and energy, apparently.

Maybe you could offer some free workshops to the poor, showing them how you did it. Oh wait, that would be a leftist thing to do...

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Vasa Croe

It is opinion, but that does not mean there is not content in that piece that is worth considering and debating. I happen to think there are many points listed that show the hypocrisy.

Also talks about the language and propaganda. But we're not willing to look at any of it because of what you just posted?

I will look at all of it as I have. The problem is when a debate is not based in facts it can be skewed in whatever manner each side wants. There is room for interpretation. It is the writer's opinion and bias that is more in question than the article itself. If there is a bias then there is an agenda. With an agenda comes a skew and so on and so forth.

If we base our arguments on supposition and rhetoric then nobody will ever win....it is an endless cycle of the same from both sides.

a reply to: xuenchen

Let's see. Which side of the political spectrum implements policies that increase the wealth gap and decrease employee benefits and which side implements policies that promote them? Clearly, the right having unrestricted access to the government would just result in slavery again.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Actually, no. Those "free" workshops aren't and the people who run them get paid quite well.

If he were to run some himself, he would have to fundraise to get people to willingly donate to help him and donate his own time and effort. Odds are that he would not be making any salary at it.

He would be doing what people call "charity."

a reply to: TechniXcality

Some people are not physically or mentally deficient, or too old - sometimes you just have a rough period where the jobs just aren't there, at least not the ones that will allow you to pay rent, eat food, pay for transportation, medical, etc. What's wrong with a little temporary help for those people?

a reply to: burdman30ott6

That's the problem. Those bloodsucking welfare collecting bastards ARE working! Some even work more than one job and still have to get help to pay bills.

WSJ

You say it's a minor percentage of people trying to do their best, but the numbers show otherwise.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Vasa Croe

That's because there will NEVER be a perfect thriving economy where everyone will get the perfect job making the perfect salary. There will always be a percentage of the population that will be unable to earn a living wage. What to do with those poor unfortunate souls? The right wants to ignore them. The left wants to share the wealth and help them, still encouraging them to get on their feet with free education, job training, etc.

The difference here is the "right" isn't trying to force the other side to do anything with their money whatsoever.

Are you auditioning for comedy?

Maybe explain the bank bailouts to me? Where the money came from and where it went? Or how about the invasion of Iraq? Was that free? If not who paid for it? Who pays for tax breaks and subsidies to corporations?
This is going to be a long list...are you sure you meant to say that?

The invasion of Iraq cost $2 Trillion over 10+ years... that's roughly what the USA spends in social programs in a year. You don't want to go there, friend.

Ideally, tax breaks and corporate subsidies would pay for themselves through better paying jobs and growth investment. I've posted many times that that portion of America is broken right alongside the income tax portion, however. I'm a strong advocate of national protectionist policies, including tearing up every global free trade agreement the country has stupidly signed, instituting significant import tariffs for foreign made goods, instituting massive taxes and penalties for off shoring, and TARP was a complete and utter disaster which never should have been considered. I'm an equal opportunity asshole, friend... I believe failure is a natural process mostly controlled by the individual, be that an individual person or an individual corporation, and that failure should be allowed to occur naturally. "To big to fail" isn't American in any way.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Not everyone has your intelligence, drive and energy, apparently.

Maybe you could offer some free workshops to the poor, showing them how you did it. Oh wait, that would be a leftist thing to do...

I have volunteered for many things including homeless, battered women's shelters (with children), habitat for humanity, and donated to causes I feel are worthy and have a long history of helping people such as Make a Wish.

Maybe those that want could do some of the same...

Intelligence, drive and energy? I don't care what they have....if you want to live you do what it takes....not that hard to do. If you want to live better than how you currently do you do more and try harder.

Nice way to avoid my question though....so why aren't they all working with all the jobs the left claims to have created?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: xuenchen

Let's see. Which side of the political spectrum implements policies that increase the wealth gap and decrease employee benefits and which side implements policies that promote them? Clearly, the right having unrestricted access to the government would just result in slavery again.

China has been increasing the wealth gap and decreasing employee benefits for quite some time now.

a reply to: introvert

Note how they have twisted that stat by including the Earned Income Tax credit. EIC was never intended to be considered welfare... hell, the cutoff point for it is well into the 2nd highest quintile of tax payers. If, however, that is removed from this equation, the following paints a less rosy picture than you're trying to portray:

Of those receiving that tax credit, 74% were part of a working family, according the study. Meanwhile, 61% of Medicaid and other health-care programs for the poor went to working families. Just 36% of food stamps and 32% of Temporary Assistance to Needy Families, or TANF, went to households led by workers.

And this doesn't even scratch the surface of crap like the ACA, housing, utility, and miscellaneous subsidies, or Obama's Making Work Pay rebate which absolutely IS a form of welfare which requires only that a tax return be submitted, even if zero tax liability exists, for those people to receive their dowries.

Defeat the left in three seconds:

Detroit
Buffalo
Cincinnati
Cleveland
St. Louis
Milwaukee
Philadelphia
Memphis
Chicago
New Orleans
Newark
Miami

Run by democrats...run into the ground...

a reply to: xuenchen

You are both correct and wrong at the same time.

China’s minimum wage rising as rich-poor gap widens

China isn't what I'd call an example of a pure left country anyways.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: burdman30ott6

You've just proven my point - the right wants to ignore the plight of the people who can't find a job that pays a living wage...

Why can't they with all the jobs the left claims to have created?

Hell....why can't they create their own? My wife and I created our own....it isn't that hard.

Ridiculous really....people expect to be handed something and have their hand held to make it work. When is personal responsibility going to become reality for them? Never.

Do you own the roads you travel on daily? Do you have your own police force at the ready? If not, why haven't you taken personal responsibility to do so? Why take a handout from the rest of us?

The point is that your way of thinking is too simplistic in that in only works that way in a wild west society.

We are evolving and that evolution includes collective responsibility as well as personal responsibility.

You're bringing up things that have nothing to do with social programs. I have no issue contributing to bettering where I live, and the roads I travel. But I can guarantee that if those things ever break down and fail, I will find a way to survive.

The problem is that many don't give a crap and won't find a way...they want someone else to do it for them.

I have 3 kids that I have to teach responsibility to every single day. I don't need to teach adults....

a reply to: kaylaluv

Ok this is hard for me, because it really goes into the personal reasons someone ends up down on their luck. I've been down on my luck hard, after my wife and i split up, worked a job while homeless still paying for a house, and child support, and hotels every other night for myself.

I got out of it not entirely on my own,my family helped and I ended up taking some of my company's clientele and started my own LLC, things are much better now. Listen, in a civil society people cannot be starving or freezing to death in the street as par the course it just can't be the case, but also people can't use welfare money when they are able bodied and sit on it and use drugs, have unreported income, never achieve a real job.

Listen kaylaluv there were times I didn't eat for two to three days I looked at it as fasting and tried to be positive I choose showers and hotels over food because I had to be presentable in my line of work.

I don't wish that on anyone, but I also had the determination to say # this, and make it happen. My company's clients loved me, and a few of them offered me to service them networking/fire alarm, access control. So I ran with it

having said all that, I didn't go get wellfare, I never begged, I always showered and was clean dressed and presentable, I never gave up. I almost did but I kept one foot infront of the other. So yes certain situations even able bodied young people should at least be able to receive, however it should be temporary and hinge on job searching unless otherwise unable.

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: kaylaluv

Ok this is hard for me, because it really goes into the personal reasons someone ends up down on their luck. I've been down on my luck hard, after my wife and i split up, worked a job while homeless still paying for a house, and child support, and hotels every other night for myself.

I got out of it not entirely on my own,my family helped and I ended up taking some of my company's clientele and started my own LLC, things are much better now. Listen, in a civil society people cannot be starving or freezing to death in the street as par the course it just can't be the case, but also people can't use welfare money when they are able bodied and sit on it and use drugs, have unreported income, never achieve a real job.

Listen kaylaluv there were times I didn't eat for two to three days I looked at it as fasting and tried to be positive I choose showers and hotels over food because I had to be presentable in my line of work.

I don't wish that on anyone, but I also had the determination to say # this, and make it happen. My company's clients loved me, and a few of them offered me to service them networking/fire alarm, access control. So I ran with it

having said all that, I didn't go get wellfare, I never begged, I always showered and was clean dressed and presentable, I never gave up. I almost did but I kept one foot infront of the other. So yes certain situations even able bodied young people should at least be able to receive, however it should be temporary and hinge on job searching unless otherwise unable.

Been in a similar situation myself....very similar. It is hard but you figure it out. Sure there are plenty of things I want and can't have. I help support a family of 5.....not easy....but I love every minute of it.

I am happy to help those that CAN'T do it, but those that just WON'T do it are not my problem. I help out with my 99 year old grandmother on a weekly basis. My parents are getting to the point they will need help in the next 5 or so years and I will do that as well. I have helped my brother out as well.

My wife works 60 hour work weeks and I do close to the same, all from home and a bit from my office....work hard and success happens. People have to be willing to fail to succeed.

I have lived in a car and eaten Ramen noodles for 6 months. I have lived with my parents for a year. I have worked through it all....and I am stronger for it.

I think the lesson to be taken is that the more you work at it and the harder it is, the more you want to keep what you have worked for. It empowers you to do more. I have found it has made me MORE empathetic with those that have less, but at the same time I am not willing to give them something....more willing to teach them something.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

I don't believe the left has ever claimed to have created a job for every single person.

Tell your words of wisdom to someone stuck in the hood, who is working at McDonalds or Walmart (or maybe both), but can't afford to feed their kids. That person may not have any clue as to what else they can do, they are stuck in their despair. The question is, what do we do with those people as a country? Do we ignore them and hope there is enough charity to help them or wait for them to "do more and try harder"? What if, in their minds, they have tried as hard as they can? Now what do we do with them?

a reply to: kaylaluv

Research, take opportunitys even if they seem bunk, always approach life with your head up, don't let the person that you were dictate the person your going to become. If someone asks you to do something, say yes and do it happily. Learn all you can, and surround yourself with successful people, or successful idols. Read, read , read ,make choices that are sacraficial towards self and benifitial towards others and your end goals. Don't box your self in, and never give up!

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Vasa Croe

I don't believe the left has ever claimed to have created a job for every single person.

Tell your words of wisdom to someone stuck in the hood, who is working at McDonalds or Walmart (or maybe both), but can't afford to feed their kids. That person may not have any clue as to what else they can do, they are stuck in their despair. The question is, what do we do with those people as a country? Do we ignore them and hope there is enough charity to help them or wait for them to "do more and try harder"? What if, in their minds, they have tried as hard as they can? Now what do we do with them?

LOL...sorry, but someone stuck in the hood is a poor excuse. Why are they stuck in the hood? And if they already couldn't afford to live themselves then why are they having kids? Why not expect them to do more and try harder? I was responsible and waited until I could afford to have a kid and educate them....is that hard to understand for people? Should I feel bad because they can't understand that if they can't afford to live themselves then maybe they should wait to have kids?

Do more and try harder? No....by all means lets let them expect to do the same and not try any harder and we will support them and their decisions because those decisions have gotten them so far in life already. By all means, lets all support them throughout their lives until they die....no burden at all right?

And I am guessing these same people will be teaching their kids that they can't afford to do more and try harder while they are wallowing in their misery they have created in order for them to have a better life right? Or is it a wheel that just spins and spins and their kids do the same?