Erasing Memory: Did you flashy thing me? Don't ever flashy thing me!

medicalxpress.com...

Scientists have made a neuralizer. Like the handheld device in MIB it erases memories but can also make memories. it could be used beneficially to fix traumatic memories or get rid of bad habits or do something bad and erase memories for some clandestine purpose. Or it could be used to give you the training of a 40 year master of martial arts or piano playing or stuff like that. well i'm sure there is a way to go yet but this is now possible.

a reply to: stormbringer1701

I read the article that you linked to and then played the video at the end.

What were we talking about?

a reply to: chr0naut

They've been able to send a beam of light into the spine of mice and cause them to forget learned memories.

It's still being tested and the tech isn't fully there but they've basically proved the concept, which really scares the bejeebus outta me.

the team had to first design and build a device that allowed for such manipulation—they call it AS-PaRac—it is an optoprobe that is capable of causing changes to spines that grow on the edges of dentrites, the listening or input part used by neurons to communicate with one another. Prior work has suggested that their tips grow bigger as part of storing a new memory.

Dendritic spines are the major loci of synaptic plasticity and are considered as possible structural correlates of memory. Nonetheless, systematic manipulation of specific subsets of spines in the cortex has been unattainable, and thus, the link between spines and memory has been correlational. We developed a novel synaptic optoprobe, AS-PaRac1 (activated synapse targeting photoactivatable Rac1), that can label recently potentiated spines specifically, and induce the selective shrinkage of AS-PaRac1-containing spines. In vivo imaging of AS-PaRac1 revealed that a motor learning task induced substantial synaptic remodelling in a small subset of neurons. The acquired motor learning was disrupted by the optical shrinkage of the potentiated spines, whereas it was not affected by the identical manipulation of spines evoked by a distinct motor task in the same cortical region. Taken together, our results demonstrate that a newly acquired motor skill depends on the formation of a task-specific dense synaptic ensemble.

Now we have real reasons to wear tinfoil hats!

a reply to: stormbringer1701

A memory can be removed by a trained hypnotherapist, but that is at the request of the patient and a very skilled therapist. This sounds as though, once it is a viable tool, it could be used even without the agreement of the patient.

The possibilities of this are horrendous - ultimately you could get anyone to believe anything e.g. they had committed murder by creating a false memory.

On the other side of the coin though, what a super way to learn a language, skill etc. What a boom for employment, not need for long and expensive apprenticeships you choose your work and its required skills are input via the "Flashy thingy". Hells bells you could even get rid of school - Wow.

Sounds interesting, be like Total recall, planting false memories, I think there would be a big market for that, imagine living out all your fantasies? i'd sign up for that! or deleting bad memories, giving you skills, the possibilities.

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: stormbringer1701

I read the article that you linked to and then played the video at the end.

What were we talking about?

I forget...

a reply to: Tranceopticalinclined

I would just like to forget the pain in my spine.

a reply to: stormbringer1701

LMAO at the thread title!

originally posted by: Tranceopticalinclined
a reply to: chr0naut

They've been able to send a beam of light into the spine of mice and cause them to forget learned memories.

Well, not really.

This has been threaded to death a few times already. What is going on is that they have to virally modify the neurons to react to the light. Then they insert a fiber optic probe into the mice's hippocampal area, and use a laser to modify the individual neurons in the hippocampus.

The happy mice you see in the article's picture are not what you see in the lab. THOSE mice have ports in their skulls with fiber connections permanently inserted.

And the spines they're talking about aren't down the back of the mice, it's a microscopic structure on the neuronal dendrites in the hippocampus.

So it has light involved, but it's not like it's a flashy thing, it's a pile of lab equipment used on a critter that's been genetically modified and has a fiber optic tap on its head.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: Tranceopticalinclined
a reply to: chr0naut

They've been able to send a beam of light into the spine of mice and cause them to forget learned memories.

Well, not really.

This has been threaded to death a few times already. What is going on is that they have to virally modify the neurons to react to the light. Then they insert a fiber optic probe into the mice's hippocampal area, and use a laser to modify the individual neurons in the hippocampus.

The happy mice you see in the article's picture are not what you see in the lab. THOSE mice have ports in their skulls with fiber connections permanently inserted.

And the spines they're talking about aren't down the back of the mice, it's a microscopic structure on the neuronal dendrites in the hippocampus.

So it has light involved, but it's not like it's a flashy thing, it's a pile of lab equipment used on a critter that's been genetically modified and has a fiber optic tap on its head.

Apparently atomic bombs can erase memories with a flash too!

A few bottles cheap red wine do the same to me.

I've lost count waking up with a hangover, no pants and shoes, no recollection what so ever. Memory gone, wiped.

originally posted by: ProleUK
A few bottles cheap red wine do the same to me.

I've lost count waking up with a hangover, no pants and shoes, no recollection what so ever. Memory gone, wiped.

Perhaps you are just a clone with implanted memories and the real 'you' died from alcohol poisoning or a stupid accident, ruining 'their' experiment. So they substituted one of their back-up clones.

You should check your body for absence of scars, differences in freckles and moles and such. Then you could be sure.

(kidding)

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: ProleUK
A few bottles cheap red wine do the same to me.

I've lost count waking up with a hangover, no pants and shoes, no recollection what so ever. Memory gone, wiped.

Perhaps you are just a clone with implanted memories and the real 'you' died from alcohol poisoning or a stupid accident, ruining 'their' experiment. So they substituted one of their back-up clones.

You should check your body for absence of scars, differences in freckles and moles and such. Then you could be sure.

(kidding)

Hmm I think you are on to something. Though I think they've messed up with a few things in the cloning process.
Im sure I had a few more inches and Im sure I used to be a genius. It's all becoming clear.

a reply to: Bedlam

ewww, imagine if that was how the one in MIB worked.

Thanks for the elaboration, they can do it but more or less, it's involved...

The EU secret services can easily erase your short term, recently acquired memory.
In particular the EU uses this techniques to prevent citizens from learning a foreign language, as newly learned terminology, vocabulary and grammar rules can be erased from your brain. Long term memory instead is more difficult, that's why the EU always tries to prevent people from learning new languages, rather than trying to remove a consolidated language from you brain.

This should not be only considered as a negative technology, because opposite techniques using the same technology can produce an enhanced learning speed for a new language or new concepts in other knowledge fields (maths, physics, etc..). In some cases there are examples of people who using these techniques have been able to learn a quite complicated language in an impressively short time, up to an impressively high level.

1 year, to reach a C1 level is possible with these technology!

oops, duplicated post!

originally posted by: Flanker86
In particular the EU uses this techniques to prevent citizens from learning a foreign language, as newly learned terminology, vocabulary and grammar rules can be erased from your brain.

Or, you're just not good at learning languages, or your memory sucks.

1 year, to reach a C1 level is possible with these technology!

Citation needed.

originally posted by: Flanker86In particular the EU uses this techniques to prevent citizens from learning a foreign language

Most Europeans are multilingual.

originally posted by: GetHyped

originally posted by: Flanker86In particular the EU uses this techniques to prevent citizens from learning a foreign language

Most Europeans are multilingual.

Not to mention, there's hardly enough intelligence service personnel to run around with lists of whoever's just bought a language course (what about all the secondary school and uni students?) using some oddball bit of tech to erase their memories. Wouldn't they all just fail? Wouldn't that be obvious? Wouldn't it take millions of agents, and hundreds of thousands of gadgets?

Something like 95% of the classified budget of the EU is for secret services!
Classified budget, is not counted for the EU economic stability, and goes behind and beyond the EU financial stability mechanisms. (i.e. NO LIMITS for the secret service, more or less)
It's true that human operators cannot really run their tricks on everyone at the same time, but they just need to develop a software, with certain specifics, to get a computer to run their "manipulations" on anyone they want at the same time. All the operator needs to do, is to define the target and start/stop/switch the program.

By program I mean, a set of routines that produce instructions for the physical infrastructure, that finally triggers neurosynaptic signals.

Which leaves one last question to answer. Do EU secret services have supercomputers in underground bunkers or they maybe don't know how to dig?