I don't think Americans really want "equality."

I mean - it's really obvious isn't it, or is it just me?

We have talks of spending half a trillion to round up, and deport 11 million people. Most don't care, but the army is typically called in for this.

We have talks of raising our minimum wage - that is being shot down left, right, center, above, and below. Yet the corporate socialism and giant tax breaks are good for the American people and the economy, even after Alan Greenspan said himself his ideology was flawed.

We have talks of nationwide healthcare, for everyone - and again, it is being shot down. You want healthcare? Pull yourself up from your bootstraps, you filthy bum.

We have a new term many Americans have never heard before, "Democratic Socialism," and for some those words clearly spell out "Full-fledged government tyranny and totalitarian regime state," which is simply absurd. People are talking about Pol Pot, and Mao Zedong, and comparing them to Bernie Sanders?

We have talks of free tuition for public universities - again, this is being criticized. We are not customers, as much as some of you would like us to be. EDUCATION - what's that again? Where certain privileged individuals are allowed to go depending if they can afford it? Go Education!

We have talks of abolishing private prisons, and people again are loosing their minds, because "these non-violent drug offenders serving more time than child molesters, murderers, and racists deserve to rot," No jail time for killing four people while driving drunk because of affluenza? Yeah you're good bro lol gg see you later homie.

We have talks of reforming drug laws, and again - people lose their minds! "They're gonna make POT legal?! POT?!! What about the children? I need a DRINK now, maybe a SMOKE too!" Because certain peoples freedoms and preferred choices are more important than others, all the while ignoring the crisis of alcohol-pharmaceutical abuse.

I could continue to go on and on, but I digress.

I just don't understand people.

You know, before you're man or woman, black, white, brown, Christain, Agnostic, before you're a teacher, a son, a daughter, a parent, a grand-parent, before you're a taxi driver, a grocery store cashier, or the CTO of your company - you were, and hopefully still are a human being.

Why are so many Americans against helping out, assisting, working together with, creating bonds with, strengthening multi-cultural ties, building a more resilient, strong, and luxurious community, full of acceptance, love, compassion, with a desire to do more for what's outside of your own world than what exists within your own, private world.

Why?

I'll tell you why.

Racism, classism, bigotry, hatred, envy, jealousy, pride, and above all - our overwhelming desire for our one, true love in the Capialistic nature of American politics:

Greed.

EDIT: and also, don't you love those who slam the "welfare leeches," but don't want them to have a higher paying job, or have free tuition to be able to afford to go to school, in order to attain a higher paying job? Which one do you want, man?!

I swear it's Nazi-esque. People broad-stroke TENS of millions of people with their smug, elitist attitude of "The mans got me down! The mans got me down!," claiming that's the cause for poverty - their life actions and personal choices.

How much easier life becomes when you see what you want to see, and don't bother examining other angles, opinions, cultures, people, and often time facts.

RIGHT ON! AND IT STARTS LOCALLY! Produce food locally and act cooperatively.

originally posted by: HUMBLEONE
RIGHT ON! AND IT STARTS LOCALLY! Produce food locally and act cooperatively.

Man, I wish. If I started praising some of the things I've posted here out on the streets, I'd probably have the cops called on me.

Locally, my community consists of 95% wealthy, and older white folks. During my high school years, two different black girls dropped out within the first semester due to the overwhelming racism that was played against her and her family for being "poor" and because what she looked like.

I was even raised to be a racist, thank the Lord I unlearned that backwards ass of a mess before really aging. My family is incredibly racist, it's sickening, and it reverberates throughout the American society.

I'm considered the "black sheep" because I would rather have the approach of understanding and consideration before prejudice and discrimination.

Makes me wonder how exactly people came to be so divided, on everything.

a reply to: RomeByFire

The only thing I can say is that .....I don't even know where to begin...

You're coming from an entitlement attitude that is just wrong. You are not entitled to ANYTHING... They are not entitled to ANYTHING...

Sure, I want them to have a higher paying job. I want them to be able to take care of their health... I want them to be able to buy a new car, and have a cell phone...

The question isn't whether 'I' want them to have those things, or whether YOU want them to have those things....

The question is whether THEY want them to have those things.

If THEY want to have those things, then THEY need to do the things that will give them the ability to GET those things.

So the question isn't whether we want equality or not, because WE DO... We want equality of opportunity and it's there.

Maybe not 100%, but it's there....

Do you know how we KNOW that it's there?

Because every day, those that truly WANT to EARN those things get up and do the things necessary to GET those things.

To have NONE of the skills that can get you those things and to expect them to be handed to you because you are here and exist is one of, if not THE, most ASININE ideas mankind has ever perpetuated.

So get out of here with this, we don't want equality crap.

It's those who want to take a higher percentage of the things that people have WORKED and SACRIFICED and PLANNED to be able to get to GIVE it to those that HAVEN'T that don't want EQUALITY...

Jaden

p.s. I'm not even close to being a 1 %er but I still know what is just and taking from those who have sacrificed to give to those who haven't done anything but waste their lives is NOT just.

a reply to: RomeByFire
They don't want Freedom either, that would scare them half to death.

Equality is a built-in impossibility of the world's current financial system.
Balance is not achievable when one side of the scale takes from the other.

Poverty in America looks like plush living to half the world.
But the view from the top is different.

a reply to: Masterjaden

So does the government have the right to use my taxes in excess for things like foreign aid, military equipment, military bases, and corporate welfare? Government was created to benefit it's citizens. They spend more or our tax dollars overseas than here at home!!

Education is what makes an economy strong! To expect citizens to pay for something that is directly related to improving a country's economy and strength is absolutely ludicrous. Do you really believe if government continues to cut education funding, and continues to increase student tuition debt, it won't drastically affect our economy?

Providing healthcare is a basic human right. To privatize it for profit is allowing insurance companies to take advantage of someone when they're at the most vulnerable moment in life. Nothing like dangling a carrot above someone's head and saying you either pay or die!

Government will be the first to force your child to fight an overseas conflict against your wishes. They can put our lives in harms way, but they don't want to preserve our lives. Human lives are only important when it benefits them.

Yeah, people are entitled to get back what they pay in taxes! We all are forced to give a percentage of our income to government in return for programs that will help it's citizens. If you pay for something, you should expect to get something back in return. They choose to squander and use our tax dollars for programs that don't directly benefit it's citizens.

a reply to: RomeByFire

I want equality.

I want everyone to have the same opportunities as the next person.

And that should require work. Not handouts.

originally posted by: ADAMandEVIL
Equality is a built-in impossibility of the world's current financial system.
Balance is not achievable when one side of the scale takes from the other.

This kind of sums it up. And so from within we conjure all sorts of ideas to provide that "equality" for all and we end up dividing ourselves further.

We are programmed to think that money is the only form of abundance, when it really is not. It is the root cause of the instability or how the banking cartels don't want to provide that equility cause THEY want to be in control.

Peace

Here's to examples of why we have this inertia when it comes to favorable economic progress:

originally posted by: Masterjaden
You're coming from an entitlement attitude that is just wrong. You are not entitled to ANYTHING... They are not entitled to ANYTHING...

Sure, I want them to have a higher paying job. I want them to be able to take care of their health... I want them to be able to buy a new car, and have a cell phone...

The question isn't whether 'I' want them to have those things, or whether YOU want them to have those things....

The question is whether THEY want them to have those things.

Blatant nonsense. Labor supply does not create labor demand. At any given moment, there's always a finite number of "good jobs" to be had and over time, the percentage has been diminishing. How is it that this point is always lost on people who spout this rhetoric in defense of unfettered capitalist greed?

originally posted by: Bluntone22
Poverty in America looks like plush living to half the world.
But the view from the top is different.

So that's the standard? People shouldn't worry about wage inequality or the expanding wealth gap because the third world exists?

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: RomeByFire

The only thing I can say is that .....I don't even know where to begin...

You're coming from an entitlement attitude that is just wrong. You are not entitled to ANYTHING... They are not entitled to ANYTHING...

Sure, I want them to have a higher paying job. I want them to be able to take care of their health... I want them to be able to buy a new car, and have a cell phone...

The question isn't whether 'I' want them to have those things, or whether YOU want them to have those things....

The question is whether THEY want them to have those things.

If THEY want to have those things, then THEY need to do the things that will give them the ability to GET those things.

So the question isn't whether we want equality or not, because WE DO... We want equality of opportunity and it's there.

Maybe not 100%, but it's there....

Do you know how we KNOW that it's there?

Because every day, those that truly WANT to EARN those things get up and do the things necessary to GET those things.

To have NONE of the skills that can get you those things and to expect them to be handed to you because you are here and exist is one of, if not THE, most ASININE ideas mankind has ever perpetuated.

So get out of here with this, we don't want equality crap.

It's those who want to take a higher percentage of the things that people have WORKED and SACRIFICED and PLANNED to be able to get to GIVE it to those that HAVEN'T that don't want EQUALITY...

Jaden

p.s. I'm not even close to being a 1 %er but I still know what is just and taking from those who have sacrificed to give to those who haven't done anything but waste their lives is NOT just.

I never once said anyone was entitled to anything.

I never even said how I feel about these issues!

It's very telling about your person when you can say (your words):

"Because every day, those that truly WANT to EARN those things get up and do the things necessary to GET those things. "

Oh yes - and tens and possibly hundreds of millions of people don't get up to do the necessary things to get those things - you must have a lot of friends!

By the way, what are these "things?" I truly don't know - things is a purposefully vague term like you're entire post.

And again - your words - I have re-read this and I just don't know what you are trying to say.


"Sure, I want them to have a higher paying job. I want them to be able to take care of their health... I want them to be able to buy a new car, and have a cell phone...

The question isn't whether 'I' want them to have those things, or whether YOU want them to have those things....

The question is whether THEY want them to have those things."

Again - with "them," and "things,"

What are you referencing too?

You didn't even bother commenting on anything I said, literally nothing.

You just want on about "them wanting things," which is not something I'm sure I quite understand?

Try bringing something of substance, such as what it is that they want, and please clarify your multiple uses of "things" (dog toys? private jet? food?), and exactly how it's going to entice or objectify Americas interests.

"Them and things," however, seems more reasonable to some.

originally posted by: rockintitz
a reply to: RomeByFire

I want equality.

I want everyone to have the same opportunities as the next person.

And that should require work. Not handouts.

So what exactly entails hand-outs?

Do you have a problem to hand-outs to too big to fail banking establishments?

Do you have a problem with how much of your tax goes to military spending?

"Oh those whiny entitled brats, how dare they want or strive for free education! How will our job creators pay off their 3rd vacation home or their 2nd private airstrip?"

How about taxes, oh wait, no taxes on companies that have profits in U.S. $Billions?

I forget - Americans don't care about this sort of corporate socialism and a "for the rich, by the rich," policy. They actually enjoy it - it's obvious.

Again - Americans don't want equality.

Equality would be giving out (your words) "Hand-outs," because God forbid people have the ability to pay for a college tuition while working full-time at a minimum wage gig - we need to work harder, you're absolutely right, you know the personal details of tens and hundreds of millions of struggling Americans, THE SAME WAY we give out handouts to those who are THE 1%.

Haha I just love the term, "hand-outs."

The government takes 53 cents out of every dollar I make for military expenditure.

"But we need to get them terrorists, even though we trained, armed, and fund them,"

This countries priorities are so asinine.

Spend $610 Billion in defense in one year and people shudder at the notion of a raised minimum wage and other "hand-out" Socialist programs, excluding those that already exist in America -

NASA
National Weather Service
Public Parks
Prisons
Jails
Public Schools
Secret Service
Vaccines
Public Universities
Sewer Systems
Roads and Insteratate Highway
Department of Agriculture
Amber Alerts
Amtrak
Public Beaches
Public Busing Service
Business Subsidies
The IRS
Public Landfills
Public Libraries
Medicare
Medicaid
The CIA
The FBI
The Court System
Department of Energy

originally posted by: theantediluvian
Here's to examples of why we have this inertia when it comes to favorable economic progress:

originally posted by: Masterjaden
You're coming from an entitlement attitude that is just wrong. You are not entitled to ANYTHING... They are not entitled to ANYTHING...

Sure, I want them to have a higher paying job. I want them to be able to take care of their health... I want them to be able to buy a new car, and have a cell phone...

The question isn't whether 'I' want them to have those things, or whether YOU want them to have those things....

The question is whether THEY want them to have those things.

Blatant nonsense. Labor supply does not create labor demand. At any given moment, there's always a finite number of "good jobs" to be had and that over time, the percentage has been diminishing. How is it that this point is always lost on people who spout this rhetoric in defense of unfettered capitalist greed?

originally posted by: Bluntone22
Poverty in America looks like plush living to half the world.
But the view from the top is different.

So that's the standard? People shouldn't worry about wage inequality or the expanding wealth gap because the third world exists?

His reference to the Third World is a logical fallacy, one called Appeal to Emotion.

yourlogicalfallacyis.com...

It's very annoying, and is used very often. My favorite -

"I don't care what is in our food, or how it's made - there are those who go without, so I count my blessings, and carry on,"

It has no substance to the topic and instead diverts the narrative into personal-based attacks rather than topic-orientated discussions.

Thing is - most people don't even know they're doing it, hence the logical fallacy.

And in the truly greater scope of things, "the third world?"

Wait - what third world?

I thought we only had one - Earth. But hey, we Earthlings have a moral obligation to prevent our other Earthlings from flourishing because they're entitled and want hand-outs, but let's spend trillions of dollars bombing this country so we can weaken its populace and defenses that way we can implement our own puppet dictatorship so that we can buy our oil at a cheaper rate, and anytime any of the people of this country try to attack us, we point the finger at them for throwing the first stone and then drop a nuke 13 miles from an elementary school!

America! **** yeah!

originally posted by: rockintitz
a reply to: RomeByFire

I want equality.

I want everyone to have the same opportunities as the next person.

And that should require work. Not handouts.

Except that there's never been a point where everybody was on an equal footing. What percentage of poor kids in rural Appalachia are going to go on to make the same sort of living as a kid from an affluent family in the burbs? Why is it so difficult to acknowledge that circumstances, particularly early in a person's life — a time over which they have very little control — can confer advantages and disadvantages which in turn leads to a very uneven playing field?

I make six figures in IT and I telecommute. It comes easy to me. I didn't bust my ass in school, I cruised right through. I've never even had an interview that didn't result in employment. I suppose you'd have me believe that every person who isn't doing as well as me is just a lazy mooch waiting for a handout?

It's all coming to a head now anyway. At the rate we're going, within the next generation or two there won't be enough decent jobs to keep the charade of the American Dream going among even the diehard right-wingers. That's when the elites will get yet another chance to divert from the course that has predictably led to revolution throughout human history before there's enough disillusioned people who decide it's time to revolt.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
Poverty in America looks like plush living to half the world.
But the view from the top is different.

Which is a discussion of its own, and as two others have mentioned, the sense of inequality has been engrained into every aspect of our society. Imo, it's all Americans know - and they don't want to change that.

That's why you here things like that, "that's just the way it is," it's an easy excuse and way of saying "I don't care about this, it doesn't affect me, there's nothing I can do about it," which in itself has - again - been engrained into our society and - again - it's all Americans know.

Facing true change in this nation in the form of a political movement terrifies most Americans because their simplistic, cozy routine of a life could become much different.

We'd actually begin to work with one another, want to benefit one another, and live in each other's service.

You think a bunch of racist and classist folks will resonate with that idea?

It's the same notion held towards "the third world," one of uninterest, one of apathy.

It all could just be so, so much different, for everyone.

But people really don't want that. As Dave Mustaine once said,

"Peace sells, but who's buying?"

Why when we can buy a new IPhone, only to throw it away when the new one comes out?

We collectively, embrace and love waiting outside and camping in front of electronic stores to buy our new toys.

People deserve to eat?

Pfh, I'm gonna tweet how pathetic you are from my new Galaxy S.

originally posted by: theantediluvian

originally posted by: rockintitz
a reply to: RomeByFire

I want equality.

I want everyone to have the same opportunities as the next person.

And that should require work. Not handouts.

Except that there's never been a point where everybody was on an equal footing. What percentage of poor kids in rural Appalachia are going to go on to make the same sort of living as a kid from an affluent family in the burbs? Why is it so difficult to acknowledge that circumstances, particularly early in a person's life — a time over which they have very little control — can confer advantages and disadvantages which in turn leads to a very uneven playing field?

I make six figures in IT and I telecommute. It comes easy to me. I didn't bust my ass in school, I cruised right through. I've never even had an interview that didn't result in employment. I suppose you'd have me believe that every person who isn't doing as well as me is just a lazy mooch waiting for a handout?

It's all coming to a head now anyway. At the rate we're going, within the next generation or two there won't be enough decent jobs to keep the charade of the American Dream going among even the diehard right-wingers. That's when the elites will get yet another chance to divert from the course that has predictably led to revolution throughout human history before there's enough disillusioned people who decide it's time to revolt.

Thank you for wording that in a way that is more sane and calm than what I try to write.

It's simply illogical to think that the 3rd child of a single mother in downtown Chicago can have the same opportunities as the 1st child of let's say - David Rockefeller.

I had an old boss that was pretty cool, during smoke breaks we'd chat it up about this stuff and I remember him telling me (may be a bit off),

"There's an old saying, "rise early, work hard, strike oil.... except for there's no oil."

At the current minimum wage, working a full 52-week work year (this obviously never happens) would still land you underneath the poverty level.

Where some would rather just move the poverty level and say - there! We fixed it! - we need to actually engage in serious and long-term discussions regarding conditions in this country.

What kind of nation are we forging and leaving behind for our children?

What happened to America, honestly?

originally posted by: Bluntone22
Poverty in America looks like plush living to half the world.
But the view from the top is different.

Hm. Thus those at the bottom should suck it up & aim to do better in life, I presume?

Why would that not apply to a government as well? Just because it looks better than a 3rd world hellhole's government & coffers doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement & thus social betterment. Kind of like what the smug classists tell the poor folk to do -- aim for better, BE better, ya lazy useless schmuck. Right? Or should a government just feel free to throw away money left & right & not bother giving anything better back to the tax payers? That would seem to be the government equivalent of giving someone a high-limit CC to use for whatever they want, and no firm basic requirements for it's use. Thus the CC holder's family suffers while they buy a bunch of crap at will while shorting the family on the basics they really need.

a reply to: theantediluvian

I am the american dream. I have a high school diploma, started working p/t at the age of 13. I was told my my legal immigrant parent that opportunities were "out there", and if I didn't like working for someone else, to start my own business. I worked fast food, at time to the belittlement of my peers. I rose up through the ranks, from supervisor to manager. I saved, went to the bank, started my own company because I could do it better, most cost effective and faster(I was wrong in the beginning, but proven right in the long run). I, along with my co-workers(they are a large part of realizing my dream, so to me they're not my employees) put in long hours and hard work to build this business from the ground up. You know, the American Dream.

I now own several businesses, have managers from college grads to HS grads with successful work histories, and some workers at entry level $2 over minimum wage that abhor the entitlement mentality, and just want a job with the possibility of advancement. Point is, if a HS graduate with a work history of fast food can attain the American Dream, damn near anyone who will be willing to sacrifice and work hard and risk all can have it as well. The only ones scoffing at the concept of the American Dream are the ones who aren't willing to do what it takes to achieve it. I am living it.

originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: rockintitz
a reply to: RomeByFire

I want equality.

I want everyone to have the same opportunities as the next person.

And that should require work. Not handouts.

So what exactly entails hand-outs?

Do you have a problem to hand-outs to too big to fail banking establishments?

Of course I do.

Do you have a problem with how much of your tax goes to military spending?

Most definitely.

"Oh those whiny entitled brats, how dare they want or strive for free education! How will our job creators pay off their 3rd vacation home or their 2nd private airstrip?"

How are you proposing to make education free? Should the faculty of universities work on a volunteer basis?

How about taxes, oh wait, no taxes on companies that have profits in U.S. $Billions?

I'd rather have no taxes at all. Feds don't know how to manage anyones money.

I forget - Americans don't care about this sort of corporate socialism and a "for the rich, by the rich," policy. They actually enjoy it - it's obvious.

BS. I don't enjoy anything about the massive wealth disparity around the world. I'm just not holding out my hands and asking "where's mine?"

Again - Americans don't want equality.

Equality would be giving out (your words) "Hand-outs," because God forbid people have the ability to pay for a college tuition while working full-time at a minimum wage gig - we need to work harder, you're absolutely right, you know the personal details of tens and hundreds of millions of struggling Americans, THE SAME WAY we give out handouts to those who are THE 1%.

Heard of scholarships?

Haha I just love the term, "hand-outs."

Haha. I'm even chuckling at that.

The government takes 53 cents out of every dollar I make for military expenditure.

So trust them with more money? WTF are you even getting at?

"But we need to get them terrorists, even though we trained, armed, and fund them,"

This countries priorities are so asinine.

Spend $610 Billion in defense in one year and people shudder at the notion of a raised minimum wage and other "hand-out" Socialist programs, excluding those that already exist in America -

I'd be all for scaling back the military budget.

NASA
National Weather Service
Public Parks
Prisons
Jails
Public Schools
Secret Service
Vaccines
Public Universities
Sewer Systems
Roads and Insteratate Highway
Department of Agriculture
Amber Alerts
Amtrak
Public Beaches
Public Busing Service
Business Subsidies
The IRS
Public Landfills
Public Libraries
Medicare
Medicaid
The CIA
The FBI
The Court System
Department of Energy

Dumb iPad won't let me quote line by line. Bold is mine.