What can we do to stop the madness of the immigration issue

The smugglers need to be targeted more aggressively. It's mainly the traffickers and smugglers responsible for deaths, many in the EU are actually helping, but I think it's about time we recognise a good proportion maybe over a third are refugees and we need to help these people, we would expect help if we were found to be ever in refugee status.

a reply to: woodwardjnr


We do need to help them. The dilemma is how? I know this is going to sound awful, but I'm trying to think how.

When Arab's flee to other ME countries, they put them in Refugee Camps. Now, I know that's not how the West rolls, but this a crisis. Europe cannot continue to try to integrate them into their societies, because as it turns out, there are too many of them. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Get some acreage in the 'popular countries' put tents on it, run some water for a couple of bath houses, put up a couple of tents with electricity and kitchen, and drop them off rice and beans, whatever to keep them alive until they can return. Can't keep giving them free housing and welfare. Too many and too expensive.

I know it sounds heartless, but returning them to war zones is worse.

I'm surprised I haven't seen any of you bring called racist.

Must be good to be a European! Your not labeled a racist every second for trying to preserve your country!

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: woodwardjnr

Can't keep giving them free housing and welfare. Too many and too expensive.

I know it sounds heartless, but returning them to war zones is worse.

I believe it's heartless to try and support them by giving them a place in a new society. That way they'll just stay weak forever. They need to become organized, drafted into an army, be given guns, other military equipment and training and then they'll have to go back as an army to settle the problems in their countries.

As it is the bad guys are just getting away with their evil deeds because other countries support the refugees.

And once the refugees are in control and have things sorted out, they'll still have to pay for the guns, shelter, food and training and repay their debts to those countries who helped them at the time. Because that is what it takes to become a stable and thriving society. People who get money for nothing will just get lazy and demand even more money, they will not appreciate it like they should and thus never learn the value of money.

Something many refugees (in the EU) from what I've seen lack; they demand to get help as if they have a right to other people's hard earned money, they should be more modest, quiet and grateful and certainly not demand anything and make their problems other countries' problems. Even though they should (go to war to change regimes), if only because it would be cheaper and the world safer in the long run.

a reply to: onequestion I think most people appreciate its a humanitarian situation not seen in Europe since the 2nd world war.

a reply to: xoenneox

We can stop war by refusing to be slaves of the military industrial complex, and thus it would eventually cease to function. As to the reasons for the war in Syria, and the Middle East in general; there’s blatantly a collective of genocidal maniacs whom want rid of particular bloodlines, and then there is an unholy obsession with finding a certain something which has eluded them for a very long time (whatever that may be, I imagine Ancient Egypt is relevant). Then there’s outright gluttony which in all honesty is likely the primary driving force. Seemingly they’ll stop at nothing in order to attain absolute domination, which quite frankly is unobtainable because nature will always run its course... it is but a matter time.

a reply to: liteonit6969
We need to make more of a global effort to control and curb populations from overcrowding unsustainable areas.

Perhaps more wide spread natural disasters or the like.

I'm not sure what can save our world from rampant overpopulation.

I can't blame other nations for keeping their guard up and denying the influx of these displaced souls.

I wish the US would do more to keep this invasion to a minimum as well.

Survival of the fittest, I guess. Although it's always the poorest and least educated countries that have massive overpopulation.

a reply to: liteonit6969

Every country should take them in.
I would run from ISIS and the war so would any decent person.
Our governments can afford to help every single one.
Or we go in and sort the place out once and for all.

a reply to: CranialSponge

Way to chop a single paragraph into two separate statements in order to twist out of context what i said to reiterate your non point...

They are not being chased into dinghy's by gangs of armed men bent on raping their wives and killing their kids. They are doing so from already safe countries, such as Turkey, which is more than capable of taking the strain but simply allows them to pass through towards Europe.

You're also conflating genuine refugees (of which most of these people trying to get into Europe are not) and economic migrants. I have sympathy for the former, but not the latter.

a reply to: angeldoll

As I said on another Thread, if the men didn't flee and fought instead then maybe this child and others could go home.

Fleeing plays right into ISIS hands.

What happened in WWII? W stood and fought (well i didnt personally but you know what i mean)

a reply to: johnnyjoe1979

I believe it's heartless to try and support them by giving them a place in a new society. That way they'll just stay weak forever.

Surely you didn't actually believe this absurd comment would come across as benevolent? I'm sure the Syrians wouldn't appreciate your little show of generosity. I didn't and I'm American.

Humans have this little built-in trait called "survival instinct". You can call it 'weakness' if you want to show how little you know about human behavior.

originally posted by: stumason

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
So our constant promotion of Westernization actually inspires people to want to come & share in the dream.

Quite why they don't take that as an inspiration to change things in their own countries is a bloody mystery though. In many African countries, the forces of the state are weak and minuscule in comparison to their populations. With a bit of organisation and common sense, they could actually effect change back at home, but they don't for the most part.

You're conveniently leaving something out. Almost all African countries just regained their independence from Western countries during the Cold War (since the 1950s). Most had to fight brutal revolutions to gain their freedom, which is why their infrastructures are taking so long to be rebuilt.

And here's some African countries with sanctions against them right now: Central African Republic, Ivory Coast, DR Congo, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, South Sudan, and Zimbabwe. Then you have countries like Libya, Mali, Somalia (al Shabaab), and Uganda (Joseph Kony) that the West has recently intervened in militarily. Then there are the massive "blood mineral"/"blood diamond" sanctions against various countries in central & southern Africa, which is crippling exports by dictating who those countries can sell their minerals to (like the "Kimberely Process"). Then there's the economic angle, where the IMF forces the same austerity packages onto African borrowers as they do everyone else.

There are definitely some corrupt leaders, just like everywhere else. But the African nations have been making tremendous strides this last decade, even in spite of the sanctions & other growing pains. Ethiopia & Uganda are 2 major examples. I kind of wish I could briefly travel 20 years into the future to see both of those countries then, because I believe their infrastructures will have caught up to the infrastructures here.

originally posted by: TruthxIsxInxThexMist
a reply to: angeldoll

As I said on another Thread, if the men didn't flee and fought instead then maybe this child and others could go home.

Fleeing plays right into ISIS hands.

What happened in WWII? W stood and fought (well i didnt personally but you know what i mean)

Uhh, your example's a little off. You realize hundreds of thousands of Jews fled Europe during WWII, right? Millions if you include the decade leading up the war. And something like 200,000 people have already been killed in Syria. Clearly that option isn't working too well.

And it's hard to expect fathers, husbands, brothers, grandfathers & sons to just throw away their dreams & fight. Especially when their newfound enemy is better equipped, better funded, and has no problem committing atrocities. Don't tell me you forgot the youtube video of the "moderate" Syrian rebel who ate a Syrian soldier's corpse's heart on video? Or the massacres & mass raping al-Nusra committed?

Believe it or not, but some people just want to live. If that means packing your bags & leaving, then so be it. If my neighborhood was being invaded by a vastly superior force, my family's safety would be my 1st priority. Me dying because of pride or false macho crap wouldn't help anything because my family would still have to seek safety, only they'd have to do it without my help. Screw that.

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: johnnyjoe1979


Surely you didn't actually believe this absurd comment would come across as benevolent? I'm sure the Syrians wouldn't appreciate your little show of generosity. I didn't and I'm American.

Actually I do :-)
What would not be benevolent is to either enslave them, imprisonment or killing them at the borders.
It is benevolent to share knowledge and train them so they can learn how to defend themselves. If I was in their shoes and somebody offered me a gun and other means so I can go back home and try to make it a better place then I would appreciate that. We don't owe them anything.

Humans have this little built-in trait called "survival instinct". You can call it 'weakness' if you want to show how little you know about human behavior.

Walking away from problems shows weakness, depending on the problem. Sometimes it takes strenght to let something go and walk away. But in this case they should stand their ground and fight for their home, not leave it. They need to learn lessons. Just an example I saw this camp the other day in the media and it was an all male camp. So those men actually left the women and children behind!

The problem is we are too nice to immigrants maybe we need to take a stand like the Saudi's have done, look up Saudis Arabia border wall they are building, and look at Israel's Wall that is up.

I guess if we do this on the southern border we would eliminate most of the problems

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Well that 'child' wont get to go home then will he?

Don't forget they are risking their childs life by sending them on dodgy boats too... many have died that way also.

Mentioning what happened ti the Jews... well this could happen again you know because Europeans are getting restless and angry again... it seems to be following the same pattern..

a reply to: johnnyjoe1979

I agree with you to a degree, and have in fact made the same point myself in other threads. But I understand their version when I hear them speak... it's a losing battle and they need help. At the same time, I think the help should come from their surrounding neighboring countries, and not depend on different cultures and far-away lands to fight this fight for them.

On the otherhand, the U.S. wasn't being usurped by Nazi's, and we assisted in that fight. History shows we did the right thing in having done so.

a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

Well it is not going to happen around here.

Not without some legs getting broken for anyone who tries it anyway. If it looks like a Nazi, acts like a Nazi, and talks like a Nazi, you fight it, and you beat it so badly that it never dares look up from the ground again, or dies, which ever comes first.

The only thing that cannot be tolerated here, of all places, is a resurgence of xenophobia driven extermination policy and oppression. This nation has done an awful lot of wrong, and had its own rabid bastards before, during, and after Second World War, but xenophobia as a political movement will not be allowed to gain power here, and if it ever tries, its advocates will be dissuaded or destroyed in short order.

For those who express no hatred toward their fellow man, there is a principle which despite their various backgrounds and cultures, despite their various reasons for taking up acceptance and peace as preferred options, unites them. A uniform and total hatred of hate movements. There are more of those quietly going about their business and causing no fuss around here, than there are closet jackboot cases, and because it is ALL human suffering that drives our anger, and all instances where people treat others as less than human, which make us want to chew up a bag of razors and spit them in the face of hate itself, we are the more motivated, we are the more put upon, and we are a silent majority.

There is a giant which sleeps under these lands, and whatever may rise upon its back, will never be as great as ITS fury, should it be moved to express it.

Link


Estimated number of refugees taken in by the surrounding countries thus far:

Turkey: 1.7 million
Lebanon: 1.2 million
Jordan: 625,000
Iraq: 245,000
Egypt: 137,000

Looking at the geographical size of countries like Lebanon and Jordan I think it's safe to assume they've pretty much maxed out their ability to continue taking in all these people.

A further 7.6 million Syrians have been internally displaced within the country, bringing the total number forced to flee their homes to more than 11 million - half the country's pre-crisis population.

Where the hell are all of these people going to go if this civil war continues to escalate ?

Three million Syrians have become refugees abroad and 6.5 million more have fled their homes for other locations within the country (a group known as "internally displaced people," or IDPs)—all told, roughly 43 percent of Syria's pre-war population of 22 million. The study comes a week after the UN announced that almost 200,000 people have died in the conflict. It's the "biggest humanitarian emergency of our era," according to the UN's refugee agency.

Relative to the advance of the Islamic State in Syria and Iraq, the war between Israel and Hamas, and the collapse of the Libyan government, the worsening humanitarian crisis in Syria has received scant attention in recent months. But it's no less consequential a development in the region. What does it mean for a country's future when half its people are uprooted? What does it mean for Syria's neighbors, including Lebanon, which now has the highest proportion of refugees of any country in the world, and Jordan, which has taken in a comparable number of Syrian refugees to all of Canada moving to the U.S.?

www.theatlantic.com...

Wow.