What can we do to stop the madness of the immigration issue

Hi

I've been watching and reading on the situation with immigration and refugees being left to die like rats. Up until now I like everyone else just gets on with it using our human mechanism to ignore the horrors in order to preserve our own mental state. However after seeing the images in the article below I can't turn a blind eye any more. We need to do something en mass. We need to take to the streets to demand our governments fix this problem which THEY have created.
Put yourself in the position of these refugees. Taking your young children in the middle of the night and making a treacherous boat trip to a safe island. Only to be capsized and you can do nothing but watch your child cry for you to save them. But you know you can do NOTHING. If this is not sorted now then humanity will never return from these inhumane acts.

We need ideas to gain support in all areas. It's not enough to hope someone else will do it.

link to article

Sir.
We, lemmings cannot do anything.
They should stop wars, that's it.
You cannot stop a war, ok?
War is a business, allright?
Someone want wars, endless wars - endless cash.

a reply to: liteonit6969

I watched footage and interviews with Syrians yesterday and could barely keep from weeping. One was a thirteen year old boy, handsome and intelligent, who said "we need help. We don't want to go to Europe, we want to go home. We need someone to help us stop the war".

Emotion lost in translation, but it was moving and they all seemed without hope.

Nobody wants them because nobody can afford them. Oh, what to do, nobody knows. (sniff)

Compromise. Hopefully the next US pres can lead in this area. I *think* a good compromise would be securing the borders and providing existing illegal immigrants a path to citizenship.

But I'm pretty sure a compromise or the president leading is wishful thinking at this point. The left/right split paradigm seems to be as strong as it's ever been. Not sure how one side can be all wrong and the other side can be all right. There's good ideas on both sides of the isles. But lines and been drawn and heels have firmly planted and no one seems to be willing to budge.

originally posted by: xoenneox
Sir.
We, lemmings cannot do anything.
They should stop wars, that's it.
You cannot stop a war, ok?
War is a business, allright?
Someone want wars, endless wars - endless cash.

That's the way I see it as well. Eventually WW3 will begin and most of us will be killed as collateral damage or immigrants ourselves.

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: xoenneox
Sir.
We, lemmings cannot do anything.
They should stop wars, that's it.
You cannot stop a war, ok?
War is a business, allright?
Someone want wars, endless wars - endless cash.

That's the way I see it as well. Eventually WW3 will begin and most of us will be killed as collateral damage or immigrants ourselves.

Look, this is simple:
we do not know, WHY there's problem in Syria, for example.
Media are not interested in investigation...can you agree?
Years are passing by, people are dying, we have more and more advertisements in TV....you know how it works....ok?
Wars continue.

I think this is a terrible situation. However, blaming a reluctant Europe for the stupidity of people who attempt to cross the Mediterranean in boats that are unseaworthy is a bit rich.

Europe is contributing to the problem by accepting immigrants when they arrive and having ships at sea to "rescue" them. The one's that are unlucky are those that are sadly missed. The message from Europe is that "if you make it, then we'll accept you"! Crazy.

However, the problems have already started. Disgruntled immigrants who have not got what they wanted are already running amok in Calais and trashing Kos and other places. When Europe has a million immigrants who expect gold, but don't get it then they'll be hell to pay.

EDIT to add that immigrants are being recued in sight of the North African coast, and clapped out boats are being left in the path of ships. Many people are being given a free ferry ride to Europe courtesy of the various European navies. It's the wrong message and not sustainable.

originally posted by: paraphi
I think this is a terrible situation. However, blaming a reluctant Europe for the stupidity of people who attempt to cross the Mediterranean in boats that are unseaworthy is a bit rich.

Have you ever think about fees, that are paid/per-head there?
Look, 600-1200 euro per head, from so-called poor country....think about it.
Three days ago austrian police found truck with 72 dead people.
Now, again - every man paid 600-1200 euro for trip.
Try to get 600-1200 euro in Syria.

The United Nations spends billions of dollars on useless studies and projections.

Where are they now when people actually need them?

originally posted by: olaru12
Eventually WW3 will begin and most of us will be killed as collateral damage or immigrants ourselves.

No.
That's the point:
WW3 is too costly to happen.
They just need small, easy, proper, devastating wars on economically troubled countries.
Cash is flowing.
WW3 means - end of cash, thing became serious.

p.s. Sorry for my english.

originally posted by: paraphi
EDIT to add that immigrants are being recued in sight of the North African coast, and clapped out boats are being left in the path of ships. Many people are being given a free ferry ride to Europe courtesy of the various European navies. It's the wrong message and not sustainable.

Quite - that just encourages the smugglers and migrants to try it more often. it is no coincidence that there has been a marked increase in attempts to cross (and rescues) since the EU navies started fishing them out the sea.

I have nothing against rescuing people, but drop them back off where they came from. The great majority of these people are not refuges at all, but economic migrants expecting the good life. I'm sorry, but that simply isn't a good enough reason for any EU country just to let you in.

Here is a good article on the "crisis" by the BBC.. Looking at the numbers, while there is certainly a good number coming from genuine war-torn countries, the good bulk of the people coming are from Africa and SE Asia - where aside from some low-level, localised conflicts it is generally safe.

600,000 people entered the EU in 2014 alone and we are already on course to smash that record this year. The sad fact is, the more the EU dithers, or even encourages such behavior, the worse it is going to get. Germany alone is expecting 800,000 this year - that is 1% of their total population and the equivalent of adding a city the size of Munich every year.

There needs to be firm, coordinated international action. Stopping the flow of people, dealing with the problems at source and if needs be, the deployment of the military to sort out the crisis that is causing such a stream of humanity. All of our leaders are showing them to be inadequate buffoons in this situation.

originally posted by: liteonit6969
Hi

I've been watching and reading on the situation with immigration and refugees being left to die like rats. Up until now I like everyone else just gets on with it using our human mechanism to ignore the horrors in order to preserve our own mental state. However after seeing the images in the article below I can't turn a blind eye any more. We need to do something en mass. We need to take to the streets to demand our governments fix this problem which THEY have created.
Put yourself in the position of these refugees. Taking your young children in the middle of the night and making a treacherous boat trip to a safe island. Only to be capsized and you can do nothing but watch your child cry for you to save them. But you know you can do NOTHING. If this is not sorted now then humanity will never return from these inhumane acts.

We need ideas to gain support in all areas. It's not enough to hope someone else will do it.

link to article

It depends on which immigrants we're talking about. I obviously can't list them all but I'll list a few reasons.

1. The black immigrants fleeing Libya are leaving because of the deteriorating conditions after Qaddafi's fall. The Wahabi militias have been targeting the black ethnic groups because they were allies of Qaddafi. Just look into the crisis of black lynchings and the massive black exodus to Libyan refugee camps since the NATO attacks. So if the racial tension in Libya can be calmed and the economic situation restored, those people won't have a reason to keep fleeing.

2. Syrian immigrants have been fleeing since the start of the Syrian Civil War. And Iraqi civilians, mainly Christians, have been fleeing since the start of the 2003 Iraq Invasion. It's pretty hypocritical for Western nations to support the destruction of those countries, back the militants who are attacking those countries' infrastructures, then complain when the victimized citizens try to escape to a safe place.

3. Eritrean citizens have been fleeing Eritrea for decades, but especially so in the last decade. I'm not an expert on them, but it's mostly because of how restrictive the Eritrean government is. Sometimes their athletes & pilots will seek asylum in other countries when on official trips. It will probably take nothing less than overthrowing their current leader to create conditions where their citizens won't flee. Israel gets a lot of immigrants from Eritrea & neighboring Ethiopia (Ethiopia has its own pros & cons but it's too complicated to list here).

4. Zimbabwean immigrants usually flee because of the economic situation & corruption. Plus Zimbabwe's had crushing international sanctions off & on since they pushed the British out, which certainly doesn't help. Haitian immigrants face a similar situation for similar reasons (look at their relations with the West ever since the slave revolt that granted them independence).

5. Most immigrants are simply looking for a chance at a better life. Most of the Somalian & Kurdish immigrants I know were escaping wars in their homelands. The Iraqi immigrants I knew were Christians who'd escaped during the 2003 War (went to Lebanon), then had to flee Lebanon during Israel's last war against Hezbollah. A Rwandan immigrant I knew in college lived in the refugee camps when soldiers came in and killed most of her family. She was one of the few who survived.

6. Then you have many others who are just doing it for economic reasons. If you've never traveled, you won't realize just how crazy the financial difference is in the rest of the world. 80% of the world's population lives on $10/day or less. And 40% of the world lives on $2.50/day or less (that's obviously skewed when accounting for kids, other dependents, and costs of living, but you get the point).

However, if you made 25 cents an hour working 10 hours a day in your homeland, what would you do? Especially if you knew you could go somewhere else & make more money in a full 8hr day than you would've made in a full month if you stayed home? And if all of the most powerful militaries in the world were crushing your infrastructure and blowing up your neighborhoods, what would you do? You could fight back (now you're a terrorist!) or try to escape with your family. The atrocious humanitarian situation in Yemen now is a perfect example of this.

Can I ask - how many of Libyans were fleeing while Mu'ammar al-Kaddafi was alive?
I think, that many of US citizens were happy to see killing of this man.
Had fun?
Thank you.
Go on, US....cash's flowin'.

a reply to: liteonit6969

Well, if you live in the UK, and Jeremy Corbyn actually becomes leader of the Labour Party, then we can vote for him. He is down with all the points you have just made.

Elsewhere, stop buying guns from anyone who pays a chunk back to the manufacturers, vote for the candidate in your area who runs on a ticket including shrunken use of PMCs in warfare, a vast shrinkage not of procurement, but of payments made to arms manufacturers, the arrest of everyone who has ever played a part in government while sitting on the boards of arms companies, private military firms, and the like, and their incarceration for the rest of time in the deepest bowel of the Earth for insider trading and treating lives like commodities.

Support candidates who want to end the reliance on oil, and want to rescind the laws which prevent nations, including some of the poorest in the world, from using cheaper, cleaner energy sources en masse, like solar in India for example. Support candidates and policies which promote peace with a combination of a lack of oil avarice, and a determination only to go to war to defend the nation...NOT its business interests elsewhere. Support candidates who want to end the absurd idea that companies are citizens, and who want to end, TOTALLY end money in politics for the rest of time.

Those are the things we can do.

a reply to: paraphi

However, blaming a reluctant Europe for the stupidity of people who attempt to cross the Mediterranean in boats that are unseaworthy is a bit rich.

It's more like stay home and face almost certain death, or take your chances at sea.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: liteonit6969

Well, if you live in the UK

You were able to sack out Blair for WRONG, f'ed up US businesses, man.
I admire UK, imho, this is european last hope to maintain our status.
F.cking Germany is still working on Hitler's thought, did you knew it?
It works, but EUROPA'S bleeding now.

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: paraphi

However, blaming a reluctant Europe for the stupidity of people who attempt to cross the Mediterranean in boats that are unseaworthy is a bit rich.

It's more like stay home and face almost certain death, or take your chances at sea.

Oh my, how sad it is...
Think WHY war is not stopped there, yet, ok?
CASH, innit?

TrueBrit, is this your real photo, man?
Damn , this is good avatar, mate.

As soon as you say "it's terrible, BUT..." I have no respect for your opinion on the matter.

Cameron caused this.

Imagine how bad it'd be if he got his wish to bomb Syria.


His mess, he better f#ing fix it... C#!!!

originally posted by: xoenneox
Can I ask - how many of Libyans were fleeing while Mu'ammar al-Kaddafi was alive?
I think, that many of US citizens were happy to see killing of this man.
Had fun?
Thank you.
Go on, US....cash's flowin'.

This is ridiculous. Although many felt Kaddafi should be assassinated, most Americans were appalled at the vicious and cruel way he was murdered by his own people. I bet those who slaughtered and sodomized him in the streets, in retrospect, wish they hadn't.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
As soon as you say "it's terrible, BUT..." I have no respect for your opinion on the matter.

Cameron caused this.

Imagine how bad it'd be if he got his wish to bomb Syria.


His mess, he better f#ing fix it... C#!!!

Cameron, seems to be scared by mrs.Merkel.
It should not look like this, ok?
GB is great country, I just cannot understand wtf is going on in GREAT BRITAIN RIGHT NOW, ok?
Stay proud, stay right, dammit.
I am Pole, btw.