The False Prophet of Revelation

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Akragon

I agree, the concept of Jesus returning to fix things for us goes against what Jesus taught.


...

The second coming teaches us not to worry about making peace because war is inevitable and part of God's great plan. In other words, don't love (make peace) your neighbor because conflict is unavoidable.

I disagree. If you follow what Jesus taught, he not only taught us to love one another, yes, but he also taught us to keep ourselves spiritually ready at all times, but part of keeping yourself spiritually ready is to seek to follow his word. It is a bit of cognitive dissonance to think that a Christian who is doing as they ought is going to assume they do not have to follow Christ's teaching because He is coming back.

Part of the condition of being ready for His return is to keep His commandments and do as He bid us.

So the only ones who would do as you say are not properly following Christ's teachings.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: DeathSlayer

Address the information presented and not the one presenting it, otherwise I will assume you have nothing to refute what I brought to the table.

I never said John was God, only John did. He claims God spoke through him meaning he was not the one speaking but God himself.

Thanks for playing though.

Maybe it is you who is saying John is God through your mistranslation and misunderstanding and not John.

Have you ever thought you could be wrong? This is your opinion of what the scriptures say and my opinion you are blind to the truth and can not be led to it even though you live on a religious forum pushing your anti-religion propaganda.

For someone who hates Christianity this just about the ONLY subject you want to talk about.

Man.......you really hate God but more importantly you blame God. Easy to prove ..... look at your religious threads. One thing I have to give you....you are consistent with your blasphemy.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Lets not forget revelation was rejected by the church for the first 400 some odd years after Jesus' death...

It was even rejected by the first council that established the initial canon of the bible...

And NO It wasn't At The council of Nicea

When Jerusalem was besieged and destroyed in 70 AD, very few Christian Jews were killed. That is because they saw the roman eagle standards being carried by soldiers in the temple courts as the "abomination that leads to desolation". They got out of town as suggested and it saved them.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ was accepted by early Christians as the final work of St John the Apostle. There is also evidence that they held the Roman Emperor Nero to be the Antichrist (from 54 AD, only 21 years after the crucifixion).

There was no 400 year wait.

Very good and I agree.

Also for those who don't know read through the dead sea scrolls you see teachings of OT and NT with clear teachings from Jesus.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Just because people hate religion it doesn't mean they hate God. They hate the man made version you follow.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Why would one not find some of Jesus' teachings in the dead sea scrolls?

He was raised in the same religion as those who wrote said scrolls...

And what does that have to do with the OP?

originally posted by: SilentHill666
I think I bought woodworm of the internet back when I used to read High Times and glorify drugs. I have been clean six months and trying to get a job on the books and live a healthy life. I think you put woodworm in liquor and leave it there and it makes absinthe. I don't know I threw that crap out looked like poison after a few days and probably would have killed me. I was under the understanding Apostle John wrote Revelation when he was older. Maybe someone who knew Jesus Christ and knew how debilitating a massive head injury can be and maybe he was saying a creature born of Chaos , the teachings of Jesus Christ would come back to provide structure and proper upbringing.

Congratulations on changing your lifestyle. Now the hard part is staying on that path so if I may:

Get rid of any friends who do drugs.....the temptation will be too great and it might cause you to relapse.

A very good support group is most churches, attend bible study and often to church and there you will find many who will support, had your problem and defeated it and will have some great tips.

God is clearly with you, throw away the guilt and depression....... this is what the enemy will remind you of everyday... trying to break you down, surrender to God and let God do his thing! Trust him and you will get that job and life will get better.

God bless you.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: DeathSlayer

Just because people hate religion it doesn't mean they hate God. They hate the man made version you follow.

So tell me what version to follow?

If I am not to follow man's version, then who? Which man or woman should I follow?

Why don't you try following Jesus and walking with him.He was a man and this man is who I follow and he selected apostles and I will follow their teachings from Jesus.

Oh and OP I agree God doesn't have an end of days plan for us it is all made up and while I do think Jesus may have existed and was a decent chap I think the son of god stuff and all the magic stuff was added later to big up the new religion.
There will be an end of days but lets hope it isn't brought forward by religious nuts who want to try and prove their religion right.
I have seen it on ATS often people foaming at the keyboard wanting it to happen.
Sick just sick.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Again, you are addressing me and not the information presented.

Tell me, why is John claiming to speak for God (Jesus) and also saying the time is near when Jesus warned us about both of those things?

Let's ignore the author of Revelation for a second though.

Revelation 1
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Who is saying this? If John, he is claiming to be God, if God then he is claiming to speak through John. John claimed to be Jesus through the words he wrote down either way you look at it.

a reply to: ketsuko

Christians claim to do as Jesus says yet they also claim to sin every day. Did Jesus teach us to sin? If not, Christians do not follow what Jesus told them to do.

Talk about cognitive dissonance.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
Oh and OP I agree God doesn't have an end of days plan for us it is all made up and while I do think Jesus may have existed and was a decent chap I think the son of god stuff and all the magic stuff was added later to big up the new religion.
There will be an end of days but lets hope it isn't brought forward by religious nuts who want to try and prove their religion right.
I have seen it on ATS often people foaming at the keyboard wanting it to happen.
Sick just sick.

So who do you follow and tell me how you do it?

What has God told you?

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: DeathSlayer

Again, you are addressing me and not the information presented.

Tell me, why is John claiming to speak for God (Jesus) and also saying the time is near when Jesus warned us about both of those things?

Let's ignore the author of Revelation for a second though.

Revelation 1
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Who is saying this? If John, he is claiming to be God, if God then he is claiming to speak through John. John claimed to be Jesus through the words he wrote down either way you look at it.

Again, you are addressing me and not the information presented.

The information you are presenting is coming from you......? Your interpetation...... so I am addressing the issue. You have misrepresented the meaning and now you attempt to misdirect those who are weak by attempting to show authority in your teachings.......your doctrine, your dogma, your teachings of men.......your antichrist teachings.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Why do I need to follow Jesus? he is a man just as I am, I don't do good things because of Jesus or God I do them because it is already in us it feels right.
Jesus didn't teach me how to be good I and everyone else already knows how to be.
It does make me wonder what some would do without the religious naughty step (hell) would they let their real feelings out and be bad?.
Because some of us don't need to be scared to be good.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Refute what I say. You have yet to do it.

Jesus warns us to not follow people who claim to be him.

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Who is saying this? John or God? Or is it both?

He also tells us not to follow people who say the time is near.

3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

So how is it you're not following a false prophet? How is it you're not ignoring Jesus' warning?

I hate to have to repeat myself but some people will do some impressive mental gymnastics in order to rid themselves of the cognitive dissonance. You are following someone who claims to be God (in their writings) and who says the time is near. You're ignoring Jesus' warning.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: DeathSlayer

Why do I need to follow Jesus? he is a man just as I am, I don't do good things because of Jesus or God I do them because it is already in us it feels right.
Jesus didn't teach me how to be good I and everyone else already knows how to be.
It does make me wonder what some would do without the religious naughty step (hell) would they let their real feelings out and be bad?.
Because some of us don't need to be scared to be good.

So who do you follow?

Who do you pray to? Joe Pesci like George Carlin?

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: DeathSlayer

Refute what I say. You have yet to do it.

Jesus warns us to not follow people who claim to be him.

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Who is saying this? John or God? Or is it be both?

He also tells us not to follow people who say the time is near.

3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

So how is it you're not following a false prophet? How is it you're not ignoring Jesus' warning?

I hate to have to repeat myself but some people will do some impressive mental gymnastics in order to rid themselves of the cognitive dissonance. You are following someone who claims to be God (in their writings) and who says the time is near. You're ignoring Jesus' warning.

And here is the mystery of your teachings...... you really don't care and I have refuted your dogma and teachings of men. Numerous threads have been made concerning the twisting and deceitful teachings of the bible. You are no better. Yoou take a verse you twist it to bring new meaning. It is useless to debate a few sentences when you can not grasp the overall teaching.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Sounds like a cop out to me...

a reply to: DeathSlayer

You haven't refuted anything I'm afraid. Saying you have is not the same as actually having done it. All you have done is say that I am wrong without any evidence to back it up. I have posted my evidence, you are willingly choosing to ignore the information I presented and thus Jesus' warning to you.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: ketsuko

Christians claim to do as Jesus says yet they also claim to sin every day. Did Jesus teach us to sin? If not, Christians do not follow what Jesus told them to do.

Talk about cognitive dissonance.

Jesus exists also so that we my be forgiven. All fall short of the mark as none of us is perfect.

I do my best to be perfect, but there are days when even I am short-tempered and accidentally let it slip on someone who did nothing to deserve it. There are days when I cannot deliver as I said I would. There are times when I want to be selfish.

All of these things are things I try to resist and sometimes I succeed and sometimes I fail. When I slip, I pray to be forgiven. Honestly, I pray to be forgiven every day just as I pray for guidance to avoid slipping in the first place.

“Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Matthew 12:30-32

a reply to: ketsuko

Jesus tells us the way to forgiveness.

Matthew 6
14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

Forgive others to be forgiven by Jesus' Father, that's all it takes.

Matthew 6
15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

If you don't forgive others, you won't be forgiven either. Doesn't matter if you believe in Jesus' sacrifice or not.

How can you argue against that? Probably with Paul and his teachings.

If you try hard enough, you won't have those outbursts against others in the first place. You have to want to be perfect to begin with, believing it is unattainable does you no favors and encourages you not to try.