Does enlightenment require any specific action (or absence thereof)?

originally posted by: Profusion
I think the following Bible verses clearly describe what this thread is about:

James 2 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

According to the verses above, Christians would claim that one cannot have 'enlightenment' (which they would define as faith in Jesus) without specific action ('good' works). In this thread I'm asking whether you agree with that concept. Does enlightenment require any specific action (or possibly the absence of any specific action)? This is not a thread about Christianity, I'm only using those verses to illustrate the question posed in this thread.

I think this is a crucial question. Consider the "Illuminati" for example. They claim to have 'enlightenment' while committing horrendous acts. Many popes throughout history, many cults and secret societies throughout history, many countries throughout history have claimed to have 'enlightenment' while committing horrendous acts. Is it possible to be enlightened while committing horrendous acts? I ask that question because I think that many people would claim that enlightened people would be incapable of committing horrendous acts. Do you agree?

Personally, I'm on the fence on this issue.

Haven't read the whole thread. Christians believe we are all sinners and mo acts or works will change that.

I believe the point being made, it is common theme, is that your words and your thoughts should ne congruent with your actions. Its the process not success that matters.

It is much like the faith of the centurian or the striped rods in the trough.

Don't send a hungry man off woth words of compassion and faith when he comes needing food and warmth.

You can pray, meditate, and even sing for God, but unless you actually keep Faith/Belief with you everyday, you won't hold on to Peace, Love, Joy (Fruits of The Holy Spirit). We choose to keep our Minds focused on joy, peace, love... or not.

Faith/Thought/Belief has power to create. With enough Faith/Belief it can even Heal or Move Mountains. And as you believe/have faith, it grows from a small mustard seed of faith to a tall tree and that faith/belief manifests miracles/changes in life.

This relates to the Original Post because, this is what True Enlightenment is in my opinion. It has nothing to do with a physical "action" but understanding The Grace/Spirit/Power of Faith beyond the action.

If you believe that action (physical) is most important, then you have a belief/faith similar to what the majority of other people believe.

It's when you believe in The Power of Thought/Belief/Faith (Spirit), that you are truly Enlightened.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
Mediation shrinks your amygdala, a part of your brain that controls your fear and flight/fight response.

Churches and systems of control don't want you to shrink that brain center -- as it makes you harder to scare and control. There's a reason religions frown on meditation and call it "demonic" -- you'll eventually become less fearful and harder to scare into submission.

Even worse if the mind conqueror the bodies fear response and have a amygdala fear overload.

a reply to: Profusion

Enlightenment is not something tangible that you can reach out and hold. It is a state of being and all souls have it, just to varying degrees because it is a frequency of spiritual energy, it can be felt and it can be brighter or dimmer depending on the cultural and environmental behavior of those you are around.

Being religious is often confused for enlightenment and it plays a role in the development, but it is not the way to reach the frequency needed to feel, it is only a step in the process. When you get to a point where religion is not necessary for you to achieve a connection to your higher power, that is when enlightenment truly starts to be realized.

originally posted by: soulpowertothendegree
a reply to: Profusion

Enlightenment is not something tangible that you can reach out and hold. It is a state of being and all souls have it, just to varying degrees because it is a frequency of spiritual energy, it can be felt and it can be brighter or dimmer depending on the cultural and environmental behavior of those you are around.

Being religious is often confused for enlightenment and it plays a role in the development, but it is not the way to reach the frequency needed to feel, it is only a step in the process. When you get to a point where religion is not necessary for you to achieve a connection to your higher power, that is when enlightenment truly starts to be realized.

Beautiful on all levels.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
Mediation shrinks your amygdala, a part of your brain that controls your fear and flight/fight response.

Churches and systems of control don't want you to shrink that brain center -- as it makes you harder to scare and control. There's a reason religions frown on meditation and call it "demonic" -- you'll eventually become less fearful and harder to scare into submission.

Fear in itself is not a bad thing...

In fact, fear can have a very positive aspect when it is used to warn us of real dangers.

The purpose of fear is to keep us out of trouble.

Legitimate warnings are based on human concern for others.

Scare tactics, on the other hand, have been used by those interested in power and control and is never motivated by love.

As said earlier, meditation can and will open the door for demonic harassment into a persons life.

The fact that so many here on ATS have confirmed this makes it very obvious that this isn't about manipulation.

These warnings are simply motivated by compassion and concern.

a reply to: Murgatroid

While fear itself is felt by all, the control that fear has is detrimental to the evolutionary process. Fear can be irrational and can cause those who have it to react poorly in their choices.

The way fear is good is not to allow it to overcome you but to acknowledge that it exist and overcome.

Meditation takes on many forms and yes some incantations can open a portal to evil, but that is only if the soul that is doing the searching allows for the evil to transpire.

Scare tactics and brainwashing, also, can only occur if the soul allows it, recognizing evil intent only comes from being exposed to it. It is up to each individual to channel their own energy into the proper format.

a reply to: Murgatroid

From your perspective...it seems that you yourself are trying to employ scare tactics that you warn against.

a reply to: Murgatroid

The only "demons" that exist are the ones you make up and believe in. Everything that exists in your reality is a projection from your own mind. Reality starts inside you. Everything is connected and a part of the whole.

It's easier to off load the responsibility of reality onto a deity figure that exists externally of ourselves. We're not responsible for our reality -- God is!! He made everything!

Well, in God is you, and you are God -- and you're simply living a simulation created by you so this "God" can experience itself as a human being.

If you believe in demons, then they'll be real. If you believe in a sky-God, then he'll be real. Hell -- if you believe in dragons deeply enough, you'll find evidence to support your reality here and there too.

Everything is everything.

I don't walk through life in fear of anything, because it's all of my making.

a reply to: LittleByLittle

Thank you that is very sweet of you!

a reply to: MystikMushroom

There are many things that transpire that the human construct has no knowledge of and that itself is part of the process to enlightenment. Figuring out what is real and what isn't. Certainly, what humans believe are integral to what they see, but it does not mean the spiritual realm is not real and that demonic presences are not in play daily, whether seen or not they exist.

The problem most have is they get caught up in semantics and trying to associate specific words to specific energies.

It does not matter what you call them, there can not be one without the other; balance is the necessity for enlightenment, which means, that in order for you to evolve you must experience all.

It does not mean you have to be evil or believe in demons, it just means that you must experience them in some form to benefit spiritually.

originally posted by: soulpowertothendegree
From your perspective...it seems that you yourself are trying to employ scare tactics that you warn against.

If you were standing next to someone in the street and you see a truck heading right at them would telling them about the truck be using 'scare tactics'?

Of course not, you would probably tackle them to get them out of harms way...

At what point does speaking what you know to be the truth become scare tactics?

How much do you have to hate somebody in order to remain politically 'correct'?

how much do you have to hate somebody to not proselytize? How much do you have to hate somebody to believe that everlasting life is possible and not tell them that? ~ Penn Jillette

originally posted by: soulpowertothendegree
a reply to: Profusion

Enlightenment is not something tangible that you can reach out and hold. It is a state of being and all souls have it, just to varying degrees because it is a frequency of spiritual energy, it can be felt and it can be brighter or dimmer depending on the cultural and environmental behavior of those you are around.

Being religious is often confused for enlightenment and it plays a role in the development, but it is not the way to reach the frequency needed to feel, it is only a step in the process. When you get to a point where religion is not necessary for you to achieve a connection to your higher power, that is when enlightenment truly starts to be realized.

pretty much. religions.. all religons old and modern are all true in all that they say. on a ritually symbolic level. what religion really is is like training wheels on a bicycle to teahch you how to ride. get you in the motions. subconsciously engraining yourself with psychological behaviours which naturally bring the awareness of spirit closer. religion is a good and complex yet necessary and useful thing for man. but at the end of the tunnel you see it for what it is. a teaching ground for those who need to be taught. but 99% of what ppl do in church, temple, mosque etc.. is merely symbolic and not the actual act or prayer that God wants us to discover. generally, the true act of the path is what you do outside the church in everyday life. how u live with ppl, how you share their pains, their burdens, those you help, the thoughts you keep in your mind, your honor, loyalty etc. values. that's what God wants.. he wants us all to have something that is described simply with a 5 letter word.

CLASS

a reply to: Murgatroid

As said earlier, meditation can and will open the door for demonic harassment into a persons life.

If you were standing next to someone in the street and you see a truck heading right at them would telling them about the truck be using 'scare tactics'?

One has nothing to do with the other.

You assert that meditation can be demonic and that to me is evidence of a scare tactic where as warning someone that a truck is barreling down on them is compassionate and the right thing to do, not a scare tactic.

Now if you tell someone that crossing the street in traffic will cause them to be killed, that is a scare tactic that would be acceptable, some are, but warning someone that mediation will bring demonic forces, that is unacceptable, unless it is pointed out to that same person that it is entirely up to them as to which force they accept into their spiritual being.

It is a choice for the individual spirit being to decide how and what method of meditation they employ, not that it will always lead to demonic dimensions.

a reply to: Murgatroid

Best way I have found to learn about this is by studying the lives of those who have seen and experienced firsthand both the counterfeit and the genuine.

So you studied the lives of sorcerer, occult grand master and a witch.....You my friend are keeping others from finding the truth spouting this in public...

Mediation shrinks your amygdala, a part of your brain that controls your fear and flight/fight response.

Churches and systems of control don't want you to shrink that brain center -- as it makes you harder to scare and control. There's a reason religions frown on meditation and call it "demonic" -- you'll eventually become less fearful and harder to scare into submission

Mystik Mushroom....You guys need to hang out!

Systems of control? You mean the faith and belief in Jesus Christ that I have? How in the holy crap is that a system to control me? I don't go to church or follow whatever you believe we all do.....

Sometimes I feel you guys classify all of us "believers" in the same category, sorry if that is the case but you poor souls need a little direction....Hopefully I can help you guys out! Please stop studying witches, black magic and talking about shrinking their brain center....

a reply to: John333

I disagree with your last statement, my higher power could care less about a 5 letter word and if there was one word it did want for humans to have specifically in their world of semantics it would be LOVE!

a reply to: soulpowertothendegree

But from my point of view Murgatroid:s view would for Murgatroid be a self fulfilling prophecy coming true and he should not meditate until he has another outlook on what he is going to encounter.

And even with my limited third eye ability not everything I get thru is nice/symbiotic in nature. If that is internal in me (spirit/mind/body complex) or external environment that I can connect to I am not 100% sure off. I guess it is a mix of both. Think both me and earth on a spiritual level could use a spiritual cleaning on all levels.

Enlightenment does require a specific action.......................now pull my finger.

a reply to: Profusion

part of enlightenmend includes being aware of its own unlimited free will. Not limited to duality. Thats the harsh truth compacted in one sentence. Although respect towards life is an universal law, it doesnt restrict anyone's actions whatsoever. Else it would have been already apparent.

However if any truly enlightened being decides to take lives for no reason, then its likely they are not enlightened at all OR have such strong goals that make them need to do these things. Dont believe enlightenment makes you an empty shell without any will to do anything else than just enjoy the ecstasy of its boundless awareness no no. You are still free to seek anything and have goals of your own volition. Its what true freedom is about.

See Shiva. Why is he often represented angry? Why would such being give in to rage which is supposedly a negative emotion? Because its one of his unique characteristics. Emotions are still present. Even more so in an awakened or a divinity like Shiva.

a reply to: _damon

Would enlightenment be a once in the life time process of sorts, that once something is met, or saying the right incantations, makes one enlightened? Like how when a soul in Buddhism complete, it just jumps out of the program and says done, and end up being bored like the Devas.

Or is it an never ending journey of accumulating experiences, breaking them down, and rebuilt for better for food for thoughts, understandings and much more expansive point of views, as well as being highly attuned with who one is, and embodying the virtues?