5 Things Shills Don't Want You To Know

a reply to: rockpaperhammock

tell us who they are! then ask them to hire me...id love to get paid to write bs...ive honestly never noticed them but thats probably cause i just block out everyone that i think is silly.

I actually stated in a recent thread about planes flying into buildings that I thought one of them might actually be a bot...he/she/it literally kept repeating him/her/itself word for word so many times over that I would have been frankly surprised to find an actual person on the other side of that computer screen. It was actually kind of creepy after a while, not gonna lie...

a reply to: Revolution9

I have never noticed anyone either and I am very aware of patterns and have a very good memory. I think the reason we do not notice them because it is a lot of hyped rumour. If I was any Intelligence Agency a site like ATS would be the least of my concerns.

I have an eidetic memory and do not forget anything (unfortunately). I also notice patterns. Neither of those things, however, have anything to do with what I said. It is the language that they use more than anything else that calls attention to them. And none of the ones I've noticed have been members prior to June of this year.

My father was a politician and they used to pay people to dig up dirt on each other, spread rumors, etc. It was a common practice, so it's not much of a leap to think that in 2015, with the internet being everyone's favorite pastime, people are being paid to do the very same type of thing on a much larger scale. I never heard the term "shill" before I signed up here; my dad didn't call them that either, but they were paid very well for spreading dirt and discrediting people who did not agree with the common consensus.

And there are most definitely bots out there...my brother and his nerd brigade create them for a side income sometimes, and here at the shop we actually get phone calls from them instead of live telemarketers...which is unsettling and creepy in my opinion, but probably a whole lot more cost-effective...they're never going to call in sick from work or need paid vacation time, right?

Pa, can I be a shill when I grow up!!?!

a reply to: schuyler

The ones who end up being shills, that think none exist are the ones constantly lying to us that it has to do with disagreeing, and that is the majority of everything.

They act just as the shills do, repeatedly claiming it is all about differing opinion, when actually the shill is so lost, they could NEVER entertain a new thought process. They do not HAVE an opinion.

a reply to: schuyler

There may be a couple of shills in the ATS mix. Who knows? But the term "shill" is normally used here to label someone who does not agree with the Conspiracy of the Day. It is used as an "ad hominem" attack against the poster which, of course, is a logical fallacy. You see the same logic used when someone criticizes any politically correct subject. For example, if someone points out that the quickest way to get AIDS is to be a promiscuous gay male, people will say, "You're a homophobe!" Or if someone says, "You know, Blacks have some problems they need to deal with in terms of their own behavior," we know without reading any further that they will inevitably be called a "racist." And just to list one that some people here will be on opposite sides of, if someone says, "You know, the Jews are the ones who call all outsiders "Gentiles." Well, of course they are "anti-semetic."

It's easy to label people rather than deal with the issues raised. What is particularly amusing is that some people feel they are just a bit extra smart and "know how to tell" if someone is a shill by paying careful attention to the wording. Every few weeks we get a post claiming "10 easy ways to tell if a shill is posting." and some such. Typical internet stuff: "10 easy ways to lose weight."

But the heart of the matter is this: When you see someone calling someone else a "shill," you know the accuser has no idea what he is talking about. He has absolutely no evidence whatsoever. It's a lazy fool's way out of dealing with the issues.

Kind of like using dismissive generalizations and making blanket statements about the character of people you don't even know? Or the lame attempts at sneaky "ad hominem"-ish jabs where you insinuate that anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion on the matter is "a lazy fool"? That people who notice strange behavior from other posters "feel they are just a bit extra smart"? Why, that almost sounds as if you're labeling folks, doesn't it? Strong work.

I don't know where the term "shill" comes from...I never even heard it before I joined this site, and to date it is the only place I've ever heard it, but there are in fact people out there who are paid to discredit others, particularly in the political arena and I'm pretty sure I've seen old threads on ATS where things like this were discussed, quite seriously, as being a problem here in the past. So obviously it's not just a bunch of people who have no idea what they are talking about.

I don't know anything about "paid shills", but people deliberately race-baiting on ATS? Check. Being warned not to continue doing it by mods? Check. People spamming threads in all caps with repetitive messages or posting the same exact copied & pasted articles over and over to deliberately clog a thread and derail the discussion when it is heading in a direction other than the one in which they're trying to steer it? Yep, and it's getting more and more frequent these days, particularly on threads that involve race and/or police misconduct and abortion. It definitely happens...paid? Who knows...and really, who cares? The possibility that they're getting paid is really irrelevant. But it happens, and it is very obvious when it does happen. You don't have to "know how to tell" anything...it's right there in front of your face.

a reply to: MasterBaiter

"Mechanical Turk' from amazon. When the site first came out I tried it out, didn't make much money but it confirmed my suspicion that the internet was rife with shilling.

Anyone looking to make a bot should check out 'Selenium'. It is pretty easy to make simple crawling bots with 'Crawler4J' and WebDriver too. I also set up a xmpp chat bot with Google's java toolkits too!

a reply to: Attentionwandered

Mechanical Turk' from amazon. When the site first came out I tried it out, didn't make much money but it confirmed my suspicion that the internet was rife with shilling.

Anyone looking to make a bot should check out 'Selenium'. It is pretty easy to make simple crawling bots with 'Crawler4J' and WebDriver too. I also set up a xmpp chat bot with Google's java toolkits too!

I can't tell if you're joking about the first thing, but as far as the bots, yeah...they are everywhere. My nerd brother was making them for gamers back in 2007 and I played WoW with lots of people who used them for questing, etc...and they were extremely efficient, too. And one of my friends had told me that most online customer service "reps" are actually bots...sure enough, I went online to check on something through one of our dealers for a customer a few weeks ago and it was obvious after a minute or two that I was not actually "talking" to a real person. I just think it's creepy...I've never felt at ease with the idea of humans being replaced with AI, for any reason, so the whole concept of that weirds me out.

originally posted by: schuyler
But the heart of the matter is this: When you see someone calling someone else a "shill," you know the accuser has no idea what he is talking about. He has absolutely no evidence whatsoever. It's a lazy fool's way out of dealing with the issues.

I am frequently accused of being a shill. Most likely because I support my contentions with links to credible websites.
This gem was from yesterday

I wonder whether you actually get paid for this, or you just have an inordinate amount of time to waste. As it is not my case, I will very happily put you and your "sodales" in my ignore list.

So I am getting paid to debunk this posters claims that the cultures of central and S America were all refugees from Atlantis. Who would pay for that, really?
As you said its a lazy way of ignoring the issues/facts presented, he simply couldn't imagine that his unsupported claims were untrue and as a result, hadn't done any real objective research and so was incompetent to defend his own arguments

It is sad these shills exist because I believe they have brought down the quality of much of the discussions here at ATS and I too firmly believe they are here. They are the ones that repeatedly show up on certain threads and won't go away after they've made their point so that others have a chance at a discussion. If I had anything to do with the administration of this site I would begin tracking members that seem to follow this behavior, or pay attention to ones they become alerted to, and when it becomes apparent (which I know it has with some), then ban them from the site. Get rid of the damn shills and bring ATS back to what it once was!

originally posted by: smurfy

Well, apart from, 'calling out' a shill being against t&c here, where's your rationale coming from? why generalise. Thing is, anybody can make things up, that includes actual shills or those that you speak of. So....?

So...? I don't see that as nullifying a single thing I said. It's...just....irrelevant.

And the rest of what has been said here....STILL....offers zero proof shills exist at all. We're talking PAID shills here, not just people with an agenda to support. All you've managed to show is that some people have a point of view and want to express it. You may call these "sock puppets" if you will, but you still have no evidence. Accusing me of "generalizing" is not an argument. As usual, these "Beware of the shill" threads offer nothing at all elucidating on the issue. It's just part of the paranoia and one of the many things that ensures ATS will remain a "cranky conspiracy site" to the rest of the world, kind of a place for the ignorant to blow off some steam.

a reply to: schuyler

So people that were actually paid to shill for pro-kremlin companies and admitted to doing so don't count as evidence to you? Ok then.

Internet Shills are real and you would need to be extremely naive to dismiss their existence on ATS. Nonetheless, member schuyler is correct that the label is often misused as an ad hominem attack to discredit the character of genuine members instead of debating their arguments.

Proving that somebody is a Shill is near impossible (plus calling somebody out as one can get you banned) so it's not plausible to ask for evidence in that sense. Anybody able to utilse their critical thinking skills can tell if somebody is likely to be a Shill or not.

You really have to ask yourselves why such threads appear so often. Basically you have to believe that some entity somewhere thinks the views expressed by people here are important enough to counter with "paid shills" who receive money in exchange for posting counter-arguments to the silliest conspiracies imaginable. If that were actually happening that would indicate that your (collectively) views warrant the attention. The idea is that if your views were not checked, the "truth" that you know and no one else does (an interesting sub-text on how that happens) would somehow escape and be revealed to the world, thus threatening the order and stability (or disorder and instability) thrust upon us by these mysterious Powers That Be.

But your views don't count much in the world. Most people seem to think that the kinds of conspiracies discussed here on ATS are fanciful results of overactive imaginations by people unable to discern truth from falsehood in the first place. People who believe Hillary is a reptilian or that contrails are actually secret chemicals being sprayed upon the populace are at best a curiosity of delusional thinking and at worst candidates for incarceration in a mental institution.

And that's kind of the crux of the matter. If you believe someone is put to stop you, then you must be very important, indeed. But you're not. No one cares what you think because you have proven time and time again how ineffectual you are. You are your own worst enemies. the stuff you come up with is laughable. What you say here is not important, but if you can be persuaded that somehow someone is trying to stop you, you can at least feel important. But no one is going to actually pay people in an attempt to dissuade you from whatever amazingly paranoid and delusional movie is playing inside your head.

You're just not worth it.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
yvid /yvid

Is the command for youtube videos.
With the brackets on the ends of course.
www.youtube.com...

Here is the link, that has a weird code at the end, not sure which to use.

If you use the "you tube" tab, on menu above the response text entry box, type in (or cut and paste) everything after the equals sign of the youtube video web address into the "you tube" entry slot.

That code works in the youtube entry slot.

originally posted by: Slickinfinity
I would make a great schill and could argue against anything lol. CIA !!! If ya cant beat em join em. I would be surprised if "they" were stupid enough to not use schills. If a radio transmission can cause panic (Orson Wells) then media of any kind sure as hell can influence the masses.

Bots could muckup a thread by placing a lot of boring posts so that many above average post get skipped over.

Orson Welles' War of the Worlds is like winning the lottery, disinfo wise.

a reply to: tigertatzen

The only place I heard the term shill before the internet was in a casino. Shills are players that are bankrolled by the house and they look like ordinary customers (gamblers).

They can make the games look more popular by just being there, or they can pull cards or place bets that screw up gambling system players who draw cards or place bets after them.

a reply to: Semicollegiate

a reply to: tigertatzen

The only place I heard the term shill before the internet was in a casino. Shills are players that are bankrolled by the house and they look like ordinary customers (gamblers).

They can make the games look more popular by just being there, or they can pull cards or place bets that screw up gambling system players who draw cards or place bets after them.

Yes, I went home and asked the housemate if he had ever heard the term, and he said yes but as far as he knew it was less like paid informers and more like people being paid to be "friends" with certain groups to promote them...like the accusations about campaigners fabricating Twitter accounts and such to make a candidate seem more popular than they are.

He said what my dad was talking about, his dad called "spin doctors" (he's a lot older, so he knows a lot of stuff that I don't, terms for things, etc. but my dad was 50 when I was born, so our fathers were of the same generation) or "turncoats"; they'd pretend to dump their candidate and join the other side for the sole purpose of gathering information and planting disinformation. But he said he never heard the term "shill" except in gambling, and he wasn't clear on what exactly their purpose is. Thank you, I feel a little more informed now.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

Internet Shills are real and you would need to be extremely naive to dismiss their existence on ATS. Nonetheless, member schuyler is correct that the label is often misused as an ad hominem attack to discredit the character of genuine members instead of debating their arguments.

Proving that somebody is a Shill is near impossible (plus calling somebody out as one can get you banned) so it's not plausible to ask for evidence in that sense. Anybody able to utilse their critical thinking skills can tell if somebody is likely to be a Shill or not.

I've seen numerous threads on numerous volatile topics where members have point-blank called another member a "shill" and their comments were not removed, nor were they banned. I actually had a member call me that in a thread, very recently, whilst discussing abortion issues, presumably because I declined to agree with him/her/it, despite all of his/her/its attempts at wearing me down.

It didn't even register with me really...just another term that I did not know the meaning of. I wouldn't have even known it was intended as an ad hominem attack...just assumed it was some strange lingo like so many other things on the internet. But I guess it's one of those things where people only get offended if they know they're supposed to get offended. Either way, my opinions are my own and I really don't give much of a damn if people don't like it.

I have, however, noticed certain people who behave very oddly in discussions, to the point where it is obvious that they are trying to either clog the thread so that people become disgusted and abandon it or are trying to instigate an escalation so that the thread gets closed. Paid? Displaced nerd rage? Boredom? Who knows, and really...who cares? But yes, they are most definitely doing this with a purpose and it is quite apparent to people who tend to notice little things like that.