Do women REALLY need Planned Parenthood?

a reply to: kellyjay

Your "tax dollars" aren't paying for anything in the U.S.

No American tax dollars go to abortion either.

Next?

originally posted by: kellyjay

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: kellyjay

Because PP was doing it! It's called market saturation. Why should a local clinic that probably operates on a shoestring budget dedicate valuable resources to testing for something that was ALREADY adequately covered by an organization that has a FAR larger budget?

well had the funding that those PP clinics were getting was rerouted to those clinics (which is the proposition in the bill put forward by the gop) then they could have picked up the slack.

How about just NOT punishing PP for manufactured crises involving 3% of the organization's services?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: kellyjay

I know what a strawman is. You are deflecting now. Your point in your OP is absurd. I've already answered why it is absurd and you are at this point just picking at small things to keep the argument going.

I asked a question in OP, and i put forth information to back up the stance at which i was coming from, the question i asked, is that if an investigation finds that PP have been breaking the law, should they be defunded

its a simple question

originally posted by: kellyjay

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: kellyjay

I know what a strawman is. You are deflecting now. Your point in your OP is absurd. I've already answered why it is absurd and you are at this point just picking at small things to keep the argument going.

I asked a question in OP, and i put forth information to back up the stance at which i was coming from, the question i asked, is that if an investigation finds that PP have been breaking the law, should they be defunded

its a simple question

How about THIS suggestion instead? Instead of defunding Planned Parenthood and creating a HUGE headache to account for the huge hole the absence of the organization will cause and just make it so that PP can't perform abortions anymore?

But that is ONLY if there is wrong doing discovered. Which there isn't.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: kellyjay

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: kellyjay

Because PP was doing it! It's called market saturation. Why should a local clinic that probably operates on a shoestring budget dedicate valuable resources to testing for something that was ALREADY adequately covered by an organization that has a FAR larger budget?

well had the funding that those PP clinics were getting was rerouted to those clinics (which is the proposition in the bill put forward by the gop) then they could have picked up the slack.

How about just NOT punishing PP for manufactured crises involving 3% of the organization's services?

lol @ 3%

The group performs about 330,000 abortions a year, or roughly 30 percent of all the abortions in the country. By its own accounting in its 2013-2014 annual report, it provides about as many abortions as Pap tests (380,000). The group does more breast exams and provides more breast-care services (490,000), but not by that much.
The 3 percent figure is derived by counting abortion as just another service like much less consequential services.
So abortion is considered a service no different than a pregnancy test (1.1 million), even though a box with two pregnancy tests can be procured from the local drugstore for less than $10.

nypost.com...

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: kellyjay

Your "tax dollars" aren't paying for anything in the U.S.

No American tax dollars go to abortion either.

Next?[/quote

my taxes may not in the US but they do here in the UK....unless of course you are suggesting i dont have the right to speak about current events?

a reply to: kellyjay

Irrelevant to the topic at hand. The issue is about defunding PP. PP doesn't use tax money for abortion therefore defunding it will hurt all their other services.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: kellyjay

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: kellyjay

I know what a strawman is. You are deflecting now. Your point in your OP is absurd. I've already answered why it is absurd and you are at this point just picking at small things to keep the argument going.

I asked a question in OP, and i put forth information to back up the stance at which i was coming from, the question i asked, is that if an investigation finds that PP have been breaking the law, should they be defunded

its a simple question

How about THIS suggestion instead? Instead of defunding Planned Parenthood and creating a HUGE headache to account for the huge hole the absence of the organization will cause and just make it so that PP can't perform abortions anymore?

But that is ONLY if there is wrong doing discovered. Which there isn't.

i would agree thats a viable option

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: kellyjay

Irrelevant to the topic at hand. The issue is about defunding PP. PP doesn't use tax money for abortion therefore defunding it will hurt all their other services.

you were the one who brought up the 3% lie that the left is perpetuating....i debunkd it

next

do these other providers also take donations? just asking here, since well, although you say they are all over the place, I really don't see that many in my area outside of the county health department which I imagine are funded by through county taxes. Maybe you are talking about the free health clinic that is in my area, I do think they take donations but by what I read of their qualifications, I wouldn't be accepted for care since I am not working. so, well they aren't as inclusive as planned parenthood is. and then there's the "charity" care that most of the medical providers offer, I think that they might be funded partially by donations, but well, the left me out in the cold when I was searching high and low for a surgeon to set my leg and we didn't have thousands of dollars to put down as a down payment....
so, well, just what are these providers you are claiming are out there, I've asked several times, but haven't gotten an answer.

if you are talking about mainly the country health clinics, I am sorry, but you are talking about defunding a major provider of services that take in alot of money through donations for these services and dropping their clients off on the taxpayers, thank you so much!!! and this is coming from the party that wants small governments, with small budgets, who claim that "charity" can fill the needs of the poor!!!

just give me the names of those providers in your area. websites would be nice also, if you can find them.

a reply to: kellyjay

so who's doing the 70%?
are you sure they don't have their own little arrangements with the stem cell groups also????

originally posted by: kellyjay

agreed, personally im pro choice, i dont like abortion, but i recognise that a woman has a right to choose....which is why abortion is legal, and that's where the support from me ends.

I dont however think that tax payers should foot the bill, i think if you want an abortion you should pay for it ,wether it be through insurance coverage or cash, i'm not a christian but i can see their point in why they don't want to fund abortion, and i think its up to the government to make it more fair for those who are against it.

fine keep it legal, but don't force those who are against it to pay for it..pay for it yourself.

Federal law prohibits public funding from being used for abortion already. Planned parenthood is not using any tax payer funds to finance abortions.

The disinformation circulating is simply heinous.

But Planned Parenthood cannot use the money it receives from the federal government for abortions anyway. According to the Department of Health and Human Service’s website, "by law, Title X funds may not be used in programs where abortion is a method of family planning." Medicaid funding is restricted by the Hyde Amendment to only abortion cases involving rape, incest or endangerment to the life of the mother. Some states use their own funds under Medicaid to go beyond that. Seventeen states and, until recently, the District of Columbia pay for "medically necessary" abortions, according to the Guttmacher Institute. The federal budget deal now bans Washington, D.C., from using its funds to pay for abortions.

Source

a reply to: kellyjay

if an investigation shows that they have been acting outwith the boundarys of the law, should they be defunded?

Although I haven't seen anything as of yet that would make me think that PP has broken the law....no, I don't think it should be defunded. It provides women lower cost options for reproductive services than private clinics.

By your logic...the US Military should be defunded, the CIA, NSA, FBI.....the list goes on and on. All have broken the law...many multiples of times. If that was the metric by which you defunded agencies....well the US Gov would be tiny indeed.

originally posted by: dawnstar
do these other providers also take donations? just asking here, since well, although you say they are all over the place, I really don't see that many in my area outside of the county health department which I imagine are funded by through county taxes. Maybe you are talking about the free health clinic that is in my area, I do think they take donations but by what I read of their qualifications, I wouldn't be accepted for care since I am not working. so, well they aren't as inclusive as planned parenthood is. and then there's the "charity" care that most of the medical providers offer, I think that they might be funded partially by donations, but well, the left me out in the cold when I was searching high and low for a surgeon to set my leg and we didn't have thousands of dollars to put down as a down payment....
so, well, just what are these providers you are claiming are out there, I've asked several times, but haven't gotten an answer.

if you are talking about mainly the country health clinics, I am sorry, but you are talking about defunding a major provider of services that take in alot of money through donations for these services and dropping their clients off on the taxpayers, thank you so much!!! and this is coming from the party that wants small governments, with small budgets, who claim that "charity" can fill the needs of the poor!!!

just give me the names of those providers in your area. websites would be nice also, if you can find them.

Is obamacare not working for people in the US?

i live in the uk so i cant give you providers names sorry

a reply to: kellyjay leave politics out of it stop using the planned parenthood hysteria as a political tool. It's weird and uncalled for as politics should have no place in any debate in abortion

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
a reply to: kellyjay leave politics out of it stop using the planned parenthood hysteria as a political tool. It's weird and uncalled for as politics should have no place in any debate in abortion

well it kinda is a political issue when its the GOP looking to defund it....so you cant really have this discussion when defunding PP will be through the government.

a reply to: kellyjay


3% of the ACTIVITY at PP deals with abortion - 97% of their services are NOT dealing with abortion. The 3% statistics is not meant to indicate the percentage of abortions as a whole that PP provides.

Fact Check - Planned Parenthood Stats

Graph of Services at PP. 11.4 million services total.

Ok use it as a political tool to bash the left

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
a reply to: kellyjay leave politics out of it stop using the planned parenthood hysteria as a political tool. It's weird and uncalled for as politics should have no place in any debate in abortion

That's the first fallacy I noticed in this thread from the OP.

There are a few others as well.


I'm just waiting for Margaret Sagner & Godwin's Law to arise and then it's pretty much a full house.




OP:
You didn't answer Lucidity's question...

If 695/700 haven't broken the law, why defund them?

Bearing in mind this is about PP defunding and not abortion, nice little appeal to emotion you slipped in there...
And given that funding doesn't pay for abortion, so abortion is moot and your fallacy irrelevant...
Would they still need to be completely defunded?

Or just shut down the 5/700 that broke the law?

originally posted by: kellyjay

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
a reply to: kellyjay leave politics out of it stop using the planned parenthood hysteria as a political tool. It's weird and uncalled for as politics should have no place in any debate in abortion

well it kinda is a political issue when its the GOP looking to defund it....so you cant really have this discussion when defunding PP will be through the government.

The GOP bill is based on morals not politic...

You're as bad as the leftists that make this about religion with that argument.