Baby’s lives matter: Journalist questions abortion after PP videos

a reply to: Danke

Well get some intellectual integrity then, because you aren't demonstrating it to me. Seriously? LOBBYING?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Chrisfishenstein

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Chrisfishenstein

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Danke

Are you ever going to admit that PP isn't a government organization? Or are you intent on nitpicking every little detail to avoid admitting that you may have been wrong about something?

I will say they aren't government but sure have a lot of government hands involved in this.....Take that for what it is worth

Yea well so do a good portion of the organizations in this country. It's not like PP is alone in that regard.

I absolutely didn't say they were, just replying to your question about it.....$600 million plus facebook money (like he isn't part of the government) $900 million....That sure is a lot of money for fiscal year 2014 brother.....Show me other companies that get that much from the government that ISN'T government.....Honestly

I'm not even sure where you are going with this argument to be honest. I really don't care about PP's source of income. I just know that PP isn't a government organization no matter what flimsy reasoning you want to present to me.

So I said 2 different places (government and facebook/government) donated 900 million and 600 million dollars and that doesn't ring that it may involve the government a little more than you originally thought? I asked for ANY example of the government donating that kind of money to other companies that also are NON government businesses....Pretty please?

a reply to: Chrisfishenstein

No! Screw this discussion. I'm not even sure how what we are talking about is even RELEVANT to the allegations involving PP or CMP. This whole conversation appears to just be some weird red herring where you want to try to get me to admit that JUST because PP receives government money or lobbies the government that they are evil. Not to mention your weird fascination with Zuckerburg.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I never specifically said PP lobbies did I? I was pointing out how entwined both the government and the private sector is these days.

Can you name another organizations that is NOT part of the government that receives MORE than 41% of their funding from the government?

This conversation is going off the rails because you keep putting words in my mouth.

I am pro choice. I am not for defunding planned parenthood. I am trying to help both sides come together because if someone like me trying to be the middle man can't even have a basic discussion with someone like you, how do you expect opposite ends of the spectrum to work together?

You are pushing someone like me who is actually on your side to lean more towards the middle every day on issues like this.

originally posted by: Danke
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I never specifically said PP lobbies did I? I was pointing out how entwined both the government and the private sector is these days.

Can you name other organizations that are NOT part of the government that receive MORE than 41% of their funding from the government?

Why? What purpose does that information serve in regards to the scope of our conversation?

This conversation is going off the rails because you keep putting words in my mouth.

I am pro choice. I am not for defunding planned parenthood. I am trying to help both sides come together because if someone like me in the middle can't even have a basic discussion with someone like you, how do you expect opposite ends of the spectrum to work together?

Oh sorry, I would have thought someone that was truly in the middle would be a little less biased against PP. My bad for assuming such silliness. Heck I would have thought that someone in the middle would be willing to discuss the other organization's activities in filming the videos and their possible shadiness that should make someone question their intentions. But nope, all we are focusing on is PP. Man how silly of me for not seeing your neutral position.

You are pushing someone like me who is actually on your side to lean more towards the middle every day on issues like this.

Demonstrate some intellectual integrity first, then maybe I'll care. Start tearing into CMP like you are trying to tear into PP and then I'll believe your claims about being in the middle. Really, all I see when someone only wants to discuss PP is someone starting off with the premise that those videos are credible enough to warrant suspicion on PP, but at no point does anyone want to discuss where the credibility for those videos even CAME from.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I didn't know this thread was about CMP? I coulda sworn this threads title has PP in it...

Attacking my intellectual integrity and honesty doesn't help your cause.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: kellyjay

So no proof of selling fetuses for profit then?

Fine.

Your link is to a Bill referred to committee.

Where's the info on the investigation again?

I have a question for you- When you you think life begins?

originally posted by: Danke

I am pro choice. I am not for defunding planned parenthood.

Then what is it exactly that you are against? Tissue donation for research purposes?

a reply to: kaylaluv

I was just simply trying to bring up the problem with the little to no oversight or regulations involved with the distribution of baby body parts/fetuses/fetal tissue whatever you want to call it.

I don't like the idea that people are haggling over prices. There is no need for it. I don't care whether these people are saints or not, or whether these videos are edited to portray a certain viewpoint. These videos just opened up the conversation, and I don't see why anyone would be opposed to making sure nothing nefarious was taking place.

Once I started getting attacked for those comments, it progressed into me having to defend myself for things I didn't say, and it got completely off track.

a reply to: Danke

So, you are okay with tissue donation. I assume you are okay with any out-of-pocket costs being recouped? I have no problem with an investigation into Planned Parenthood's tissue donation procedures. For the most part, the "haggling" in the video was done by the CMP people. They kept trying to go UP on the offer, instead of trying to get the cost lower (which is a little weird, don't you think?).

I also have no problem with specific legislation that says the costs to be recouped can't be more than xx dollars per specimen, to ensure no profit is being made. But bio-research experts are saying that the dollar figures discussed in the videos could not possibly involve any kind of profit for Planned Parenthood, but instead, probably mean a loss.

a reply to: newWorldSamurai

According to Monty Python ("The Meaning of Life") it begins with either an egg or a sperm cell: "Every Sperm is Sacred." I think that is somewhat far-fetched. So, how much farther along to you believe life begins?

a reply to: kaylaluv

I am perfectly fine with those things. Obviously the people in these videos had an agenda, and the videos were edited to make it seem much worse than it was.

I am more concerned with the process that goes on once the specimen is out of PP's hands to be honest with you. Why not have regulations in place to make sure nothing nefarious goes on? We have regulations for EVERYTHING, yet for some reason this seems to go under the radar due to the political debate.

originally posted by: Danke

I am more concerned with the process that goes on once the specimen is out of PP's hands to be honest with you. Why not have regulations in place to make sure nothing nefarious goes on? We have regulations for EVERYTHING, yet for some reason this seems to go under the radar due to the political debate.

Well, that discussion is for another thread.

a reply to: kaylaluv

That doesn't mean I am not concerned with PP or who they deal with. The whole things needs to be regulated.

originally posted by: Lazarusman04
a reply to: newWorldSamurai

According to Monty Python ("The Meaning of Life") it begins with either an egg or a sperm cell: "Every Sperm is Sacred." I think that is somewhat far-fetched. So, how much farther along to you believe life begins?

Ha. Yes, we can learn a lot from Monty Python.

I think that question is the crux of this entire argument, and it is an argument at this point. Some are disgusted with PP for the practice of repurposing fetal tissue (legally or illegally) because they believe it's a life. It doesn't matter if they're making money on it or not. While others see no issue with it (as long as no laws are broken) because it's not deemed to be a life with the protections that provides.

I understand the argument that fetuses develop differently and it's difficult if not impossible to always determine exactly what stage of development a fetus is at at any given moment. And given that, the most conservative decision would be to class any fertilized egg as a life, regardless of its stage of development.

On the other hand, I understand how others don't have a problem with the morning after pill.

My short answer is, I don't really know when it's a life; but 20+ weeks (heartbeat and nervous system) is pushing it in my opinion. What do you say?

a reply to: newWorldSamurai

Thanks, Samurai. My gut feeling would probably be looked on askance: "Out of sight, out of mind." Before ultrasound and other technological advances, the fetus would BE whatever the mother perceived it to be at the time she decided whether to abort or carry to term. She might think of it as something blessed or fearsome, potentially a boon to mankind or a dreaded monster, but the reality would never be known until the fetus became a human being at birth, and would never be known if she decided it was never to be born. I think things were better then; who more qualified and capable to decide whether the fetus would ever see the light of day than the mother, who after all, carried it inside as part of herself? Abort at two weeks or two days until term, or 28-23-20-16- weeks, or all the way back to embryo or even zygote stage at conception ---- It should be her decision and hers alone (with some advice from her physician). Its (the fetus's) absence would be simply a disappearance, with no necessity for guilt or pondering what or who it might have been. And then go on. Lawyers, Doctors, Legislators, Scientists, Priests, Shamans, Neighborhood Wags, Gossips be damned; it should be a mother's decision to abort or not, right up until the birth. Then she should take responsibility for bringing a new human being into the world and go on from there. You asked, I'm just sayin' ....

a reply to: blondegiraffe

At a young age I encountered the most amazing being. She lacked part of a leg and her hands where deformed. She could barely get around on the ground with out support from clumsy crutches. (thalidomide)

We were both equestrians, (horse handlers/riders).
With and on a horse she was my master, and I was good, she could handle any horse. In a saddle she was the picture of beauty and elegance. And she could tackle them herself, she had no fear and skill beyond the rest of us.

Perhaps she is just one out of a million but she was damn brilliant in mind and body. She changed me.

Sorry OP I am off topic. I just had to give this account.

originally posted by: Willtell
I Don’t Know If I’m Pro-Choice After Planned Parenthood Videos

Has anyone here changed their opinion on abortion since the PP videos were shown?



I, like this writer ( is now since the PP videos) am ambivalent and always have been though these videos are disturbing to say the least.


This journalist who I don’t know much about is apparently soul searching his support for abortion since the PP videos.


Abortion is something I never wanted to get too close to being a male but perhaps something should be done about this, I don’t know.

The only thing I hate more than talking about abortion is writing about it. It’s no accident that, in 2000 columns over a quarter century, I have never—ever—written about abortion. I’ve avoided the topic like a root canal.
But that is getting harder to do with the release of what are now five gruesome,albeit edited, undercover videos by The Center for Medical Progress depicting doctors and other top officials of Planned Parenthood discussing, and even laughing about, the harvesting of baby organs, as casually as some folks talk about the weather.
It’s jarring to see doctors acting as negotiators as they dicker over the price of a fetal liver, heart, or brain, and then talk about how they meticulously go to the trouble of not crushing the most valuable body parts. This practice is perfectly legal, and for some people, it is just a business. With millions of abortions each year in America, business is good.
Who could forget Dr. Mary Gatter, Council President of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America’s Medical Directors, when, in Video #2, she tells undercover investigators that it isn’t about the money—before she zeroes in on dollars and cents?
“Let me just figure out what others are getting, and if this is in the ballpark, then it’s fine,” Gatter said. “If it’s still low, then we can bump it up.”
Then, going for broke, she added: “I want a Lamborghini.”
I want a shower.

This poor guy's wife is pro life and getting in his case

At least that’s how my wife sees it. She’s pro-life, and so she’s been tearing into me every time a new video is released. She’s not buying my argument that, as a man, I have to defer to women and trust them to make their own choices about what to do with their bodies. To her, that’s ridiculous—and cowardly.

Difficult issue...we all need more information maybe.

But I do know this: Baby’s lives matter too!

5.4.2022 Food for Thought

Re: www.politico.com...

Democrats are really angry that fewer babies will be murdered. Is this because:

1.) There will be fewer body parts for sale by Planned Parenthood

2.) There will be fewer body parts available for research and sick things?

3.) An increase in the number of Black people, since 1 in every 4 abortions are Black mothers?

Source: www.kff.org...

4.) Something else? What?

-cwm

originally posted by: Chrisfishenstein
a reply to: Willtell

Sorry but I am 100% confident here that baby matters in some way....No matter the case! There are adoption agencies that will gladly accept your little angel if you can't/won't take care of it....No need to terminate, there is a reason for us all!

May 18, 2022

I'm glad Satan-controlled Michigan judges like this were rare in the early 1960's, or I might not be here.

A Michigan judge with reported ties to pro-abortion efforts has suspended the state's dormant, decades-old ban on abortion, which means the procedure would not be illegal in the state even if the Supreme Court overturns its 1973 Roe v. Wade decision that gives women the constitution right to an abortion.

Court of Claims Chief Judge Elizabeth Gleicher has previously admitted to supporting abortion rights and has donates annually to Planned Parenthood, according to the Daily Wire.

Source: justthenews.com...