Two Musical Computer Questions

I have not been able to come up with the answers to these questions:

1. Is there an on line metronome that will play at more than 600 BPM? (metronomer.com goes up to but not over 600 BPM.)

2. Is there a freeware video player besides the UM player that allows one the ability to speed up or slow down the rate of playback.

Currently to get speeds above 600 BPM I have been downloading files at various speeds from metronomer.com and then using the UM player (after doing arithmetical calculations and the controls of the UM player) to get the desired speed of playback of the metronomer file, in increments, above 600 BPM.

I know that any metronome, practically, can be used to get any speed, practically, if one only adjusts the way one counts the beats. For my purposes, this will not do. I want to hear every beat at speeds over 600 BPM.

I can do this with the UM player but it is a little awkward in the way it implements increases in speeds and I would like to know if there is an alternative to it.

All help is appreciated, as always.

a reply to: ipsedixit

Intriguing thread...may I ask why you need that many? I don't have an answer for you but I suppose you could make your own metronome track perhaps using something like 1/8 notes at whatever tempo...then making another track of 1/8 notes but shift it between the others...etc. Basically what im saying is to manually make it. I may even be able to do it for you if you give the exact tempo you need.

Along the same lines as rockpaperhammock's suggestion, you could create your own click track.

Play the metronome at an acceptable fraction of the final BBM you want, and then record clicks (whatever sounds you want/are capable of producing for this purpose) at whatever speed you want over that. If you want something faster than you can play precisely, multitrack several click tracks that work together to create the BPM you want. Or you could even produce a whole drum track if that's compatible with what you're playing over it.

Sorry I can't be more help with the specific app you want. Hopefully someone else can. Good luck. Peace.

I just checked all my software that I use...nothing goes above 300 bpm....I find this thread interesting for some reason haha...ill keep looking around.

Thanks, AceWombat04 and rockpaperhammock. I think that creating a click track might be a way to go. I could do that at noteflight.com by creating a few bars of music at a high tempo and putting in repeats.

Thanks. I should have thought of that, but I was stuck in another rut. ATS members come through again.

originally posted by: rockpaperhammock
a reply to: ipsedixit

Intriguing thread...may I ask why you need that many?

I am trying to increase my guitar picking speed and I find that it helps if I can hear every pick stroke on the metronome. Counting is, of course, very important, but for what I am doing at the moment I need to concentrate on increasing brute speed by syncing with the metronome by ear.

I just checked Ableton Live; its metronome goes up to a ripping 999 bpm.
Ableton is a whole lot of power to have, just to use the metronome!

But it sounded super tight and ripping at speeds of 600-700 bpm; it would probably be apt for your situation.

The Lite version may be free, and would allow you to play the metronome, but i think not export the audio.


I found a 30 day free trial of their heavy duty Suite, which I think may allow you to export the metronome speeds you need to audio.
www.ableton.com...

In 30 days, nay, 30 minutes, you could probably export all the speeds of metronome you seek.

a reply to: ipsedixit

600 BPM is 10Hz.

Roughly, half the frequency of the lowest sound we can discern.

I don't think that it would be humanly possible to 'keep time' musically with something that fast.

You could try counting it (count of 10) using a one second metronome click but it would be pushing human limits. If it is faster than you can think, it is probably faster than you can move.

a reply to: chr0naut

Sounds like balls if you ask me, but there are peeps out there that can do it.


I've no idea how it's possible, it sounds dreadful but I'm sure they have happy partners I guess?

a reply to: Qumulys

"No matter how good you are, there's always some one better"

a reply to: Iamnotadoctor

Yeah, I saw that one, but it had a lousy thumbs up/down ratio and comments disabled, which usually suggest something is amiss. I couldn't see, to be honest what was wrong, but it could be many things. The video quality is dreadful, as is the audio quality. How can we verify the BPMs? This really needs to be done under scientific settings, with a slow-mo camera to make sure he's playing 21 notes a second, and not using hammer-ons and pull-offs.

Muking about with my fingers, I can play an imaginary piano starting from my thumb-index-middle-ring-little finger and back again just tapping on a table. I'm guesstimating my old slow fingers are doing about 12-13 taps in a second.

a reply to: Qumulys

Fast, but is it music?

Sounds like old 8 bit arcade game sound.

Seriously, though, I'm very impressed (although a bit skeptical).

a reply to: chr0naut

As others have pointed out, people can get up to amazing speeds on the guitar. I can pick at just over 600 BPM (absolute pick strokes) when I am fretting just one note. It is possible for even an older person (I am 66) to get to those levels by diligent practice with a metronome.

The real problem is training the fretting hand and fingers to articulate music, or even scales at that speed. That takes a lot of practice and a lot of thought.

You have to think differently about what you are doing and as you get faster, you have to subtly alter your perception of what you are doing. Changing strings at 150 BPM is not the same as changing strings at 600 BPM. At those elevated speeds, I don't even think about the strings, except as pertains to the fretting hand. To the picking hand the fretboard is like a piece of wood with lines (the strings) drawn on it. It's hard to explain.

Some fan in Japan asked Yngwie Malmsteen, "How do you do that?"

His reply, "I dunno." I think he knows but the answer is too complicated to explain.

The world record holder demonstrates the diminishing rate of musical returns as the tempo increases. I don't know what the upper metronome limit is for music that is pleasing to the ear, but I suspect that it is somewhere between 600 and 700 BPM. Above that, pitch starts to become more of a raspy texture. No individual note is around long enough to make an impression and the ensemble starts to resemble the auditory equivalent of a pointillist painting.

a reply to: chr0naut

By definition of playing notes on a musical instrument it has to be classed as 'music'.
As something you can listen to and enjoy, for me it isn't particularly enjoyable when it goes beyond the 200bpm sort of speed.
To the guys who attempt this stuff it becomes about the challenge of gaining the technique, and how determined they are at practising, similar to a sport.
I've played guitar for about 20 years and I haven't thought about doing this sort of thing, it is jaw dropping just to see someone do it even at the 250bpm or lower speed though!

a reply to: ecapsretuo

Thanks for the link to Ableton Live, but I found that I can create a click track that will do what I want to do at noteflight.com.

a reply to: chr0naut

Don't worry, I agree it sounds like a room full of twenty guitarists all soloing in the same room at once. I've never understood where much of the musicality lies with extreme fast picking, perhaps I'm just jaded cause I can't hold a pick so I play with fingers only.

There's some quote somewhere that goes something along the lines of;-
David Gilmore puts more feeling into one note than Yngwie Malmsteen can manage with 6000.

shots fired :p

(take note ipsedixit, I'd probably not be throwing poo at Yngwie if I could hold a pick! )

originally posted by: Qumulys
a reply to: chr0naut
There's some quote somewhere that goes something along the lines of;-
David Gilmore puts more feeling into one note than Yngwie Malmsteen can manage with 6000.

I totally agree with that quote.
A brilliant example of that would be Gilmour's 4 note 'motif' that leads into the drums and band kicking in on 'Shine on you crazy Diamond'.
Or the first few bars of his first solo in 'Comfortably numb'.
While we're on Pink Floyd/Gilmour, Rick Wright's super simple one note 'ping' at the start of 'Echoes' gives me goosebumps everytime I hear it!

originally posted by: Qumulys
. . . perhaps I'm just jaded cause I can't hold a pick so I play with fingers only.

. . .

(take note ipsedixit, I'd probably not be throwing poo at Yngwie if I could hold a pick!

)

Sandpaper.

When I started to learn how to pick "like Yngwie", I couldn't stop the pick from sliding around in my fingers so, after much experiment with different picks and different ways of holding the pick, I roughened the sides of the pick with sandpaper and now hold on to it with three fingers (thumb, index and middle).

But you are right. It's an issue. One of many.

a reply to: Iamnotadoctor

I'm right there with you Masters of their instruments and sound.


a reply to: ipsedixit

I've tried sandpaper! I've even experimented using heaps of different home made ideas. The best one I could do was a pick where I had glued two 5mm rubber pads on each side of the pick in the grip zones. It sort of helped but my main problem is having the strength in my thumb holding against my others fingers. (It's a combination of a neurological condition I have which affects my hands and also arthritis is creeping in making holding things a struggle).

When I could kind of hold my modified one, I found an instant lack of my ability to alter the tone in a musical way. But using fingers to pluck I can transfer what I 'feel' into each note and alter the tone. So I gave up on the pursuit of speed and settle for some slow blues stuff

As the bluesmen say, "I'm built for comfort, I ain't built for speed".


BTW, you obviously can get feeling into pick playing as many masters prove, I just couldn't pull it off And congrats on 600BPM's at your age that's very impressive! (You sure it's not parkinson's? )

a reply to: Qumulys

I used to play with my fingers, myself. I was never as good as Julian Bream but I realized that fantastic things can be done that way and have been done that way. I just got a bee in my bonnet about the speed picking and wanted to add it to my toolkit.

(Sometimes it feels like induced Parkinson"s)

I don't know how far I'll take it, or even if I will get to the point of being able to play significantly at elevated tempos. For me it is just a challenge. Trying to do it has really taught me a lot. I have been up against what appeared to be solid brick walls three or four times in this process, but each time I was able to devise a way past the obstacles.

I haven't given up yet.

Here's a guy who knows what he is doing. He uses a pick, but shows that older people can still have what it takes. If I could play like Tony McKenzie, www.youtube.com... I would drop the speed picking thing and concentrate on making great music.