Tom Brady Vs. the NFL

originally posted by: blondegiraffe
a reply to: bbracken677

i agree! i also think, since we can't be sure how long they have been cheating for, they should be stripped of the superbowl wins they have gotten under brady, because who knows? he could have been cheating like this since college and just never gotten caught. he thought that destroying his phone would get him out of trouble, but they did pull the phone records, and obviously they found some corroborating evidence or he wouldn't be in trouble for it.

Flat out lie. Goodell was given everything he asked for, and refused to look at it. It's been clear since day 1 this was a witch hunt.

Aaron Rodgers admits he does this every game. Several teams were busted doing this.

The Patriots were not caught in the act (2 teams were), there is literally zero evidence Brady was doing anything (Aaron Rodgers admitted he does it), and Brady gave Goodell every single thing he asked for and there was nothing in it. The texts being used to crucify Brady say the NFL was tampering with the Patriots' balls and it was not until the NFL started tampering with their balls that the Patriots did anything.

The Patriots jealousy is disgusting.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

First of all, that whole article was about Brady's statement. Brady said this, Brady said that.

It does not say he turned over texts... he turned over emails and "phone records"

I have one question Occam: Are you a Pat's fan? A Brady fanboy?

That article is not evidence...it is hearsay at best centering around a statement Brady made. Period.

originally posted by: bbracken677
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

First of all, that whole article was about Brady's statement. Brady said this, Brady said that.

It does not say he turned over texts... he turned over emails and "phone records"

I have one question Occam: Are you a Pat's fan? A Brady fanboy?

That article is not evidence...it is hearsay at best centering around a statement Brady made. Period.

The article states the official report by Goodell acknowledges it. Why do you keep lying? Where do you think text messages are? In the phone records. The lies of you people are disgusting. It's not Brady saying it, Goodell himself admits it in the report.

Mr. Brady’s certified agents offered to provide a spreadsheet that would identify all of the individuals with whom Mr. Brady had exchanged text messages during [the relevant time] period; the agents suggested that the League could contact those individuals and request production of any relevant text messages that they retained.

His agents also said that the league could attempt to get the actual text messages from the phones of the people with whom Brady communicated, but the league refused to attempt to try, claiming that it would be too hard to track down the various people and to persuade them to cooperate.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...

Brady gave them EVERYTHING, direct from the phone company so that nothing could possibly be hidden. Goodell said 'it's too much work to look through it and see if you did anything wrong so we are just going to suspend you'.

We have a situation where Brady said anything you want you can have, direct from the phone company so I can't tamper with it, and Goodell refused. You people and your jealousy/hatred is disgusting.

From the discussion with the Judge.

Judge
Berman: I’m trying to figure out what is the direct evidence that implicates Mr. Brady in that deflation…in that bathroom…on Jan. 18

NFL
Nash: "Is there a text in which Mr. Brady instructs someone to put a needle in a football? No there is not such direct evidence."

Brady is just the latest Lance Armstrong. Common sense shows clearly his intent was to hide the truth or perpetuate a lie and common sense shows the lie is in regards to his instructions and ongoing conversation for ball deflation. His only valid argument is whether or not he can be held contractually to oblige for his behavior when the evidence might not be up to contractual legal standards.

If Brady was a good moral man he would of had his phone wiped and recycled after he satisfied the NFL's wishes.

Sure he has no legal obligation to turn over his device, but if he was innocent he wouldn't of hired somebody to destroy it when he knew it was relevant to the investigation.

It is those like Brady that teach children that lying and cheating pays if you are smart enough to conceal the truth. In that way Brady significantly damages our world and precisely why he should be banned.

originally posted by: verylowfrequency
Brady is just the latest Lance Armstrong. Common sense shows clearly his intent was to hide the truth or perpetuate a lie and common sense shows the lie is in regards to his instructions and ongoing conversation for ball deflation. His only valid argument is whether or not he can be held contractually to oblige for his behavior when the evidence might not be up to contractual legal standards.

If Brady was a good moral man he would of had his phone wiped and recycled after he satisfied the NFL's wishes.

Sure he has no legal obligation to turn over his device, but if he was innocent he wouldn't of hired somebody to destroy it when he knew it was relevant to the investigation.

It is those like Brady that teach children that lying and cheating pays if you are smart enough to conceal the truth. In that way Brady significantly damages our world and precisely why he should be banned.

The level of ignorance is astounding. The NFL was given everything they asked for. The NFL has admitted there is ZERO evidence against Brady.

Last week Judge Berman openly wondered why the NFL would conclude that Brady played some role in deflating footballs when there is no direct evidence of Brady’s involvement

Nash(NFL): "Is there a text in which Mr. Brady instructs someone to put a needle in a football? No there is not such direct evidence."

nesn.com...

The NFL basically railroaded Brady, and made sure any evidence that benefited him was not given to him.

Published reports of Judge Berman’s remarks on Wednesday reveal a judge deeply perplexed by the NFL’s system of justice. Most notably, Judge Berman sharply questioned why the NFL refused to let Brady’s legal team ask questions of NFL general counsel Jeffrey Pash during Brady’s appeal on June 23. Remember, Pash edited the so-called “independent” report authored by attorney Ted Wells, whom the NFL had hired to investigate the Deflategate controversy. Pash’s role in the Wells Report—the key source of information used by Goodell to punish Brady—made Pash a potentially crucial witness in Brady’s appeal. Judge Berman went so far as to warn the NFL that an arbitration award can be vacated if a key witness was made unavailable in an arbitration hearing.

www.si.com...

originally posted by: verylowfrequency
If Brady was a good moral man he would of had his phone wiped and recycled after he satisfied the NFL's wishes.

Why? Since when is the NFL front office, the same front office which lied about knowledge of Ray Rice knocking the crap out of his fiance, trumped up charges over "Bountygate," tried like hell to squelch the concussion issue, and flat out dropped the ball during the referee lockout any sort of paragon of authority where morality is concerned? Brady has ZERO moral obligation to the NFL outside of what is in his contract and the CBA, neither of which offer the NFL any authority to demand possession of his smart phone, PDA, or other electronic device.

Brady is clean here. He got jacked by the league because he made Goodell look like the horse's ass that he is and Lil' Rodgey don't like that.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

In my opinion this is about two things. One is Kraft has a lot of influence. Two is that the Patriots are simply too good.

This hurts Krafts standing, and will tarnish the Patriots and the fines/loss of picks will weaken them.

The ONLY ball that was significantly altered was the one that the Colts (who had been working with Goodell to catch the Patriots) admittedly tampered with. That means any reading of that ball is meaningless, and the Colts' player who intercepted the ball publicly stated the ball felt fine to him.

This is a hit piece, orchestrated by the NFL, as clear as it gets. The Wells report has been destroyed.

Goodell now says Wells report not impartial..but it doesn't matter...meaning he was lying before

twitter.com...

In its brief, the NFL correctly stresses that Article 46 of the collective bargaining agreement lacks any language that compels an “independent” investigation. Therefore, the NFL reasons, the league had no legal obligation to provide Brady with an independent investigation.

www.si.com...

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

What makes no sense to me is why Kraft? Kraft does have a lot of influence, but prior to him recently holding a "screw the National Football League" press conference, nobody defended the shield as strongly as Bob Kraft. They stuck a knife in the back of their most loyal owner as far as I am concerned.

As to the Pats just being "too good," I definitely think forced parity plays a role here. The Pats are by far the least worsened team under the league's parity efforts. The league has tried, but that damn Belichik meets the challenge everytime and the Patriots keep winning. As I've said, I'm not a Patriot fan or hater... I'm fairly neutral on them because my Broncos have always played them fairly even. If I was a Patriot fan, I think I'd boycott the NFL for awhile.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

What makes no sense to me is why Kraft? Kraft does have a lot of influence, but prior to him recently holding a "screw the National Football League" press conference, nobody defended the shield as strongly as Bob Kraft. They stuck a knife in the back of their most loyal owner as far as I am concerned.

Because Goodell can't stand anyone having as much or more influence than he does. Kind of a 'I'd rather the kingdom burn if I can't rule it' sort of deal.

As to the Pats just being "too good," I definitely think forced parity plays a role here. The Pats are by far the least worsened team under the league's parity efforts. The league has tried, but that damn Belichik meets the challenge everytime and the Patriots keep winning. As I've said, I'm not a Patriot fan or hater... I'm fairly neutral on them because my Broncos have always played them fairly even. If I was a Patriot fan, I think I'd boycott the NFL for awhile.

Exactly, a lot of effort has gone into making the NFL 'fair', so that no one team dominates. Belichick gets around the salary cap by just letting go of guys who want too much money and picking up no name guys no one has heard of or wants and turning them into stars. Tom Brady (that crazy immoral guy) demanded a pay cut so the team would have more free money to spend on other players to benefit the team.

Goodell has flat out said it doesn't matter that Brady and the Patriots did not get a fair hearing because he is not obligated to give them one. He has all but admitted this has been a witch hunt, and has said he has the power to do it.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Goodell needs to be careful, actually. Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless both have stated that the Ray Rice lies and bobbling from that office came very close to the owners replacing Goodell. I believe it takes a 2/3rd vote and there were approximately half of the owners in favor of a change. I think among the other owners, Kraft is fairly popular. He's stood up for them during the last lockout and his actions got the owners a more favorable CBA deal than they would have gotten without Kraft's resilience. If you got Kraft in a room with *most* other NFL owners, man to man, and Kraft planted a "what happens, Jerry, when it's the Cowboys that Goodell decides to make an example of?" or "You know, Dan, Goodell could pretty easily keel to media pressure and force the Redskins to change their name, fining and lambasting you in the process." seed in the other owner's heads... well, the results of that will/would be pretty much the final nail in Goodell's NFL coffin.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

I think it was a calculated risk, because while Kraft is well liked, the other owners are not too upset about the Patriots being taken down a notch. Almost everyone I work with are happy the Pats were hurt, and don't really care too much if it was deserved or not.

I also think after the Spygate fiasco Goodell thought the Pats would just roll over again.

Judge rules in favor of Tom Brady in Deflategate; NFL appeals decision
espn.go.com...

Brady was innocent and only Patriots haters did not see it. Anyone who was against Brady in this needs to take a serious look at themselves.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

Brady was innocent only Patriots haters did not see it. Anyone who was against Brady in this needs to take a serious look at themselves.

I have no skin in the game, I'm not in the NFL, but as a fellow human being and NFL fan I think I'm entitled to my opinion without being called derogatory childish terms such as "hater" nor do I need to be told to take a serious look at myself. Pretty rude statement there.

OJ beat the wrap too, but does anyone really believe he is innocent?

Brady beat the wrap against the NFL because Goodell bungled the entire investigation like a fool or more likely appeared to.

In my opinion Brady did exactly what he is accused of and he lied about it. The punishment and the process is an entirely separate matter.

How the judge rules on the legal matter is between the parties involved, but as an outsider the judge's decision does not effect my opinion and I really don't need to be spat upon by those who disagree with me.

originally posted by: verylowfrequency
I have no skin in the game, I'm not in the NFL, but as a fellow human being and NFL fan I think I'm entitled to my opinion without being called derogatory childish terms such as "hater" nor do I need to be told to take a serious look at myself. Pretty rude statement there.

Are you demanding a 4 game suspension for Brady with there being no evidence?

OJ beat the wrap too, but does anyone really believe he is innocent?

Brady beat the wrap against the NFL because Goodell bungled the entire investigation like a fool or more likely appeared to.

OJ did not beat the wrap, he lost in civil court, where Brady just won. In what way was the investigation bungled?

In my opinion Brady did exactly what he is accused of and he lied about it. The punishment and the process is an entirely separate matter.

Based on what evidence?

How the judge rules on the legal matter is between the parties involved, but as an outsider the judge's decision does not effect my opinion and I really don't need to be spat upon by those who disagree with me.

If your mind is made up despite evidence to the contrary that is the definition of hater. So again, what evidence has your mind made up?

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

No skin in the game means just that.

Are you demanding a 4 game suspension for Brady with there being no evidence?

I make no demands whatsoever. I could care less how the matter ends, which appears over in regards to the suspension, but unfortunately not quite over. I'm only voicing my opinion here, the same as I would if I were at a bar having a beer or shooting pool.

Bungled meaning Goodell didn't follow proper legal procedures because he doesn't know how, outlined in the judges ruling.

Based on what evidence?

I have no legal burden to provide such. I agree that enough was not evident for the judge to rule in favor of the NFL. That does not change my opinion that Brady had his crew deflating balls.

The evidence of a court of law and public opinion are two different matters and that's why I made the OJ analogy regarding OJ's not guilty court opinion in his criminal murder case and that of the public opinion. I see you were being coy in the matter.

Common sense is what I have and all I need in regards to everything written & presented by all parties involved that has been made public.

Again, I have no hate in the matter nor for anyone or any organization involved, I only have an opinion of what occurred based on common sense.

Brady did in a manner apologize to everyone for the spectacle in his glee. Even though it was aimed mostly at supporters, clearly he was reaching out to all sides. That was a nice gesture.

originally posted by: verylowfrequency

That doesn't change my belief that Brady was involved in deflating balls.

Based on what evidence?

Bungled meaning Goodell didn't follow proper legal procedures because he doesn't know how, outlined in the judges ruling.

That's not exactly what was said. The Judge kept asking for evidence. None could be provided. The Judge ruled that there was no precedent for he punishment. The ruling is based on Brady being punished with no evidence of any wrongdoing.

I have no legal burden to provide such. I agree that enough was not evident for the judge to rule in favor of the NFL. That does not change my opinion that Brady had his crew deflating balls.

Why are you talking not enough evidence .. there was none. It's nice to see you admit you make up your mind without any evidence.

The evidence of a court of law and public opinion are two different matters and that's why I made the OJ analogy regarding his not guilty court opinion in his criminal murder case and that of the public opinion. I thought it was common sense which OJ trial I was speaking about that the public disagreed, but apparently you wanted your coyness.

And it's a stupid analogy because there is a wealth of evidence against OJ. There is not one single piece of evidence against Brady. Not one.

Again, I have no hate in the matter nor for anyone or any organization involved, I only have an opinion of what occurred based on common sense.

Brady did in a manner apologize to everyone for the spectacle in his glee. Even though it was aimed mostly at supporters, clearly he was reaching out to all sides. That was a nice gesture.

So you supplant evidence with common sense and end up with neither.

Fact: No balls were tampered with in the Colts game and it's proven. The only ball that is slightly low is the one the Colts had in their possession.

Again I ask, what exactly leads you to believe Brady did anything?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
Based on what evidence?

Same answer as the last time you asked. Common sense. A professional knows his equipment like the back of his hand he would be acutely aware of every aspect of every ball he touches. Example: When ex NFL quarterback Joe Montana was asked if Brady would know the balls inflation simply by touching it he smiled and agreed that obviously anyone at that level would be aware of the balls pressure.

Brady has made statements regarding his preference for softer footballs.

The thing is, every quarterback likes it a little bit different,” Brady told the Sun-Sentinel at the time. “Some like them blown up a little bit more, some like them a little more thin, some like them a little more new, some like them really broken in.”

Tom Brady was the driving force behind a rules change that allowed visiting teams to provide their own footballs, rather than having both teams use footballs provided by the home team.

Common sense, why would the person in charge of inflating Brady's footballs refer to himself in text messages as the "deflator" unless that's what he is. If it looks like a duck, smells like a duck and walks like a duck….

The ruling is based on Brady being punished with no evidence of any wrongdoing.

Where is your evidence? How about pointing out the page and paragraph where the ruling references anything close to your statement.

Fact: No balls were tampered with in the Colts game and it's proven. The only ball that is slightly low is the one the Colts had in their possession.

Caveat Emptor. Perhaps you need to read the ruling instead of spreading disinformation.

This is the tell left by Judge Berman. The ruling is 40 pages long yet he did not rule on whether or not the balls were tampered with, whether Brady tampered with footballs or knew that others did.

Berman did not rule on whether Brady tampered with footballs or knew that others did or even if it happened, because he was not asked to decide that. He did not proclaim the quarterback’s innocence. He merely ruled that the collective bargaining agreement between the N.F.L. and the players’ union did not give Goodell the authority to rule with impunity.

Again I ask, what exactly leads you to believe Brady did anything?

Common sense though experience and all the evidence in front of everyone.

originally posted by: verylowfrequency

Same answer as the last time you asked. Common sense. A professional knows his equipment like the back of his hand he would be acutely aware of every aspect of every ball he touches. Example: When ex NFL quarterback Joe Montana was asked if Brady would know the balls inflation simply by touching it he smiled and agreed that obviously anyone at that level would be aware of the balls pressure.

No balls were ever discovered to have been deflated. The NFL and the Wells Report were full of lies and manipulations to deceive people like you into believing something that never happened.

The Colts player who intercepted the ball said the ball felt perfectly fine to him. The Colts balls were all equally "deflated" as the Pats balls due to the weather conditions. All footballs were within regulation limit once temperature is accounted for. Why did the Colts QB not notice a problem with the balls?

So how does your common sense look now?

If we take the mean of all six hypothetical scenarios, the average Patriot ball is about 0.003 PSI below where it should be at the time of measurement relative to the Colt balls.

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