Caitlyn... Check Yourself!

a reply to: Hefficide

I get what you're saying. But Caitlyn was Conservative before she was Caitlyn. She enjoyed a massive amount of celebrity privilege to be able to go through her transition. It's unfortunate that she doesn't realize she wouldn't have been able to transition so easily if at all had she been amongst her own ideological kind in middle America somewhere. Cognitive dissonance in all it's ugliness. Regardless she still deserves to be able to live her life as she chooses (I know that's not what you were saying).

This news and subject is getting so tiring. Enough!

a reply to: neutrinostargate

So don't click.

It makes sense. Except for the part where everyone who is a liberal has to agree with the whole liberal agenda. Transgenderism and economic politics are not related at all, so it makes sense someone might have a conservative view on one and a liberal view on the other.

I want to write a thread on ATS asking people to identify one opinion they have that is not expected for their political affiliation. I think we should be free to mix and match.

a reply to: darkbake

Although it appears that my OP came across as anti-gay to some, or as blindly liberal to others, I did not intend it that way. I agree with what you say here. People are free to choose.

Having said that, I find it difficult to accept double standards, which is how I perceive Caitlyn's position here. She relied upon the compassion and goodwill of others in her own battle, but seems unwilling to extend those courtesies to others. She might sincerely not understand poverty, as she may never have had to deal with it on a personal level. But she's on a slippery slope with her views. She seems to feel that poor people are poor by choice - which is ironic because that is the exact same biased view that others claim about her.

So you are saying that your relative doesn't actually want to become a woman? But is doing it in order to trick a lesbian woman into having a relationship with her? Are you sure? It doesn't seem worth it. But I guess some like it hot...



I admit it sounds insane to claim being a homosexual male and a lesbian woman all at once. But maybe in the future this will be regarded as perfectly normal? Who knows? Maybe people can have multiple facets to their sexuality/gender.

When it comes to Caitlyn Jenners political views I don't agree with you at all.

Just because liberals support her she owes it to them to agree with them in everything. Who decides what "the official" liberal opinion is anyway? It's a free country. She is allowed to have her opinion, even if it is a bad one.

originally posted by: Hefficide
She is biting the hand that fed her.

What? Is she some sort of indentured serf? Who else is not allowed to have conservative views according to you? Gays? Poor people? Mexicans?

And is the opposite true as well? Can a fundamentalist christian not be in favor of socialized welfare programs? I think this sort of bipartisan thinking is problematic.

Good rant though! I hope my post doesn't come across as too aggressive, I just like to play devils advocate.

a reply to: Hefficide

Caitlyn being a conservative, she's going to have some conservative views. I don't like what she said, but I understand that a lot of people who have been famous most of their lives live in a bubble. She probably hasn't given it much thought. She's not aware of how many trans kids are kicked out of their homes at 14, 15, 16 to fend for themselves.

It reminds me of black people (of the age to remember or be affected by Jim Crow) not supporting gay marriage. It's the SAME thing. Is it hypocritical? Yes. Are we all a little hypocritical at times? Yes.

I'm watching I am Cait and I've seen her trans friends look askance at some of the stuff she says. She's got a special platform and she's learning how to maneuver in it. I have a feeling once she's educated a little more, she's going to change her tune.

I don't know what to say about your family member. Sounds like there's more going on there than gender identity dysphoria.

a reply to: Hefficide

I'm not going to come to his defense, Heff, and you know I'm even further to the right than he is on my views of social welfare. You're forgetting one very sincere comment which many conservatives made during his media circus: "We don't give a damn about Bruce Jenner." That was portrayed (ignorantly) as "hate" by a lot of people, but disdain does not always stem from hatred... it often can simply be a case where a person truly feels complete apathy towards an issue or individual. That's where I stand on Bruce Jenner... I DON'T CARE. I don't want to watch him, I don't want to celebrate him, I don't get worked up over him, and I don't wish him any ill... I simply don't care.

I believe I'm far from alone in that sentiment.

As long as we keep the 'Trans' part out of it, that has nothing to do with her Personality, or her positions on political things.

Her being transgender does not make her Bad or Hypocrite

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Except it's Caitlyn Jenner and She is a She

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: Hefficide

I'm a male lesbian feminist. Accept me now. /rant over.

Well I sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter. Ever since I was a boy I dreamed of soaring over the oilfields dropping hot sticky loads on disgusting foreigners. People say to me that a person being a helicopter is Impossible and I’m retarded but I don’t care, I’m beautiful. I’m having a plastic surgeon install rotary blades, 30 mm cannons and AMG-114 Hellfire missiles on my body. From now on I want you guys to call me “Apache” and respect my right to kill from above and kill needlessly. If you can’t accept me you’re a heliphobe and need to check your vehicle privilege. Thank you for being so understanding.

And I'm a surface to air laser guided rocket platform...BOOOOM goodbye Apache...

a reply to: Hefficide

She's always been a republican, though. People who support her transition and her facing her issues don't have to agree with her politics. If George Bush announced he had cancer, I'm not suddenly going to pull my support from cancer patients just because I think he's evil nor will it suddenly make me like the republican platform.

I think her politics are wrong but her decision to confront her condition is right. There's no hypocrisy in that. The conservatives who made fun of her for being a transwoman but support her politics aren't really being hypocrites, either. They are still being asshats but not really hypocrites (concerning specifically this).

I'm hoping what it will do is make conservatives think more about what being transgender means, though, and I'm glad there is somebody like her among the ranks for high-profile republicans. I don't understand why a woman like her would align herself with them but it's an interesting twist, for sure.

a reply to: Darth_Prime

Dude, I've been known to call Kareem Abdul Jabbar "Lew Alcindor," Twinkies taste like crap since Hostess closed their doors, and I still watch WWF Monday Night Raw. I don't "do" change. Bruce Jenner won the US Olympic glory, he made the Wheaties box, and he will always be Bruce Jenner in my brain when I see one of these topics. That part of my mental model isn't going anywhere, believe me.

Well according to a very unflattering photo I received in my e-mails its still Bruce Jenner,whether he is genuine from the bottom of his heart a woman in a mans body or just a Kardassian circus clown after fame and a buck...I think OP has a point.

I am in much the same situation, OP.

A friend from about the age of 16, when I was 32, came out as being gender dysphoric and announced "Hey. I've seen a shrink that specializes in this kind of thing twice, and I'm going to become a woman!"

He felt that I was being negative when I asked a few questions...such as...

How many patients does this specialist turn away as not being truly gender dysphoric? (My gut tells me, ZERO)
Did you tell the specialist about your rather sincere, life long alcohol problem?
Did you tell the specialist about your baby sister that died when you were seven...you know, the one that even your WIFE didn't know about?

Well, because I simply asked those straightforward questions...I got "the hand"....and was lumped in with the crowd that wasn't yaying "her" and telling her how brave "she" was to do this!

I had no agenda behind those questions, other than that of being a good, caring friend. To this day, Mike is still in my heart as my younger brother. Frack, he taught me how to gauge bra sizes visually from a distance! But, Mike is no longer there. Now it's "Miranda". I thoroughly dislike "Miranda". Not because she is not who my little brother Mike was...but because she is a lie. Everything about her wreaks of coverup, lie, and negativity.

I know full well, that I cannot view any transgender person without a tainted viewpoint because of "Miranda". I try desperately not to. But, I know when I think of "Caitlyn", I cannot divorce her from my little brother, Mike who is now "Miranda".

I *really* miss my little brother. I would have embraced him....gladly called him Michelle...and embraced her. But because I didn't immediately trip over myself with fawning congratulations, and instead asked sincere questions that a friend SHOULD ask.....she shunned me.

And guess what...I *never* got even the slightest bit of an answer to any of my questions.

I miss you, Mouser.

a reply to: khnum

No it's not, it's Still Caitlyn Jenner.

Her being a Trans Woman shouldn't be the main focal point because her Political Stance and opinions have nothing to do with her her Gender Identity

a reply to: Darth_Prime

Her position as a trans woman gave her a platform from which to publicly state political opinions, thus opening her to rebuttal.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

I agree. You can put a horn on your head and it won't make you a unicorn. Demanding for people to pretend that you are is silly. It's like calling you vegetabley challenged for not pretending that peas aren't carrots.

a reply to: Hefficide

We should remember that Kaitlin killed somebody not so long ago. How much is this a ruse to erase that fact? Now she is everybody's darling.

a reply to: Hefficide

Right, but her being Trans doesn't make her have those Opinions, her political opinions are separate from her Gender-Identity