Britain and Immigration - Ignorance is Bliss

back in the 70's and 80's i went to England at every opportunity,what a wonderful country.
i just loved it there...after reading this thread im wondering if i went back what would i find.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Boo hoo.
This is a nation of immigrants...

Or are you forgetting that it's an Island?


But yes, blame the liberals, even if it was paedo Heath and other right wingers who pushed for this EU collaboration.
Probably for an easing of human trafficking across our waters.
You're reaping what you sow.

...the area is "not the same".

Say what you mean...
Don't let us assume, say it!

Absolute BS! It has been disproven so many times by scientific community that Britain and Europe are not nations of immigrants. That is a left wing fallacy that has been debunked so many times that it isnt even funny anymore. Our gene pool can be traced back to the hunter gatherers that arrived between 15,000 and 7,500 years ago from the Basque country. There were waves of immigration in late neolithic and then further in to Roman and anglo saxon invasions but they did not wipe out the inhabitants and none contributed more than 5% to our genetic mix so forget the we are nation of immigrants its insulting!

Even if this was true, the only immigration that would have occured wouldve been within Europe and the difference between immigration from within a continent with quite similar cultures and people, to immigration from totally different cultures and people, is the difference between harmonious existence and not, because one thing Europeans have done when moving around Europe, with exception of one or two states, is easily integrate.

This is also is a weak argument when it comes to case of sustainability. Yes we are an island, so how can we sustain unlimited immigration at a net rate of 250k a year? Thats an official number as well so the rate when including illegal immigration is off the scale.

This is a question of sustainability, economically, socially and culturally. Something that the current rate of immigration is destroying.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Compare immigration levels in the early 90s to now, there is no comparison. I was even pro immigration in the 90s, but now working and living daily with it, its an absolute nightmare the destruction it is causing at community level and public service level and resources spent on it is being absolutely covered up. Here in many parts of London and Kent also, it truly is unsustainable and has destroyed once nice areas. The crime rate these people bring with them and very violent crime as well, is something we are not used to in this country also. So comparing early 90s immigration to the last ten years is like conparing a river to a sea.

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

I think it can be regional, although it is spreading. London and the Kent coast have been hit hard, too hard in my opinion. Many cities and towns in midlands and north are also hit with it and will be even more so as we move more of these people north of the Watford gap to distribute them "evenly", which basically means send them to places where none of the politicians live.

Then you can head south west or even west in general and there are places that have none or very few and dont even know what you are talking about. So its not nationwide yet, but it will be eventually it has to be at the current rate. Although I will say the density of population is constantly being tweaked up, where I live every bit of green is having social housing built on it and wouldnt you know, the first set of five flats built and not one British family moved in! I know one family living out of a wrecked studio flat who have lived in the borough for 20 years and been on the council housing list, still nothing...Go figure...

a reply to: SecretFace

your posts make me sad, you are under invasion as we are here in the states.
you have a wonderful country..sorry.

originally posted by: woogleuk
a reply to: ManFromEurope


British industry used to be one of the best in the world, and it could be again if we get the opportunity to properly trade with other countries outside of the EU.

Most British companies are now owned by foreigners, I seriously doubt they would pull out simply because we said no to Brussels.

British industry hit the buffers some time around the end of the nineteenth century and never recovered. Between the Germans and the Americans, Britain's share of the Imperial market suffered.

Then came World War I, with it's asociated costs, and the Depression.

Then came World War II, which permanently hamstrung Britain's economy.

After World War II, British industry was complacent and unimaginative. For example, when offered the entire Volkswagen organisation - intellectual property, tools, plant, Uncle Tom Cobbleigh and all - as spoils of war, the British motor industry turned it down saying British cars were better and would sell themselves. Similarly, the British post-war aircraft industry was innovative and creative and completely squandered by managers who expected the world to come knocking at their door.

Then came the economic shocks of the late sixties and early seventies and the subsequent reaction from the workforce - a convenient excuse to pass the buck about Britain's industrial and economic decline.

Britain had a chance to join the European project at the very beginning. Churchill was 100% in favour. It was the Labour Party who were against it, seeing our place in the mid-Atlantic and creating NATO instead.

It became evident in the early 50s that Britain needed to fix up and every PM until Ted Heath begged to join. Every PM between Ted Heath and Gordon Brown made it work for Britain. David Cameron threw away 35 years of hard won leverage in one hissy fit at the end of 2010, fighting off an attempt to regulate the banks.

The best Britain plc can hope for outside the EU is bumping along like Norway, complying with EU regs in order to trade with the EU without having any say whatsowever. Once TTIP kicks in, and the US and EU get the best deals, Britain and Norway and Iceland and Switzerland will get the cold leftovers. The only things likely to make businesses stay in such an unrewarding environment is tax breaks, paid for by us, and lower labour costs, paid for by us.

The best the average man in the street can hope for is that things don't get any worse. If we leave the EU, and there is a Tory government in place, we will lose all manner of social protection too.

Ironically, the problems at Calais will not go away. We are not in the Shengen zone and they do not have right of residence in the rest of the EU.

Like Churchill said about democracy, the EU is pretty shabby but the alternatives are worse.

originally posted by: TSOM87

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Boo hoo.
This is a nation of immigrants...

The United Kingdon isn't an Unlimited Utopia. We have a Public service that is stuggling to meet demand. We also have a large low skilled labour market mostly made of up young white British males outside of London.

Let's put Ideology to the side and use common sence to discuss this crisis.

I agree. Let's start by looking at where the money for our public services has gone since the Credit Crunch.

a reply to: SecretFace

The European leftists who demand that Britons sacrifice their culture on the altar of diversity will then insist immigrant subcultures be 'respected' - i.e. they should not be pressured to assimilate.

To these people, some cultures are worth preserving and others not. On what basis could they be making these determinations? Surely race is not a factor to these 'enlightened' individuals...

a reply to: chewi
i live in us and i totally agree all the factory work in my area is being gobbled up by burmese refugees which only leaves fast food and retail jobs for the young people in my area. they come barely anle to speak english let alone read and when the build something wrong the managent writes up the american guy on the line not the one responsible who can't read the instruction sheet in front off him.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Boo hoo.
This is a nation of immigrants...

Or are you forgetting that it's an Island?

Yes, that's true. But back in the day, the inhabitants were allowed to fend or fight for their identity as a point of national/cultural/existential survival. Because we are not allowed to discuss it, but must merely accept it as willing rape participants, you will find people veering to the 'extreme' to defend what they see as a right to self preservation.
We have a rich cultural heritage that many do not wish to see eradicated through insidious authoritarian appeasement.
I reserve the right to be offended as much as the next man.

originally posted by: DAVID64
We in the U.S. are facing much the same problem. Illegals flooding the country and govt doing little to enforce the law or stop them. The corporations want them for cheap labor, the politicians want them for the votes. What We The People want seems to be completely ignored.

Least your illegals are mostly Mexican. ....ours are Muslim...hundreds of thousands of undocumented non back ground checked middle eastern immigrants running around.......what could go wrong.......

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Boo hoo.
This is a nation of immigrants...

Or are you forgetting that it's an Island?


But yes, blame the liberals, even if it was paedo Heath and other right wingers who pushed for this EU collaboration.
Probably for an easing of human trafficking across our waters.
You're reaping what you sow.

...the area is "not the same".

Say what you mean...
Don't let us assume, say it!

I have no issue with immigrants as long as they are here legal, have been back ground checked and it's done in a fair and controlled way so not as to overload public services and infrastructure.

a reply to: SecretFace

This is indeed an apparently inexplicable situation, in which the obvious end game is Dickensian social squaller.

The catastrophe here is not about the differences in cultural identities (i believe that difference is good - by experiencing otherness we become better people).

The problem is NUMBERS and the impossibility of infrastructure to catch up an keep pace with the rapidly increasing numbers in urban areas.

Not just the immigrants, but the children of immigrants and their children. It is nearly impossible to get a school place, or see a doctor, or squeeze onto a train at rush hour.

These things are never 'easy' in cities, but in the past decade the numbers have multiplied at a rate unseen in my long years. The infrastructure will simply collapse if the numbers continue to rise at this rate.

Why would the leaders of a sovereign nation allow this to happen?

The inevitable losses incurred by population increasing far beyond the capacity of infrastructure will without doubt dwarf any gains made to culture and equality by this out-of-control melting pot....

What equality can there be in a ghetto? ....The UK's major cities will be monstrous ghettos a few generations from now.

The cost to urban society will dwarf any gains made to the economy as a whole... But it is not the economy as a whole that interests those who make such Sovereign decisions. It is the economy of a few - an elite - the stocks and shares of the bastards that own us all to their way of thinking.

As Poirot, Columbo or anyone with deductive reasoning may ask - Who has something to gain from this?

Statesman and newsmen certainly profit, but the ones that gain the most are the board members and owners of corporate entities who see a direct rise in profits caused by the influx of cheap labour driving wages down. Sure these are the below-minimum-wages jobs, but they must affect the slightly higher paid jobs of the blue collar workforce, mustn't they?

Employers love a buyer's market - our rapidly increasing numbers tipping the scales ever further in that direction. It's the very few, the elite that rub their hands in glee at this mass immigration and the 'inability' of British politicians to extradite themselves from it says far more about their loyalties than their competence.

There are two ways to fix this: Leave Europe and impose a strict Australian style of immigration control. Or, raise the minimum wages and enforce it, so that immigrants get the same pay as UK nationals - stamp out the black market of workers.

The latter would stop the 'trickle-up' supply & demand effect that prevents wages rising in line with inflation. It would disincentivize immigration for corporate puppet masters and they're lap dogs in the House of Commons would end mass immigration in the blink of an eye.

The so-called Liberals - the humanists and socialists - that argue for 'free-movement' of people - workers - are in reality, whether they know it or not, the foot-soldiers of capitalistic profiteers, of whom i'd imagine very few are socialists or even humanists. Ironically it's the idealists whom drive the greed agenda, doing the profits of the elite a great, great service by keeping the cheap work force multiplying.

originally posted by: flammadracoyou're in the EU experiment fiasco until it dies a natural death and thus have no controls over your boarders!

Of course the EU will simply continue to exist and thrive. It's a bit like Unix.

Come again? Unix.

In the IT world we have the Unix operating system. Most of the IT buffs will tell you that it originated in 1972 (the year it was rewritten in C). So, we have had Unix for say 43 years now. It's old and ugly. Reports of Unix death have circulated from the early 1980s on. Actually, when Windows NT was created, many of my collegues thought it was the final stab in the back of Unix. That was in 1987 or thereabout, methinks. Unix is still here.

And oh dear - these anti-Unix folks had all the reason to be so sure about Unix's death: it ran on heavy servers, not on common X86 hardware, for example. But Unix adapted. Oh, but it was very expensive. But Unix adapted. Oh, but it had an outdated security model. Unix adapted. It was protected by trademarks and copyrights. Unix adapted. It was thought to be way to big to run on tiny devices. Unix adapted. It only had a CLI - Unix adapted. And in the meantime it was being declared dead frequently. It never died.

Likwise, the EU will not die anytime soon, rest assured, regardless what its critics have to say about it. And mind you, like with the Unix critics: they might even be right - but it is of no importance. The EU has worked quite well, thank you, and though there are many atrocities involved with it - it frequently adapts and always survives. The most recent example is the Greek crisis; who'd 've thunk that they would ever, ever accept the harsh dictate from the EU, giving the referendum ("OXI"..) and their main political party, the socialists, whom are traditionally opposed to the EU? Still, the EU survived.

You go ahead and dream about saving your country a penny on the pound (that's roughly what your membership costs you). But mark my words: Unix is not dead yet either

www.youtube.com...

Nuff said

a reply to: ForteanOrg

Does "Unix" have an immigration problem?

originally posted by: XyZeR
www.youtube.com...

Nuff said

Stewart Lee is a huge lefty... a socialist extraordinaire...

He is so far up labours backside that Gordon Brown thought Stewart Lee was a hemorrhoid....

a reply to: Korg Trinity

And you are a so far right you've lost the ability to see that what he sais about immigration is in fact right.

you remind me of something

originally posted by: XyZeR
a reply to: Korg Trinity

And you are a so far right you've lost the ability to see that what he sais about immigration is in fact right.

you remind me of something

It is you that is not reading or comprehending what I've said...

I have no issue with Controlled immigration... the operative word being CONTROLLED.... We should be able to say that only people of a certain quality are allowed in.

And we should be able to turn people away and deport people regardless of where they are from, if they do not meet the required standards!

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: ForteanOrg

Does "Unix" have an immigration problem?

Nope. All that want to contribute to the modern variants of Unix (e.g. Linux, OpenBSD etc.) can. And even those who haven't contributed are allowed to profit from it.

EUnix