theory on the origins of Islam

originally posted by: ChesterJohn

originally posted by: Kapusta

And may our god have mercy upon as all

I have my Gods Mercy, forgiveness, He has given me his holiness, His righteousness, and has justified me from all sin on the Cross of Jesus Christ.

He helps me take care of my family, he provides where my job cannot, we read the Bible and pray together everyday, we fellowship at a small church for the sake of fellowship with other Christians. My moral state is because of him and not something I do to get points or gain his approval. All of that is already approved of God. I change in areas where I am weak and grow in my faith. And of all the Christians that really hurt me I hate none of them and I will not let their actions dissuade me from living for Jesus Christ My Lord and Saviour, because he and he alone is Lord and saviour of all.

Preach it !!!

originally posted by: Kapusta
Your god is my god , just as my god is your god .

Their is only one !

Your 'god' condones LYING AKA taqiyya...

If Allah condones lying what makes you think he's not lying to you through his "holy scriptures" the Qur'an?

The Muslim's claim that Allah is the God of the Bible and that Islam arose from the religion of the prophets and apostles is refuted by solid, overwhelming archeological evidence. Islam is nothing more than a revival of the ancient Moon-god cult. It has taken the symbols, the rites, the ceremonies, and even the name of its god from the ancient pagan religion of the Moon-god. As such, it is sheer idolatry and must be rejected by all those who follow the Torah and Gospel.

Allah, The Moon god?

That Allah is not the God of the Bible is very clear. The biblical God is called Yahweh (or Jehovah) nearly 9,000 times. Yet Allah is not called by that name even once in the Koran. Why not, if Allah is the same God?

IS ALLAH THE SAME AS GOD OF THE BIBLE

After comparing the Allah of the Qur’an and the Yahweh of the Bible, it should be apparent that they could not be referring to the same God. Either the Muslim Allah is the true God or the Christian Yahweh is the true God, or neither is true. As the Law of non-Contradiction teaches, they both cannot be true. One thing should be sure, though, the God of Muhammad cannot be the Father of Jesus.

Is Allah of Islam the same as Yahweh of Christianity?

Many believe the word “Allah” was derived from the mid- eastern word “el” which in Ugaritic, Caananite and Hebrew can mean a true or false God. This is not the case, “The source of this (Allah) goes back to pre-Muslim times. Allah is not a common name meaning “God” (or a “god”), and the Muslim must use another word or form if he wishes to indicate any other than his own peculiar deity.” (Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics (ed. Hastings), I:326.)

According to the Encyclopedia of Religion, Allah corresponded to the Babylonian god Baal, and Arabs knew of him long before Mohammed worshipped him as the supreme God. Before Islam the Arabs recognized many gods and goddesses, each tribe had their own deity. There were also nature deities. Allah was the god of the local Quarish tribe, which was Mohammed's tribe before he invented Islam to lead his people out of their polytheism.

Is Allah God's name

Essentially, we must understand and accept that Allah of the Islamic religion is not the same as the God of the Bible. Allah can be traced backwards through ancient Near Eastern religious history as the latest development in a series of astral and atmospheric deities in the ancient Semitic world, all the way back to very ancient Mesopotamia, the original seat of both civilization, and also idolatry. Muslims, when they worship Allah, are not worshipping the true Creator God, but are rather worshipping a false god, one whose worship is condemned in the Bible:

For the Muslim who wished to deny or ignore this evidence, the question is posed: Why does Islam have such a fixation with the crescent moon symbol, a symbol which is intimately and widely associated with the worship of the moon god throughout history...

Myth #3 - Allah is the Same as the God of the Bible

a reply to: Murgatroid

When will the ignorance stop ? Your sources are really misinformed ....

What is taqiyyah, and who are the people who practise it? In fatwa no. 101272, you said that it is a term that is particular to the Shi‘ah, and that they are the only ones who practise it. But I discussed with some people who said that Ahl as-Sunnah also practise it. Is this true?

Ready for the Answer ? ..... Because I am not going to repeat my self again , I'll adress this "lying issue " everything else I have covered and you keep regurgitating it .

Do me a favor an pay attention savvy ?

Praise be to Allah Firstly: Taqiyyah, in the usual and well-known sense, is one of the basic principles of the Ithna-Ash‘ari Raafidis; Ahl as-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa‘ah differ from them concerning it and it is something that takes them beyond the boundaries of the straight path of Allah. Taqiyyah in their religion means presenting outwardly something that is different from what one believes inwardly, as an act of religious devotion. Thus they attributed lying and deceit to the religion of Allah, wrongfully and out of enmity. This corrupt belief has nothing to do with the beliefs (‘aqeedah) of Ahl as-Sunnah. According to Ahl as-Sunnah, lying is one of the attributes of the hypocrites. A person may keep on lying and persist in lying until he is recorded with Allah as a liar. These people tell lies and persist in lying in all things, then they regard that as part of their beliefs and religion. The way of Ahl as-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa‘ah is based on truthfulness and justice; lying is not part of their religion, praise be to Allah. Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said: The Raafidis are the most ignorant and mendacious of sects, and the furthest removed from any knowledge of the texts or rational evidence. They regard taqiyyah as one of the basic principles of their religion, and they tell lies about Ahl al-Bayt (the Prophet’s family), the extent of which is known only to Allah. They even narrated from Ja‘far as-Saadiq that he said: “Taqiyyah is my religion and the religion of my forefathers.” But taqiyyah is one of the signs of hypocrisy; in fact in their case, they say verbally that which is not in their hearts, and this is the essence of hypocrisy. End quote from Majmoo‘ al-Fataawa, 13/263

This is a Shia practice , and If i understand correctly they are only allowed to do it if they are in a situation that is need , Such as saving a life or what ever ....

For Us Sunni ... Nope we don't practice such a thing because Obviously its wrong and take people outside the fold of Islam


ETA: all your sources are Christian and Jewish based link really ?......*FACE PALM*

originally posted by: Kapusta

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: Kapusta

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: Kapusta

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Kapusta

you know what, if you have to go to a foreign language it means you only what to change the meaning. If you can't understand it in plain English you will never understand it in any other language.

Christians aren't free to sin.

Your friend may be an orthodox something but that does not make him saved nor understand who God is.

I disagree with you so let's leave it at that.

Sometimes you have to go to the original language that the text are in to fully understand the meaning .

That is why The Qur'an is still in it's Original language . So one should strive to understand it .


Just like you should strive to learn Greek, or biblical Hebrew , so you get a full understanding of your religion.

ACTUALLY the qu ran is NOT in its original language. If that wa true it would be in anchient arabian nor modern, Modern arabian actually changes soem words definitions and meanings due to its use of punctuations. look it up if you dont believe me.

you are absolutely incorrect , Look more into it yuppa. before you make such a statement you should really understand the history of the Arabic language

Nope im right. ill link you.
differing versions

Firstly no you are not , It is well known that the kufic language or classical Arabic the only minor differences were vowels and diacritical points etc. but it did not take away from the meaning of any particular ayat .


Secondary, from your source

We agree with the scholarly understanding that NONE of the differences, whether vocal (vowel and diacritical points) or graphic (basic letter), between the transmission of Hafs and the transmission of Warsh has any great effect on the meaning

Thirdly , Your source submission.org Is run by a wingnut quranoon who rejects hadith and disregards proven Scholarly fact's .


The author of the site is person who act's on Bid'Ah ( innovation of scripture ) .

The only thing i agree on after browsing the site was the statement that these minor dots and dashes etc do not change the meaning of the Qur'an .

Example: tomato tomahto get it ?

You are doing exactly what I said quranic defenders would do. If something contradicts the Quran its called corruption or mis interpretation. Thank you for proving my point. Shoot even saying a fellow Muslim is lying about the quran. Tut tut for shame. Isnt it wrong to accuse a fellow muslim of lying?

originally posted by: yuppa
HEre is a page that explains this much better than me. See this i like because it made me want to research this.

The old laws and if they apply today.

Your post grabbed my attention so I went to the link to read the article.

I immediately saw a red flag so I checked up on the source.

Something I always do before spending any time reading someones material.

The author is so far off into left field concerning key scriptural issues such as miracles etc. that I would not waste another minute on his website.

He is teaching many of the same things that many other heretical pastors such as John MacArthur teach.

He claims that signs, wonders, miracles, tongues, prophecy have passed away with the Apostles.

This post goes into more detail on this: www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: Murgatroid

originally posted by: yuppa
HEre is a page that explains this much better than me. See this i like because it made me want to research this.

The old laws and if they apply today.

Your post grabbed my attention so I went to the link to read the article.

I immediately saw a red flag so I checked up on the source.

Something I always do before spending any time reading someones material.

The author is so far off into left field concerning key scriptural issues such as miracles etc. that I would not waste another minute on his website.

He is teaching many of the same things that many other heretical pastors such as John MacArthur teach.

He claims that signs, wonders, miracles, tongues, prophecy have passed away with the Apostles.

This post goes into more detail on this: www.abovetopsecret.com...

ahh ok. Nowthat I have confirmation from another person as well i think ill search another poster.

a reply to: yuppa

Ok Yuppa, I speak the truth I have nothing to hide . When disinformation is presented it is my obligation to correct it . No its wrong to state facts about anyone who Is giving out wrong information. It happens often in this religion by Muslims and non muslims . This is why their are differing sects and Extremism. Because people form an inaccurate Idea about scripture just as you have done .

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: Murgatroid

originally posted by: yuppa
HEre is a page that explains this much better than me. See this i like because it made me want to research this.

The old laws and if they apply today.

Your post grabbed my attention so I went to the link to read the article.

I immediately saw a red flag so I checked up on the source.

Something I always do before spending any time reading someones material.

The author is so far off into left field concerning key scriptural issues such as miracles etc. that I would not waste another minute on his website.

He is teaching many of the same things that many other heretical pastors such as John MacArthur teach.

He claims that signs, wonders, miracles, tongues, prophecy have passed away with the Apostles.

This post goes into more detail on this: www.abovetopsecret.com...

ahh ok. Nowthat I have confirmation from another person as well i think ill search another poster.

Is this your rebuttal? Do you have any facts to counter the questionable material you have been posting ?

originally posted by: Kapusta
a reply to: yuppa

Ok Yuppa, I speak the truth I have nothing to hide . When disinformation is presented it is my obligation to correct it . No its wrong to state facts about anyone who Is giving out wrong information. It happens often in this religion by Muslims and non muslims . This is why their are differing sects and Extremism. Because people form an inaccurate Idea about scripture just as you have done .

OK. Can ya show me anything though written by a third party though so i can get a balanced view on this though? we need someone who isnt beholden to a pro or against to write on these subjects. I appreciate ya honesty and meant ya no offense in any post though. Its one reason i tyr to not discuss this with people i kind of like. I was thinking ya emotions were clouding ya view a bit.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: Kapusta
a reply to: yuppa

Ok Yuppa, I speak the truth I have nothing to hide . When disinformation is presented it is my obligation to correct it . No its wrong to state facts about anyone who Is giving out wrong information. It happens often in this religion by Muslims and non muslims . This is why their are differing sects and Extremism. Because people form an inaccurate Idea about scripture just as you have done .

OK. Can ya show me anything though written by a third party though so i can get a balanced view on this though? we need someone who isnt beholden to a pro or against to write on these subjects. I appreciate ya honesty and meant ya no offense in any post though. Its one reason i tyr to not discuss this with people i kind of like. I was thinking ya emotions were clouding ya view a bit.

Look I call BS when i see it , even in my own religion , Many times have i had to stand up to Muslims who were spewing nonsenses. I have walked down both roads , I was a Christian for most of my life and i still defend Christianity when the time is needed , Many Muslims don't understand the concept of the trinity , they believe Christan believe in 3 differing gods when the reality is that it is one god with 2 extensions ( Jesus , holy spirit ) . I am pro when I have to be , I stand firm when disinformation is presented as fact , I'll do this for any religion . I am of the understanding that we all worship the same god save for the ones who worship more than one god .


I understand you want a 3rd party source , but taking opinion from a neutral party is not going to get you the desired answers. everyone holds bias to a degree . So take the knowledge from those who are most qualified to give it . Take the hard facts , and draw your own conclusion . I had to do this wile i was researching Islam .

Their is a saying in Islam ," Don't follow Scholars blindly" . out of all the many Scholars of our time I can honestly say that I only take knowledge from a handful of them because they don't riddle any of the scripture with "ideas" They come forth with "How it is " .

a reply to: yuppa
Well, you initially stated that the Quran is not in it's original language, which isn't really correct, so it is hard to show you a source explicitly saying it- kinda difficult to prove a negative. Kufic/Hejazi are words used to describe the script used, they don't refer to a different language. The alphabet, the words, their meanings, have all remained the same, but the scripts and dialects have evolved, and the style has somewhat simplified (comparable to stuff like older english using "dost" and "thou" instead of "do" and "you" which modern english uses).

You said that "modern arabic changes some word definitions and meanings due to its use of punctuations". This somewhat suggests a little confusion on your part, so I hope you don't mind if I clarify.
There is the matter of diacritical marks, but since you used the word "punctuation", I assume you're not talking about those, and rather talking about dots used to differentiate between the various forms of letters. For example, in arabic, the letter "TH" is shaped like a Ü (approximately). However, if we put the two dots below the U shape, it becomes "Y". If we only have one dot below the U shape, it becomes "B".

The thing is, these dots to differentiate the letters have been used from the beginnings of Islam. Someone a couple weeks ago posted a thread about one of the earliest Quranic manuscripts discovered in Birmingham, and it had dots too! They may have used dots less often (maybe only when not using it could potentially confuse the word for another word with a similar letter), but they still used them! In modern arabic, it is more consistently applied, regardless of whether or not it would cause confusion if not applied (probably to help out the millions of non-arabs who try to read arabic).

For example, "عبد", ( 'A-B-D), meaning "servant" in the arabic language (you may have noticed it as the start of lots of muslim names "Abdullah", for example), could very easily have skipped out on the dot below the B letter, because the alternate "عتد" ('A-TH-D) with two dots above instead of one below, doesn't mean anything, and another alternate "عيد" ('A-Y-D) with the two dots below, means "feast" or "celebration", would make no sense in the context of the other ("He is a fine feast of God"?).

Hope that helps!

originally posted by: babloyi
a reply to: yuppa
Well, you initially stated that the Quran is not in it's original language, which isn't really correct, so it is hard to show you a source explicitly saying it- kinda difficult to prove a negative. Kufic/Hejazi are words used to describe the script used, they don't refer to a different language. The alphabet, the words, their meanings, have all remained the same, but the scripts and dialects have evolved, and the style has somewhat simplified (comparable to stuff like older english using "dost" and "thou" instead of "do" and "you" which modern english uses).

You said that "modern arabic changes some word definitions and meanings due to its use of punctuations". This somewhat suggests a little confusion on your part, so I hope you don't mind if I clarify.
There is the matter of diacritical marks, but since you used the word "punctuation", I assume you're not talking about those, and rather talking about dots used to differentiate between the various forms of letters. For example, in arabic, the letter "TH" is shaped like a Ü (approximately). However, if we put the two dots below the U shape, it becomes "Y". If we only have one dot below the U shape, it becomes "B".

The thing is, these dots to differentiate the letters have been used from the beginnings of Islam. Someone a couple weeks ago posted a thread about one of the earliest Quranic manuscripts discovered in Birmingham, and it had dots too! They may have used dots less often (maybe only when not using it could potentially confuse the word for another word with a similar letter), but they still used them! In modern arabic, it is more consistently applied, regardless of whether or not it would cause confusion if not applied (probably to help out the millions of non-arabs who try to read arabic).

For example, "عبد", ( 'A-B-D), meaning "servant" in the arabic language (you may have noticed it as the start of lots of muslim names "Abdullah", for example), could very easily have skipped out on the dot below the B letter, because the alternate "عتد" ('A-TH-D) with two dots above instead of one below, doesn't mean anything, and another alternate "عيد" ('A-Y-D) with the two dots below, means "feast" or "celebration", would make no sense in the context of the other ("He is a fine feast of God"?).

Hope that helps!

AHhh yeah that helps alot. Thanks. And well thats good they found a older one that matches up.

Muhammad claimed to be a descendant of Ishmael. The bible says: "Come," they say, "let us destroy them as a nation, that the name of Israel be remembered no more." With one mind they plot together; they form an alliance against you-the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites" (Psalm 83:4-6) Islam and Judaism I think have just been stuck in a family feud for centuries.

Christianity on the other hand is something that most of the world cannot grasp. Why do I say that? Why did Jesus say "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." (Matthew 7:13,14)?

Did Jesus indicate his followers would be numerous? No! Few would find his teachings.

He said his followers "are not of the world, even as I am not of it." (John 17:16) This means his followers would not get involved in politics or wars like the nations.

His followers would not receive money for teaching "Freely you have received, freely give." (Matthew 10:7)

His followers would not take titles for themselves, unlike most faiths who "love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them Rabbi." "But you are not to be called Rabbi, for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth 'father' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven." (Matthew 23:8,9)

So, what faith has no paid clergy, does not go to war, and truly relies on God? It is the true one.

originally posted by: TheChrome
Muhammad claimed to be a descendant of Ishmael. The bible says: "Come," they say, "let us destroy them as a nation, that the name of Israel be remembered no more." With one mind they plot together; they form an alliance against you-the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites" (Psalm 83:4-6) Islam and Judaism I think have just been stuck in a family feud for centuries.

Christianity on the other hand is something that most of the world cannot grasp. Why do I say that? Why did Jesus say "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." (Matthew 7:13,14)?

Did Jesus indicate his followers would be numerous? No! Few would find his teachings.

He said his followers "are not of the world, even as I am not of it." (John 17:16) This means his followers would not get involved in politics or wars like the nations.

His followers would not receive money for teaching "Freely you have received, freely give." (Matthew 10:7)

His followers would not take titles for themselves, unlike most faiths who "love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them Rabbi." "But you are not to be called Rabbi, for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth 'father' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven." (Matthew 23:8,9)

So, what faith has no paid clergy, does not go to war, and truly relies on God? It is the true one.

I see your point of view , But keep in mind that Islam Is the latter of the 3 faiths , Prior to Islam It was Christianity and Judaism.


I really wonder if The words of john and Mathew are the words that Jesus spoke . being as they were not present during the time of Jesus ,but rather 70 to 100 years after .

originally posted by: Kapusta

originally posted by: TheChrome
Muhammad claimed to be a descendant of Ishmael. The bible says: "Come," they say, "let us destroy them as a nation, that the name of Israel be remembered no more." With one mind they plot together; they form an alliance against you-the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites" (Psalm 83:4-6) Islam and Judaism I think have just been stuck in a family feud for centuries.

Christianity on the other hand is something that most of the world cannot grasp. Why do I say that? Why did Jesus say "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." (Matthew 7:13,14)?

Did Jesus indicate his followers would be numerous? No! Few would find his teachings.

He said his followers "are not of the world, even as I am not of it." (John 17:16) This means his followers would not get involved in politics or wars like the nations.

His followers would not receive money for teaching "Freely you have received, freely give." (Matthew 10:7)

His followers would not take titles for themselves, unlike most faiths who "love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them Rabbi." "But you are not to be called Rabbi, for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth 'father' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven." (Matthew 23:8,9)

So, what faith has no paid clergy, does not go to war, and truly relies on God? It is the true one.

I see your point of view , But keep in mind that Islam Is the latter of the 3 faiths , Prior to Islam It was Christianity and Judaism.


I really wonder if The words of john and Mathew are the words that Jesus spoke . being as they were not present during the time of Jesus ,but rather 70 to 100 years after .

Matthew, and John were apostles of Jesus. It is not true that they were not present with him. They in fact were with him even during the last supper. John was the last apostle to die, about the year 99 AD

originally posted by: TheChrome

originally posted by: Kapusta

originally posted by: TheChrome
Muhammad claimed to be a descendant of Ishmael. The bible says: "Come," they say, "let us destroy them as a nation, that the name of Israel be remembered no more." With one mind they plot together; they form an alliance against you-the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites" (Psalm 83:4-6) Islam and Judaism I think have just been stuck in a family feud for centuries.

Christianity on the other hand is something that most of the world cannot grasp. Why do I say that? Why did Jesus say "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." (Matthew 7:13,14)?

Did Jesus indicate his followers would be numerous? No! Few would find his teachings.

He said his followers "are not of the world, even as I am not of it." (John 17:16) This means his followers would not get involved in politics or wars like the nations.

His followers would not receive money for teaching "Freely you have received, freely give." (Matthew 10:7)

His followers would not take titles for themselves, unlike most faiths who "love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them Rabbi." "But you are not to be called Rabbi, for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth 'father' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven." (Matthew 23:8,9)

So, what faith has no paid clergy, does not go to war, and truly relies on God? It is the true one.

I see your point of view , But keep in mind that Islam Is the latter of the 3 faiths , Prior to Islam It was Christianity and Judaism.


I really wonder if The words of john and Mathew are the words that Jesus spoke . being as they were not present during the time of Jesus ,but rather 70 to 100 years after .

Matthew, and John were apostles of Jesus. It is not true that they were not present with him. They in fact were with him even during the last supper. John was the last apostle to die, about the year 99 AD

forgive me I have made a grave mistake , I its 1:30 am here ... I think what i was trying to say that the Gospels were written 70 to 100 years after the death of Jesus , and not by the hand of John or Matthew, Also from what i understand not all of Jesus writings and teachings are in the bible .


It's been a long time since I have touched on Christianity , I have been putting all my time in effort into the study of my religion . Please correct me if i have made any mistakes .

Kap

a reply to: Kapusta

I understand. You have not made any grave mistakes.

I will teach you the parable of the wheat and the weeds.

"The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in the field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared...Let both grow until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring them into my barn." (Matthew 13:24-30)

The Apostles were the fine seed sowed by their master Jesus. The weeds were people who began to arise shortly after Jesus died, who have promoted false teachings of the Christ for 2000 years since then. In today's age, it is the time to harvest the wheat among the weeds.

a reply to: TheChrome


Indeed I have heard this before , Is this an Orthodox understanding ?

originally posted by: Kapusta

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: Kapusta
a reply to: yuppa

Ok Yuppa, I speak the truth I have nothing to hide . When disinformation is presented it is my obligation to correct it . No its wrong to state facts about anyone who Is giving out wrong information. It happens often in this religion by Muslims and non muslims . This is why their are differing sects and Extremism. Because people form an inaccurate Idea about scripture just as you have done .

OK. Can ya show me anything though written by a third party though so i can get a balanced view on this though? we need someone who isnt beholden to a pro or against to write on these subjects. I appreciate ya honesty and meant ya no offense in any post though. Its one reason i tyr to not discuss this with people i kind of like. I was thinking ya emotions were clouding ya view a bit.

Look I call BS when i see it , even in my own religion , Many times have i had to stand up to Muslims who were spewing nonsenses. I have walked down both roads , I was a Christian for most of my life and i still defend Christianity when the time is needed , Many Muslims don't understand the concept of the trinity , they believe Christan believe in 3 differing gods when the reality is that it is one god with 2 extensions ( Jesus , holy spirit ) . I am pro when I have to be , I stand firm when disinformation is presented as fact , I'll do this for any religion . I am of the understanding that we all worship the same god save for the ones who worship more than one god .


I understand you want a 3rd party source , but taking opinion from a neutral party is not going to get you the desired answers. everyone holds bias to a degree . So take the knowledge from those who are most qualified to give it . Take the hard facts , and draw your own conclusion . I had to do this wile i was researching Islam .

Their is a saying in Islam ," Don't follow Scholars blindly" . out of all the many Scholars of our time I can honestly say that I only take knowledge from a handful of them because they don't riddle any of the scripture with "ideas" They come forth with "How it is " .

I understand now. thank you. BEtween you and babloyi i got a clearer understanding on it.