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originally posted by: choos
already shown you what it looks like, already shown you they have taken a close up HD image of directly under the descent engine.. you choose to ignore it.. that is your problem.
originally posted by: choos
they knew it changed, they just underestimated it.
nothing to support the claim they flew around the most intense areas???
no data use for any studies?? they have tables publish on the intensity of the VAB available on the internet...
nobody knew the VAB was very dynamic? define very dynamic.
originally posted by: turbonium1
No, you're ignoring the specific area, same as usual.
You are in denial, and that's the whole problem. So be it, then.
They called it 'dynamic', first of all.
They describe it further, so you should read it, yourself.
And this will make it clear for you to grasp the term, just as they meant it.
As for avoiding the worst parts of the VAB, there is nothing at all to support your claim.
It would be completely documented, without a sliver of doubt.
It's not even mentioned at all, to boot...
Apollo-ites invented it, and have gone on and on saying it, trying to excuse the whole problem away.
As you try to, right here.
Perhaps by saying they avoided the worst parts of the VAB over and over, you were not aware that the claim is not valid in any way.
You certainly know it, now, though.
What is claimed has no proof, it is only a belief...
You believe they knew so much about the belts, at the time, while they now realize it is the complete opposite...
You believe an area of disturbed soil around the LM exists, while no surface images show it exists....
You believe they avoided the worst parts of the VAB, while no documents ever mention it....
It is basically a religion, a belief, a blind faith.
A spacecraft mainly of aluminum works in manned moon missions, while they now state aluminum actually intensifies the hazard...
All good, now..
originally posted by: MuonToGluon
a reply to: choos
He completely skipped over and ignored my post!
It even showed what a modern shield sat orbiting directly through the inner/strongest VARB receives in a year, which would show what a person going through part of the outer belt for a very brief period of time would receive.
No proof no proof, because we just send our sats up there that costs millions to billions of dollars on the hunch they will survive with luck...
originally posted by: choos
back to aluminium?? remember when you said it was pure aluminium that was the problem and aluminium alloy was a completely different thing??
you should have no issue with this claim anymore since they used aluminium alloy..
originally posted by: turbonium1
Aluminum was used in all of the Apollo spacecraft, like they had always used it in their spacecraft built before Apollo.
They assumed it would protect humans in space, anywhere at all.
originally posted by: turbonium1
The dosage couldn't be known, because it changes all the time, throughout the belts. In a moment.
originally posted by: turbonium1
originally posted by: MuonToGluon
a reply to: choos
He completely skipped over and ignored my post!
It even showed what a modern shield sat orbiting directly through the inner/strongest VARB receives in a year, which would show what a person going through part of the outer belt for a very brief period of time would receive.
No proof no proof, because we just send our sats up there that costs millions to billions of dollars on the hunch they will survive with luck...
The dosage couldn't be known, because it changes all the time, throughout the belts. In a moment..
This is the reality, as they have clearly stated.
Deny the reality all you want, it matters not, anyway.
originally posted by: Box of Rain
originally posted by: turbonium1
Aluminum was used in all of the Apollo spacecraft, like they had always used it in their spacecraft built before Apollo.
They assumed it would protect humans in space, anywhere at all.
Actually, no -- they did not assume that aluminum was a good shielding against cosmic particle radiation. The aluminum was merely there as a skin with which to physically cover the spacecraft. It was not put there to shield against radiation.
In fact, the Apollo spacecraft designs included no specific radiation shielding whatsoever. The main way they protected the astronauts from cosmic particle radiation was to limit the length of the missions to limit the length of exposure.
The insulation below the aluminum skin did add a certain level of radiation shielding, but the insulation was put there to insulate, not to specifically provide radiation protection. The radiation protection it gave was a fringe benefit.
Like I said, the main method they used to manage the risks from radiation was to keep the missions relatively short (the longest was 12 days), NOT radiation shielding.
originally posted by: MuonToGluon
They detonated Nuclear weapons in space, created an artificial radiation belt, tested the radiation levels in the belts and had a general idea what the levels were, they also made soldiers crawl through radioactive fallout.
They had a general idea what the risks and radiation level were, they knew there were radiation dangers, they knew that the astronauts were going to be exposed to radiation.
originally posted by: turbonium1
originally posted by: MuonToGluon
They detonated Nuclear weapons in space, created an artificial radiation belt, tested the radiation levels in the belts and had a general idea what the levels were, they also made soldiers crawl through radioactive fallout.
They had a general idea what the risks and radiation level were, they knew there were radiation dangers, they knew that the astronauts were going to be exposed to radiation.
They didn't have a clue. Saying they knew it in 'general' means nothing. You have to support your claim, but cannot support it, at all.
How do you know anything is 'safe' or not, at this region, or that region? The behavior affects the entire VAB environment, so nobody knows where it is 'safe', or not, since it changes all the time, when they didn't even realize that it constantly changes, back then?
originally posted by: turbonium1
But you say they don't need shielding for short missions. Wrong.
originally posted by: turbonium1
The papers I showed you referred to aluminum, as I've told you over and over again.
And I have only cited what is in the papers, exactly as written.
Nothing they said in the papers was about pure aluminum, or not.
You made it up as being my claim, which is total bs.
Sad.
Aluminum was used in all of the Apollo spacecraft, like they had always used it in their spacecraft built before Apollo.
They assumed it would protect humans in space, anywhere at all.
Many years later, they found out aluminum is NOT a good material for deep space. Aluminum makes it even worse than it was before, in fact.
Now, when did they realize aluminum was worse than no shield at all?
In all the 'lunar' manned missions, while using their aluminum spacecraft, it was perfectly safe!!
Yikes.
originally posted by: Rob48
a reply to: turbonium1
You do realise that the papers are talking about future missions into deep space? Such as missions to Mars, which will mean being in space for months at a time? Different missions require different levels of protection. Freediving to 100ft does not require the same level of equipment as going to the bottom of the Marianas Trench.
originally posted by: expatwhite
originally posted by: Rob48
a reply to: turbonium1
You do realise that the papers are talking about future missions into deep space? Such as missions to Mars, which will mean being in space for months at a time? Different missions require different levels of protection. Freediving to 100ft does not require the same level of equipment as going to the bottom of the Marianas Trench.
Yes the poster knows, it's been pointed out to him/her hundreds of times. For some reason he/she totally ignores it. Challenge him /her to understand that 12 day short trip is totally different to 18 months long distance trip and turbs will just completely blank it. Almost trolling to me
originally posted by: MuonToGluon
Was I talking about some shifting of the Radiation Fields? No, I was not.
I was talking about the Radiation levels and type and the fact that multiple space probes prior to Apollo had mapped the VARB to know the positions and locations of them so they could pick the most optimal inclination to go around the inner and punch through part of the outer.
Them know decades later that the VARB was more Dynamic then it was back in the 60s does not support your argument at all, there are plenty of drugs and chemicals we used to use in the past that gave a hell of a lot of people cancers and diseases and killed many that we only found out about many years after using them.
Your argument and logic is flawed.
So because they did not know about the dynamic structure of the VARB in the 60s, that they could not of gone and done it because we found out that the VARB were more dynamic many years after Apollo...?