I am all for the 2nd but dont like concealed carry, and this is why...

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES
If modern media consumption has anything to say about it, update my last post with a bunch of gamer kids furiously wielding their controllers and firing off their most vicious "yo momma" insults and we might just be able to sell press passes to this event.

Seriously.
There's a lot of that generation that shouldn't be anywhere NEAR a firearm.

That's a very good point.

I have never been one to blame media for the actions of individuals, but there is no doubt that the society we grow up in during formative years absolutely has to play a part in our personalities and behaviors.

So, if we accept that there is a subculture of people who grew up with all-American action heroes shooting bad guys and go on to emulate that in a facet of their being, then it's plausible that the same will happen with the millions of young people now playing games in which they are the one shooting the bad guys, or the good guys, or any guys.

That of course doesn't mean that anything should be banned or rejected because of it, but it does make me wonder about the psychological implications that has for a minority of young people who, combined with perhaps one or two other psychological ingredients, might emulate something like that later in life.

Again, none of this means that we need to start adjusting society to make concessions for the random loons, but it does offer food for thought in how media impacts on certain individuals and how this might manifest.

a reply to: Rocker2013

LOL
I am not denying that our action heroes tend to have guns at all, I am merely stating that you asked puppy to provide you with our HISTORICAL heroes who wielded swords.

Now considering that America was founded in 1776 long after the gun was being used in war that seems like a fixed game to me, is all.
I am certain that if we lived in Japan then there would be ninjas a plenty... why cause Japan actually had a time in which melee weapons were around and guns were not....
we did not have ninjas... we had colonials in the 1700's

Do you deny this? If so then the conversation would need to end, you're actively denying cultural reality in support of your views and there would be no point continuing.

What exactly do you think my views are in relation to my cultural reality?

All sensible people know that the American entertainment business was for a long time saturated with American hero movies shooting guns at bad guys. When you look at the ages of those with a fascination with guns and what seems to be a hero complex - we can say predominantly in their 40's and 50's - then they would have been teenagers in the 80's, when it could be argued that gun-wielding uber-macho American heroism was at its height in cinema.

LOL You do know movies and entertainment are some of our biggest exports right?
That means everyone else must not be half as distressed as they say otherwise they would not import it into their country...
Just saying if we are wicked bad naturally you will have to just forgive us cause you know... acceptance.
The people you need to be mad at are the people buying the entertainment we export. They after all have a choice in being evil. LOL

open carry is legal here but you never see people doing it.
carrying open is a sure way to freak people out and have the cops on your ass with the quickness.

legal does not mean the boys are not gonna roll up on you to see what is what.

just seems like a recipe for disaster to me.

if a cop knows for a fact you have a glock on your hip, theyre gonna be twitchy from the start.

my opinion but again, you never see people carrying in the open even though its legal

a reply to: Rocker2013

Hear ya loud and clear.


Don't forget to factor in legions of parents who cannot or will not hold their children accountable and throw them into the school system and take up frivolous lawsuits anytime Little Precious Good Boy Johnny goes off the rails at school and someone has to discipline them into accordance with civil behavior and polite society.

They say it takes a Village to raise a child....but it also takes a Village to raise an idiot.

a reply to: Punisher75

LOL You do know movies and entertainment are some of our biggest exports right?
That means everyone else must not be half as distressed as they say otherwise they would not import it into their country...

That's very true, the rest of us obviously grew up idolizing movies like Die Hard, Rambo, Lethal Weapon, the terminator and the hundreds of other "American hereo" movies that were so popular as I was growing up.

But to the people living outside of the US, it was all happening in some fantasy land that we didn't inhabit. It's (imo) not that far fetched to assume that Americans might of taken the whole thing more literal, since these awesomely entertaining movies were actually taking place in the land that they belonged to.

That's just a random thought anyway... I'm sure there's plenty of people living outside of the US, who's mentality was heavily influenced by the American hero gun wielding action movies they grew up with.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Well I can promise you this no one here thinks there is a John McClain is a real cop.
We do in fact know that Harrison Ford is not our president, and that John Rambo is in fact not what special forces guys are really like. LOL

In addition we also know that a gun would have indeed run out of bullets long before the final action scene was over.

a reply to: Punisher75

Wait you mean guns don't have infinite ammo? O.O *mind blown*

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Punisher75

Wait you mean guns don't have infinite ammo? O.O *mind blown*

Crazy right? LOL
I don't know but I am willing to bet that I could have figured that one out even if I was not a gun crazed psycho killing American.

originally posted by: Punisher75
LOL You do know movies and entertainment are some of our biggest exports right?

We're talking about the culture here, and how the glorification of guns and the hyper-masculinity of the all-American hero might have an impact on a minority of men who seem to have an obsession with presenting themselves in a certain way or imagining themselves to be something they're not.

Perhaps if our countries outside of the US had such relaxed attitude to gun ownership we might now be experiencing the same thing? As we don't, we'll never know.

originally posted by: Punisher75
a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Well I can promise you this no one here thinks there is a John McClain is a real cop.
We do in fact know that Harrison Ford is not our president, and that John Rambo is in fact not what special forces guys are really like. LOL

In addition we also know that a gun would have indeed run out of bullets long before the final action scene was over.

You say we as though you speak for all, no one is doing that here.

Clearly, as I said more than once, I am not talking about the imagined beliefs or actions of an entire group of people, I'm talking about the social environment and media influencing the attitudes of a minority of men who have repeatedly been exposed to a hyper-masculine image of the all-American hero shooting off his gun to save the poor innocent victims.

Really, you only need to see evidence for this yourself in any discussion on here after a shooting incident, where people arrive to say that if someone there was armed they would have saved all those people by shooting the perpetrator, the thread then usually unravels into a debate about gun rights, rather than where it should lead - into a discussion about the psychology of those who think having a gun in such a situation would make them an all-American hero.

That's a direct example of this mentality, and it seems (to me) to stem from a history of glorification of the American hero who wields a gun to save the good people from the bad people.

You don't need to believe that John McClain was real, the collective reinforcement of American exceptionalism, nationalism, heroism, and gun-worship, is enough to give a minority of men the belief that if they were in such a situation they would "save the day".

a reply to: Punisher75

I've wrestled with this issue; they've passed open carry in Texas.

Here's my problem with open carry.....the minute you do that, you have to be quite careful and watchful to protect the firearm. The firearm itself becomes a target. I've conceal carried for years now and I've perfected through practice the technique of protecting the firearm side of my body and keeping my self between approaching people. This technique also involves protecting your back, (though I carry on my side), so that others can't approach me from behind. When walking in a super market, store or down a sidewalk, I'm constantly scanning my "6" to observe who may be approaching from behind. When I observe someone approaching from the rear at a rapid pace, I instinctively move to cover my back with a wall, pillar or display rack and present my left side to the approaching person, (I carry on my right side) and then pivot as they pass to face their back.

I've been doing this so long that its second nature to me although I have to admit that I do consciously remind myself to "practice" watcfulness and gun-side protection every time I leave the house. I think of it as ongoing training.

Contrast that to the typical beat cop with the firearm and taser, etc. hanging off their belt. I've seen them in the grocery store and most of them, are completely oblivious to who's around them, how close they are or whether they are standing too close to them on their "6". This is particularly true with the younger ones and truer still of the "other" jurisdiction type cops, i.e. Border Patrol, School Cops, Mall Cops, etc. Its as though they've had no training whatsoever.

Now......if cops aren't mindful of protecting the open carry weapon, to what extent do you think the average citizen is even going to know to do this? Not many! Weapons are expensive; the bad guys want them. If they see the opportunity, they're going to take them, especially if they can close in unobserved and especially if they work in teams. And they practice both! So I submit to you that Open Carry may do no more than put more firearms in the hands of the bad guys.

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: Punisher75

I've wrestled with this issue; they've passed open carry in Texas.

Here's my problem with open carry.....the minute you do that, you have to be quite careful and watchful to protect the firearm. The firearm itself becomes a target. I've conceal carried for years now and I've perfected through practice the technique of protecting the firearm side of my body and keeping my self between approaching people. This technique also involves protecting your back, (though I carry on my side), so that others can't approach me from behind. When walking in a super market, store or down a sidewalk, I'm constantly scanning my "6" to observe who may be approaching from behind. When I observe someone approaching from the rear at a rapid pace, I instinctively move to cover my back with a wall, pillar or display rack and present my left side to the approaching person, (I carry on my right side) and then pivot as they pass to face their back.

I've been doing this so long that its second nature to me although I have to admit that I do consciously remind myself to "practice" watcfulness and gun-side protection every time I leave the house. I think of it as ongoing training.

Contrast that to the typical beat cop with the firearm and taser, etc. hanging off their belt. I've seen them in the grocery store and most of them, are completely oblivious to who's around them, how close they are or whether they are standing too close to them on their "6". This is particularly true with the younger ones and truer still of the "other" jurisdiction type cops, i.e. Border Patrol, School Cops, Mall Cops, etc. Its as though they've had no training whatsoever.

Now......if cops aren't mindful of protecting the open carry weapon, to what extent do you think the average citizen is even going to know to do this? Not many! Weapons are expensive; the bad guys want them. If they see the opportunity, they're going to take them, especially if they can close in unobserved and especially if they work in teams. And they practice both! So I submit to you that Open Carry may do no more than put more firearms in the hands of the bad guys.

Did you get the chance to read the article I posted earlier in the thread? I would be interested in your opinion on it.

a reply to: Punisher75

As a CCL person I personally think open carry not only invites criminals but LEO and public notice. Our society is so unaware of many of the laws and our rights that people would be freaking out left and right.

originally posted by: sirlancelot
a reply to: Punisher75

As a CCL person I personally think open carry not only invites criminals but LEO and public notice. Our society is so unaware of many of the laws and our rights that people would be freaking out left and right.

I agree they certainly would.
What I would like to see personally however would be a change in our society to people being less a feared of the things. Often times in life the best way to get over your fear is to be around the thing that scares you.
All I mean by that is this...
People currently have a right to open carry in quite a few places with few restrictions.
We dont.
Why not?
Because it might scare people.
However instead of gun owners being shown any respect for our restraint and NOT carrying firearms everyplace we go, out of respect for others, we are instead demonized. Called baby killers, and then watch as people lobby to take away guns they don't even see outside of TV and movies.
Thats messed up.
How is it we can respect them enough NOT to have our guns in their line of sight when they are walking down the street, when we have every right to, and it not even be restricted by state law in anyway other than "the gun cannot be loaded" but they cannot seem to leave us and our property alone?

originally posted by: Punisher75
I want to be like Martin Riggs?
Really?
And you came to this conclusion based on... what exactly?
You just kind of assume that we all want to be a hero and save the day, and just cant wait to kill someone.
How would you know what we want if your not one of us?
Oh I know... Guns.

That's just...
SMH
Okay Dokie.

Your name here and avator kind of say something mate!


IMO open carry would be a bad idea,concealed works fine

a reply to: Punisher75

Sorry, I missed that.
I just read it.......my thought.....well......it would make it easier for me to carry my .357 Ruger GP100 4" barrel. Now when I carry it, I use a shoulder holster....not perfect for summer carry.

I don't know; maybe the deterrence argument is valid. But the bad guys in, say Downtown Houston, Dallas or Ft. Worth are so whacked out, it wouldn't surprise me that we hear of them "jumping" the gun (openly carried), as it were and creating even more havoc than they already do. I've seen them circling cops like sharks.

I guess.....we'll see. I don't think the argument that open carry will desensitize the anti-gun crowd is valid however. Those people are just plain "bent". Anti-firearm beliefs have become a religion to them; its an emotional rather than a rational type thing. Nothing will ever change them except maybe, getting bonked by the bad guys.

a reply to: Punisher75

Concealed carry without permit is the only way to make it nearly impossible to tell who is or is not carrying. Thus, everybody benefits from the shared understanding that criminality is just not worth it.

That is what maintains civility. It also happens to be the only constitutional policy.

a reply to: Punisher75

In Michigan on average...1 out of 4 are carrying concealed (including myself). That lady and child in line at the grocery store, the gas station, the man walking his dog...at Walmart...you never know. And "bulges" are 90% non-visible.

Its the idea for the bad guys...that you never know who is or isn't carrying. Its the "don't take a chance" form of deterrent...and mine...never shows.

Concealed has its points...as does open carry.

MS
CPL/CCW
FEMA/Homeland Security 1st responder

a reply to: Punisher75

Think of the wild west cowboy-days...everyone open-carried...and there were dead bodies everywhere

a reply to: Punisher75

In addition we also know that a gun would have indeed run out of bullets long before the final action scene was over.

No, way...that can't possibly be true. You mean all those movies with all those god-like heroes I worship are...are...lying to me?

I had no idea. None.