Walter Palmer, the infamous lion killer. Be afraid, be very afraid

a reply to: FlySolo

It is sort of what I thought.

You seem to be comparing total tourism revenue to the total revenue from hunting.


How much revenue goes to conservation and from where does it come from?

A lot of sources of tourism doesn't allocate any money to conservation so why would that be compared to hunting that does allocate money to conservation?

a reply to: Grimpachi

While I dig for the answer why don't you tell me how much ecotoursim contributes to the well being of animals vs trophy hunting? Because I know for a fact photographic tourism is way more.

And besides. It's a moot point anyway because if it has been proven trophy hunting offers no economical benefit, then there's no need to kill them in the first place. So what difference does it make?

a reply to: FlySolo

I was pretty much asking you because I noticed that one of the things you were comparing was the amount brought in from hotels and such which BTW was 9% of their GDP.

I can't imagine much of if any of that goes toward conservation but I could be wrong.


Hunting brings in 6% of their GDP but I am pretty sure at least some of that goes towards conservation.


Which one of those do you think would benefit conservation more?

That is why I said simply comparing percent of GDP doesn't make fair comparisons.

Edit to add

About the only thing I can say confidently about tourism there is the average tourist in South Africa spends $64 a day on stuff like food and hotel rooms and transportation and maybe even tour of a national park. It costs a hunter up to $35,000 to kill a single lion in that country. So I will venture to say that the hunters at least financially inject more money into the economy per person than just about any other type of tourist.

a reply to: Grimpachi

i don't know. Here, watch this. Let her put things in perspective...


disclaimer:
I'm not a vegan and I love my steak medium rare

a reply to: FlySolo

I can't watch videos right now.

I hope all you people bitching about hunting are vegetarians because if you go home and eat a steak you are a Hypocrite.

Dont tell me how hunting for sport is any different then other people slaughtering other animals to feed you .

If you were being hunted by 2 guys and one wanted to eat you the other just wanted to kill you which one are you more scared of?

Or would you just not want to die?

originally posted by: alienjuggalo
I hope all you people bitching about hunting are vegetarians because if you go home and eat a steak you are a Hypocrite.

Dont tell me how hunting for sport is any different then other people slaughtering other animals to feed you .

If you were being hunted by 2 guys and one wanted to eat you the other just wanted to kill you which one are you more scared of?

Or would you just not want to die?

The idea of hunting something, and not using the kill for anything other than a target is a damn shame, a waste, and an atrocity!

The Native Americans used ALL of the animal.

It's a waste to just pull a trigger / let loose an arrow.. take a few photos with the deceased creature, and walk away..

Perhaps mister im a effin rich dentist could come to Australia and hunt one of these .


Oh wait , we killed them all .

originally posted by: johnwick

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: johnwick

Ya they get plenty of money outside of that.

I get the conservationism angle, but when animals that are getting close to becoming extent are getting killed, it falls on it's face.

animals.nationalgeographic.com...

We are losing our wildlife at to fast of a rate.

I won't deny that, I agree.

But this idiocy of applauding some idiot for threatening a guy for a perfectly legal act, that he paid a lot of money to do, that the country he did it in really needs, is batshot crazy.

BUT it was not a legal act: (from BBC reporting)

"The US dentist who killed a lion in Zimbabwe should be extradited to face charges, Zimbabwe's Environment Minister Oppah Muchinguri has said.

Walter Palmer's extradition was being sought so that he could "be held accountable for his illegal action," she said."

The lion populations are staggeringly depleted. It strikes me as something Orwellian to say that to preserve it we must kill it for pleasure. Doublespeak or what?

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: FlySolo

I was pretty much asking you because I noticed that one of the things you were comparing was the amount brought in from hotels and such which BTW was 9% of their GDP.

I can't imagine much of if any of that goes toward conservation but I could be wrong.


Hunting brings in 6% of their GDP but I am pretty sure at least some of that goes towards conservation.


Which one of those do you think would benefit conservation more?

That is why I said simply comparing percent of GDP doesn't make fair comparisons.

Edit to add

About the only thing I can say confidently about tourism there is the average tourist in South Africa spends $64 a day on stuff like food and hotel rooms and transportation and maybe even tour of a national park. It costs a hunter up to $35,000 to kill a single lion in that country. So I will venture to say that the hunters at least financially inject more money into the economy per person than just about any other type of tourist.

Trophy hunting only accounts for 0.29% of GDP. That is what the BBC reported.

originally posted by: Revolution9

originally posted by: johnwick

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: johnwick

Ya they get plenty of money outside of that.

I get the conservationism angle, but when animals that are getting close to becoming extent are getting killed, it falls on it's face.

animals.nationalgeographic.com...

We are losing our wildlife at to fast of a rate.

I won't deny that, I agree.

But this idiocy of applauding some idiot for threatening a guy for a perfectly legal act, that he paid a lot of money to do, that the country he did it in really needs, is batshot crazy.

BUT it was not a legal act: (from BBC reporting)

"The US dentist who killed a lion in Zimbabwe should be extradited to face charges, Zimbabwe's Environment Minister Oppah Muchinguri has said.

Walter Palmer's extradition was being sought so that he could "be held accountable for his illegal action," she said."

The lion populations are staggeringly depleted. It strikes me as something Orwellian to say that to preserve it we must kill it for pleasure. Doublespeak or what?

Ranches breed animals for hunting as well as release back into the wild.
conservationmagazine.org...
Poachers slaughtered the vast majority of animals and devalued them. I'd say increasing the number of a species from 100 to 11,000 is conservation, even if a portion of that is hunted for trophies. It takes money to run these programs. Money poachers don't seem to want to donate.

a reply to: FlySolo

Here are some statistics to play with:

"Lions in Africa

35,000 - Max estimated lion population

12,000 - Max lion population in southern Africa

665 Approx number of 'trophy' lions killed for export from Africa per year

49 Lion 'trophies' exported from Zimbabwe in 2013

0.29% Contribution to GDP of Zimbabwe from trophy hunting

17% Of Zimbabwe's land given to trophy hunting "


Source: lionsalert.org, CITES, UICN


Only 35, 000 lions left in the whole of Africa. Frightening.

A video of an idiot with anger issues making threats , not sure how that helps anyone other than the channel of the idiot making the threats.

originally posted by: johnwick

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: zazzafrazz

Today, trophy hunting takes place in 23 sub-Saharan African nations, generating over $200 million and attracting over 18,000 clients each year. That’s money spent in the economies of multiple African nations directly pegged to the continuing presence of big game animals. It’s a large economic incentive for conservation of these species. And it’s growing.

The explosive growth in South Africa is largely due to ranch land that had been dedicated to livestock being given over to game ranching. Elephants and lions are now worth more to landowners than cows and chickens.

Because a hunter like Walt Palmer is prepared to fly over and pay someone a large sum of money to kill a big, endangered critter, an economic opportunity attached to that critter is created. So, an enterprising individual will do anything from breeding to fostering to protecting and/or providing a habitat for a population of those critters. In order for that economic opportunity to last and for the investment to pay off, many more critters need to be added than the Walts of this world can ever kill. And because Walt and his pals want prime examples of that critter hanging on their trophy room walls, those critters need to be happy, healthy and wild. Yes, Walt will kill some of them, but many more will be able to go about their happy, healthy, wild lives as a result.

Does anyone think that the ranch owners are forgoing raising cows and chickens in lieu of animals that could kill them out of the kindness of their hearts?

Game ranches have reached an equivalent total area to national parks in South Africa, effectively doubling the land on which large animals have to grow and roam.

What kind of animals do people think will be raised on that land if hunters stop coming and paying to hunt?

indefinitelywild

Stop making sense from, one lion got shot, despite the fact this activity has caused a huge jump in their numbers, and is bringing them back from the brink, a single lion died!!!!!

You can't reason with the unreasonable.

Financial incentive is saving these animals, without it, more land will go to farming meat than wildlife, but that doesn't matter, because a single lion died!!!

Why are you delibrately ignoreing the fact this was not a clean controlled legal kill in this case?



They used illegal methods to lure a lion who was on a no kill list out of a no hunting zone.


Yes trophy killing brings in money and can help but it has to be done by the law and in this case it wasnt.


Now hand the denist over for extradition .

originally posted by: Revolution9
a reply to: FlySolo

Here are some statistics to play with:

"Lions in Africa

35,000 - Max estimated lion population

12,000 - Max lion population in southern Africa

665 Approx number of 'trophy' lions killed for export from Africa per year

49 Lion 'trophies' exported from Zimbabwe in 2013

0.29% Contribution to GDP of Zimbabwe from trophy hunting

17% Of Zimbabwe's land given to trophy hunting "


Source: lionsalert.org, CITES, UICN


Only 35, 000 lions left in the whole of Africa. Frightening.

They are in the early stages. Look at what a regulated, licensed, seasonal hunting program has done for EVERY state in America over the past 30 years for EVERYONE of the regulated species. Pretty good sample size of information if one is willing to look.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: johnwick

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: zazzafrazz

Today, trophy hunting takes place in 23 sub-Saharan African nations, generating over $200 million and attracting over 18,000 clients each year. That’s money spent in the economies of multiple African nations directly pegged to the continuing presence of big game animals. It’s a large economic incentive for conservation of these species. And it’s growing.

The explosive growth in South Africa is largely due to ranch land that had been dedicated to livestock being given over to game ranching. Elephants and lions are now worth more to landowners than cows and chickens.

Because a hunter like Walt Palmer is prepared to fly over and pay someone a large sum of money to kill a big, endangered critter, an economic opportunity attached to that critter is created. So, an enterprising individual will do anything from breeding to fostering to protecting and/or providing a habitat for a population of those critters. In order for that economic opportunity to last and for the investment to pay off, many more critters need to be added than the Walts of this world can ever kill. And because Walt and his pals want prime examples of that critter hanging on their trophy room walls, those critters need to be happy, healthy and wild. Yes, Walt will kill some of them, but many more will be able to go about their happy, healthy, wild lives as a result.

Does anyone think that the ranch owners are forgoing raising cows and chickens in lieu of animals that could kill them out of the kindness of their hearts?

Game ranches have reached an equivalent total area to national parks in South Africa, effectively doubling the land on which large animals have to grow and roam.

What kind of animals do people think will be raised on that land if hunters stop coming and paying to hunt?

indefinitelywild

Stop making sense from, one lion got shot, despite the fact this activity has caused a huge jump in their numbers, and is bringing them back from the brink, a single lion died!!!!!

You can't reason with the unreasonable.

Financial incentive is saving these animals, without it, more land will go to farming meat than wildlife, but that doesn't matter, because a single lion died!!!

Why are you delibratky ignoreing the fact this was not a clean controlled legal kill in this case?



They used illegal methods to lure a lion who was on a no kill list out of a no hunting zone.


Yes trophy killing brings in money and can help but it has to be done by the law and in this case it wasnt.


Now hand the denist over for extradition .

Site the law please, bet you cant

originally posted by: In4ormant

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: johnwick

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: zazzafrazz

Today, trophy hunting takes place in 23 sub-Saharan African nations, generating over $200 million and attracting over 18,000 clients each year. That’s money spent in the economies of multiple African nations directly pegged to the continuing presence of big game animals. It’s a large economic incentive for conservation of these species. And it’s growing.

The explosive growth in South Africa is largely due to ranch land that had been dedicated to livestock being given over to game ranching. Elephants and lions are now worth more to landowners than cows and chickens.

Because a hunter like Walt Palmer is prepared to fly over and pay someone a large sum of money to kill a big, endangered critter, an economic opportunity attached to that critter is created. So, an enterprising individual will do anything from breeding to fostering to protecting and/or providing a habitat for a population of those critters. In order for that economic opportunity to last and for the investment to pay off, many more critters need to be added than the Walts of this world can ever kill. And because Walt and his pals want prime examples of that critter hanging on their trophy room walls, those critters need to be happy, healthy and wild. Yes, Walt will kill some of them, but many more will be able to go about their happy, healthy, wild lives as a result.

Does anyone think that the ranch owners are forgoing raising cows and chickens in lieu of animals that could kill them out of the kindness of their hearts?

Game ranches have reached an equivalent total area to national parks in South Africa, effectively doubling the land on which large animals have to grow and roam.

What kind of animals do people think will be raised on that land if hunters stop coming and paying to hunt?

indefinitelywild

Stop making sense from, one lion got shot, despite the fact this activity has caused a huge jump in their numbers, and is bringing them back from the brink, a single lion died!!!!!

You can't reason with the unreasonable.

Financial incentive is saving these animals, without it, more land will go to farming meat than wildlife, but that doesn't matter, because a single lion died!!!

Why are you delibratky ignoreing the fact this was not a clean controlled legal kill in this case?



They used illegal methods to lure a lion who was on a no kill list out of a no hunting zone.


Yes trophy killing brings in money and can help but it has to be done by the law and in this case it wasnt.


Now hand the denist over for extradition .

Site the law please, bet you cant

When I get home from work I will have a look at zimbabwe law and post the exact law.


But obviouly zimbabwe law was broken as the hunt organizers would have been charged and the Zimbabwe gov not demanding palmers extradition.

If the hunt was legal then goverment would not be kicking up such a fuss.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: In4ormant

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: johnwick

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: zazzafrazz

Today, trophy hunting takes place in 23 sub-Saharan African nations, generating over $200 million and attracting over 18,000 clients each year. That’s money spent in the economies of multiple African nations directly pegged to the continuing presence of big game animals. It’s a large economic incentive for conservation of these species. And it’s growing.

The explosive growth in South Africa is largely due to ranch land that had been dedicated to livestock being given over to game ranching. Elephants and lions are now worth more to landowners than cows and chickens.

Because a hunter like Walt Palmer is prepared to fly over and pay someone a large sum of money to kill a big, endangered critter, an economic opportunity attached to that critter is created. So, an enterprising individual will do anything from breeding to fostering to protecting and/or providing a habitat for a population of those critters. In order for that economic opportunity to last and for the investment to pay off, many more critters need to be added than the Walts of this world can ever kill. And because Walt and his pals want prime examples of that critter hanging on their trophy room walls, those critters need to be happy, healthy and wild. Yes, Walt will kill some of them, but many more will be able to go about their happy, healthy, wild lives as a result.

Does anyone think that the ranch owners are forgoing raising cows and chickens in lieu of animals that could kill them out of the kindness of their hearts?

Game ranches have reached an equivalent total area to national parks in South Africa, effectively doubling the land on which large animals have to grow and roam.

What kind of animals do people think will be raised on that land if hunters stop coming and paying to hunt?

indefinitelywild

Stop making sense from, one lion got shot, despite the fact this activity has caused a huge jump in their numbers, and is bringing them back from the brink, a single lion died!!!!!

You can't reason with the unreasonable.

Financial incentive is saving these animals, without it, more land will go to farming meat than wildlife, but that doesn't matter, because a single lion died!!!

Why are you delibratky ignoreing the fact this was not a clean controlled legal kill in this case?



They used illegal methods to lure a lion who was on a no kill list out of a no hunting zone.


Yes trophy killing brings in money and can help but it has to be done by the law and in this case it wasnt.


Now hand the denist over for extradition .

Site the law please, bet you cant

When I get home from work I will have a look at zimbabwe law and post the exact law.


But obviouly zimbabwe law was broken as the hunt organizers would have been charged and the Zimbabwe gov not demanding palmers extradition.

If the hunt was legal then goverment would not be kicking up such a fuss.

I'm wrong on this. I had read it was legal. Palmer said he was told by his guide it was all legal. If so, Palmer should be left alone.

originally posted by: In4ormant
Palmer said he was told by his guide it was all legal. If so, Palmer should be left alone.

If course he is going to say that. He not going to admit he may have committed a crime.

Extradite him and let him stand trial and let the lawyers work out if he was innocent or not.

a reply to: In4ormant

Palmer would say Aliens did it if he thought it would get him off , the pleading ignorance excuse seems suspect to me given as he is an experienced hunter well known in the hunting community.
Let us not forget he has a previous conviction for shooting where he shouldn't , that in itself isn't proof of anything but it may be an indication of his attitude toward the rules of the game.

As time goes on more will become known but for now the witch hunt needs to stop and extradition proceeding need to start.