For all my pretension of intellect, I am stumped. Assistance would be welcome.

a reply to: txjab512

Yes, I am cynical, in that I distrust the motivations of the powerful, and only trust those as lowly as myself to be even remotely honest about themselves. I am cynical, in that I can turn a terrible event into a one liner that will bring forth gales of laughter.

It's not a bad thing, when intelligently directed. Hell, I am not Alex Jones or anything!

a reply to: TrueBrit

Laughs! It'll come when you least expect it. That's what happened for me. Wrote everyone off. Gave up. And found the perfect woman. She's ten years my younger. Listens to totally different music. Her childhood was vastly different from mine. I have 2 sons. She has no kids. But for some odd reason we connected. And we couldn't be happier. Just keep doing your thing.

You characterize yourself as "greedy" if you want a partner in love. Why is that? We all have the potential to have a fully reciprocated, loving relationship with another person if we set our sights on it and act accordingly (i.e. being loving and honest ourselves).

I wonder whether your use of this word subconsciously expresses that you somehow don't deserve love. I hope that's not true.

a reply to: RoyBatty

I only used that word because a more appropriate one was not immediately within my grasp. I suppose another way of wording it, would be to say that feeling lonely makes me feel as if I am undervaluing the people who are in my life, and who love me, and are loved in return.

I feel as though what I have should be enough, but it is not. Do you understand where I am coming from here?

Keep talking... I am diagnosing you

a reply to: Layaly

Diagnosing me?

With what?

a reply to: TrueBrit

I do understand that, but the fact that you're feeling this way leads me to believe that you really do value them. You seem worried about this, which means you're a caring person who doesn't want to shortchange his loved ones. That you want *more* or something else is completely natural. Don't beat yourself up for it

If you think you need another to make you feel 'whole', you're perhaps not as "intelligent" as you've seemingly come to believe yourself to be.

a reply to: AlexJowls

I am whole.

I am also lonely. When I suggest that I possess intelligence, I say so because that has been the overwhelming opinion of most of the people I have met and interacted with over the course of my life. I do not believe that a wish to share my life with someone in a romantic sense is a marker of stupidity... Would you care to explain why you take the position you have adopted on this matter?

In reading the OP, I reflected upon all the men I know that repeatedly get stuck in the friend zone by women. Most of them are good looking, witty, kind, interesting fellows! It just doesn't seem rational that they are not snatched up quickly- but even I will consider them as friend material only- even if I was single.

So I asked myself- on the most basic level, what is it that makes them potential friends and not lovers?
What is that essential "thing" that makes tips the scale to the friend zone?

But first of all, I feel like saying- there's no reason to try hard to be so "enlightened" and claim that "all you need is within" ....though that is more often my style, and I feel it has a certain truth to it. On the other hand, we have the right to just acknowledge basic down to earth needs for a mate and partner. We're currently incarnated, and the flesh has certain needs and urges for affection, sex, emotional intimacy of varied types!

Being enlightened and wise is sometimes just a habile intellect weaving rationalisations and justifications for things it feels powerless to change, in order to adapt and embrace them as they are.
God knows mine has been great at that in the past, and it has allowed me a long period of internal peace and external powerlessness.....The emotional waters stilled by the soothing explanations of the mind, endlessly jabbering on about how "all is as it should be because..."



So this is the "thing" that stepped forward in response to my question on the male friends.
They are ALL good at that. They are not greedy, or egotistical, close minded nor strongly opinionated; they are altruistic, compassionate, and sometimes even self sacrificing for the underdogs or in order to battle those perceived as unjust or abusive of power. They are flexible, kind and forgiving.
They are that which most women CLAIM they want in a man... and yet somehow leave in the friend zone all the time.
The guys that complain of this incongruity are not without reason!


I'll tell you what I came up with on this, in my own self analysis-
Women describe the ideal man as that which they would like to be, not that which they would like to be in relationship with, as a contrast and compliment. A pairing or romantic sort is an entity of it's own, a "we" which has it's contrasting creative energies that work together.

The Yin and Yang need to be present, and it isn't just about physical gender or sex, but in characteristics.
Powerful and powerless.... excitement and peace.
Action and stillness......separation and integration.

Be powerless, it will pull the other to be powerful, and vice versa.
The powerful one will have no peace, the powerless will eventually be resentful and distrustful.

People are often drawn to power - either taking it for themselves, or instead, to just remain close to someone who has it.
In our anglo culture, it is more traditional for women to seek closeness to another in power, so that they can remain the contrasting "good", "nice" and "peaceful" one. But it can go either way.
The "nice" one will often, in the long run, end up the bitter, resentful, distrusting, and possibly abused one in relationships- their belief that "power corrupts" will be validated eventually. Because it is true, being in a position of power over a long period of time does go into an extreme and degenerate. But so does the other role, which if sustained a long time, becomes victimization, covert manipulation, passive aggressivity....



People can tell when someone is adverse or repulsed by taking power themselves, and that tells them- in a relationship, I'll end up corrupt and stressed over time if involved with them. That is the moment the scale tips into FZ.

The only long term solution to this problem that my mate and I found is to be consciously embracing either role, and facilitating each ones needs to move in or out of it. Being willing to step up and be the power with the reins of the buggy, (with all the responsibility, accountability, excitement and stress that comes with it)
or being willing to sit in the back, relax, and trust the other with that role (with all the moral self rightiousness, peace ,connection with all, and individual frustration that goes with that).

Each time remembering life is just a stage, and we are merely players!

a reply to: TrueBrit

If you want something specific to eat, you go certain restaurants or grocery stores. If you want a certain tool, you go the a hardware store or the like.... if you want a relationship..... are you ACTIVELY making attempts to find one? Seeking out certain places or people or creating chances for it? If you are just waiting for something to happen to you.... it probably doesn't matter that much to you really. The amount of effort extended might give you a clue as to how much you really desire an outcome.

I'm a very assertive, pro-active person and when I get my sights set on something I go full force. That being said I've learned 2 things over the years:
1. You CAN NOT make 'being in a relationship' a goal. You have no control over anyone but yourself and if you try to MAKE something work it's pretty much bound to end in disaster.
2. Sometimes the best way to pursue something is to sit back and let it come to you.


You can try using the principle of positive attraction....don't say "I want someone." because that will only beget more wanting. You're inner dialogue should be "I am so happy and thankful that a wonderful girl is finding her way into my life right now." You've got to make your inner dialogue positive and current.

P.S. If it makes you feel any better, you are not alone. I am right there in the boat with you! You've pretty much described my life at this point (and the past several years).

a reply to: jaxnmarko

My experiences thus far lead me to believe that proactive availability tends to be a turn off. I have been through all the nonsense involved in dating before, and nothing so gained has lasted. Therefore I have adopted a passive approach to the issue. Essentially, if something happens, great, but there's no way in hell I will ever bust my ass for maybe, or perhaps, or possibly.

I will burn empires and raise new ones for a certain thing, but not for mere potentials. I have wasted enough time and energy on such frivolous pursuits as it is, and seek to do so no longer.

a reply to: TrueBrit

I understand where you are coming from, I think; you compare your situation to those of others around the world and conclude that you are one fortunate person. Hey, just that fact that you own shoes makes you luckier than 300 million people.

Still, there is that little itch where you can't quite reach isn't there? You say you enjoy your own company, and I believe you. Sometimes though, a person longs for another to share their days. I'm going to share a little bit of olde phart wisdom? that I've collected.

I was once in shoes very close to yours. I spent a lot of time alone, and thought perhaps a dog might ease the ache. He did. I spent a lot of time paddling the Great Slave Lake and other bodies of water, both wide and linear, with my dog and a shotgun. I thought I was mostly settled, but missing something. Had lots of friends. One day, when I reemerged back into civilization, I decided to not pursue a relationship. Naw. I was just going to have sex and enjoy it for what it was. I started writing a bit.

I decided I was opposed to seeking out a mate, and figured I would spend the rest of my days helping out others, and occasionally getting laid, not necessarily in that order.

I met my Darlin' and we were friends. Neither of us adhered to the classic linear progression of relationships. It was six months before we even kissed. We were friends. We grew to love each other. Neither of us were looking for a mate.

She is the love of my life. There will never be another more true. We have been married for 25 years and each day is fresh. We disagree, but don't fight. Life is too short. She saved me from myself and my -- what to call it -- destructive tendancies. I am a very lucky man.

I wish the same for you, True, but perhaps like me, you can't go looking for your mate. Perhaps you have to just go through your life with the notion of being open to a new experience, and maybe be mindful of quirks and synchronicities that draw you to this person or that.

Nobody gets out of this alive. You are not greedy. You are human. You hope for a life that makes you want to get up early, just to live more of it. Nothing wrong with that.

All best.

a reply to: TrueBrit

There are those of us that have loving caring life long relationships.

Then there are those of us that get this:



I have good friends but have learnt to enjoy myself with a 6 pack in the cupboard,eventually you no longer miss anything,and on the bright side Im not going to loose half of my stuff.

a reply to: khnum

What use is stuff? What emotional connection do you have with your stuff? Have you ever had a conversation with your stuff which made you tingle from top to toe? Have you ever shared your soul with your stuff? I do not have a great deal of stuff myself, but it is only stuff after all!

a reply to: argentus

Thats a beautiful thing that happened to you argentus, and I have to express my heartiest congratulations in your good fortune.

I appreciate your insights into this area of the human experience a great deal! Thank you so much for sharing them with me, and indeed the thread as a whole!

sounds like you are geting old.
I should know! I need love too!
NO! not you.......... I want a girl friend.
your not a girl are you. no, thought not.
all I have is the love of my dog
gives big toughy kisses, yuck!
but its not the same.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: AlexJowls
I am whole.
I am also lonely.

When I suggest that I possess intelligence, I say so because that has been the overwhelming opinion of most of the people I have met and interacted with over the course of my life.

>said at ATS