Exclusive!! Samuel DuBose Shooting! Second Police officer's body cam angle.Caught Lying SMOKING GUN

a reply to: Shamrock6

If I lie to help my brother who is accused of rape and I'm found guilty I also get thrown in jail. Aiding and abetting gets a person the same sentence as the perpetrator.

Why does a cop get the luxury of lying and nothing happens to him?

a reply to: WeAre0ne

Exactly. It is kind of pointless trying to have a rational discussion with some of these folks. Had Mr. Dubose just followed directions at worst he probably would have just been taken to jail. It is clear as day to me from the video he knows he isn't supposed to be driving and that he is probably going to be arrested. This is why the officer kept asking him pointed questions about his driver's license and ID as he knew Mr. Dubose was BSing him.

The bottom line is that Mr. Dubose would be alive had he not tried to drive off. We can debate whether the officer should have fired or not, but the victim's actions are what created the situation where the officer may have feared for his life.

No one can deny the common factor with all these incidents are victims who resist arrest and escalate a situation.

The officer's perception of threat in the heat of the moment can be different from how a threat looks in rewind on video. Things happen fast. It does not surprise me that Tensing may have thought he was being dragged.

a reply to: symphonyofblase

It got deleted because you need to step back and have a breather before posting.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

You don't teach someone to kill, that is a fallacy. You teach someone how to defend themselves, and the killing is part of a defensive instinct.

In military training it is basically kill or be killed, not just kill. When you drop a 20 year old into a war zone with a gun and he is being fired at, his training kicks in and he uses deadly force to defend himself and his fellow soldiers. The other side becomes the bad guy in his mind, whether that is true or not is inconsequential in the now. Preservation of life, typically your own and those with you, trumps all other logic during a firefight.

So you can't teach someone to kill, and nobody does. You teach someone to use lethal force to defend themselves, and you build an undying loyalty for their brothers in arms that they will use that same lethal force to defend their brothers.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
For being an analyst you're a wee bit off.

It's quite funny you say that because I get it all the time, but only from people who don't have the same abilities as me, so they are blind to the things I see. They usually say it, then regret it later when I show them just how wrong they are.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
Yes the car was moving.

So you agree the car was moving. Then we can also agree the cop was moving with the car. Good.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
The relative height of the body cam through the whole time he's at the window doesn't lend itself to the idea that he was being dragged.

Really? Because at the beginning of the video the camera seems to be the same height as the top of the car....

Then when the car is started, the officer leans down and in (the camera moves downward to the bottom of the driver side window) and reaches in to try to stop him from putting the car in drive or whatever. So maybe you need to study the video once again, because you are completely wrong.

At 1:53 in the video below, you can even see the officer step forward and inward right when the car is started. You can even see the reflection of his leg and knee in the car door, and you can see he bent his knees to lean into the car.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
Sidestepping, shuffling, walking, whatever you want to call it as the car rolled is not being dragged. The car didn't accelerate heavily until after the shot was fired.

So you want people to believe that the officer, while leaning down and into the car window, and most likely bending his knees, in an attempt to stop the suspect from putting the car in drive, and struggling with the suspect, and pulling his gun, he was doing all that while he was "sidestepping" at the same rate as the car was moving?

Sure lol.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
I don't disagree the car was moving.

Good because you can't.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
I do disagree he was being dragged.

That is based on your faulty observation of the "relative height of the body cam through the whole time he's at the window". You erroneously concluded the height of the body cam didn't change. That is the root cause of your faulty observation that he wasn't being dragged.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
I do disagree that he said "stop" twice while being dragged.

The first time he said stop was to order the suspect to stop trying to drive off. He was not being dragged. The second time the officer said stop, with more authority, is right after the car started to move and drive off, as during the time he was being dragged.

You can't disagree with this either, because clearly if you study the background, the car had already started moving.

If you want to get more technical...



At 1:37 in the video above, take note of the grey car parked up the street in front of the suspects car, also take note of the dark spot on the pavement in the middle of the street.

Then at 2:00 when the officer is getting up after being dragged on the ground, take note of the position of the same grey car. Take note of that dark spot on the pavement. The officer is clearly past the dark spot. That is a long way to move in a short time. You think the officer "side stepped" that fast?

Shall we calculate the distance traveled, and match it to the time the gunshot was fired? I would bet you the gunshot was fired about mid way.

How about you study the audio too, which I include in my analysis. The car obviously starts accelerating before the gunshot, you can hear it.

Your only argument is that he wasnt being dragged, and its a weak one, because its based on a faulty observation of the height of the camera. And lack of observation of the officers reflection in the car door with his bent knee. Hard to "sidestep" and hop, when you are leaning in a car, with bent knees, and the car moves that far of a distance, don't you think? Go try it.

a reply to: IslandOfMisfitToys

Because proving somebody intentionally lied as opposed to misremembered something isn't always an easy task.

You know he lied. I know he lied. Proving that he lied as opposed to writing down what he thought he remembered is an entirely different thing.

Despite what TV makes it look like, perjury charges are incredibly difficult to make stick. And it's that way for civilians just as much as it is for cops.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
You know he lied. I know he lied.

What did he lie about??

a reply to: WeAre0ne

How benevolent of you to allow me to not disagree with you!

I'm sorry, I really stopped giving a damn about anything you have to say once you started waving the "I'm an expert and obviously better than you are" card around.

You see what you want to see. You're the "expert" and all.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
How benevolent of you to allow me to not disagree with you!

How am I in any way preventing you from disagreeing with me? Disagree all you want.

That was the most odd reply I've ever read. I think you have a problem.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
I'm sorry, I really stopped giving a damn about anything you have to say once you started waving the "I'm an expert and obviously better than you are" card around.

You see what you want to see. You're the "expert" and all.

Nice cop out. You were just proven wrong, so now you have no argument. Nice.

originally posted by: Chickensalad
a reply to: symphonyofblase

It got deleted because you need to step back and have a breather before posting.

I need to step back and have a breather.....

?

Can you outline what I posted that stipulates that I need a breather?

And why specifically did you decide I need a breather?

a reply to: WeAre0ne

Nah. I don't come to ATS to debate with people who feel compelled to rely on condescension and self-appointed expert status to browbeat others into submission.

You can take that however makes you feel better, guy.

Have a super Friday

Am I wrong or as soon as he put the car in gear and tried to drive off with the officer right there does the car not become a deadly weapon? Even if he would have just ran over his foot he would have been charged with multiple crimes?

a reply to: symphonyofblase

You were extremely rude and condescending and resorted to name calling.

And now we are off topic

I believe that you get a message explaining post removals.

a reply to: Edumakated

He did everything the cop asked him until, he feared the cop was going to hurt him. As it turns out he was right to fear for his well being from the ? cop.

Regardless of his failure to trust the ? cop, what did he do, at anytime that put the cop's life in danger or was a crime worth the death penalty?

The officer's perception of threat in the heat of the moment can be different from how a threat looks in rewind on video. Things happen fast. It does not surprise me that Tensing may have thought he was being dragged.

If you can understand the confusion and fear in what should have been a simple situation, driven to the extreme by a supposed officer of the law. Then you must understand the terror that most have been felt by a man that had no clue as to why this ? man was harrassing him, unless for sport and or to hurt him, and had no control in the matter.

Do a brief mental exercise. Replace the face of this man with the face of your child, brother, father, uncle, anyone you love. If you are honest with yourself, you will see that this ? cop was wrong. An undeserving death of a human being, dead wrong.

It is clear as day to me from the video he knows he isn't supposed to be driving and that he is probably going to be arrested. This is why the officer kept asking him pointed questions about his driver's license and ID as he knew Mr. Dubose was BSing him. 

So arrest him. Don't toy with him and then execute him when he fears his mouse is going to get away. He had his tag number, he had his address and telephone number. How far was he going to get?

His ego and his pride drove his actions. It seems this was a favorite game of his. Drive a mile or two away from campus and harass the local citizens. This was the opportunity he had been dreaming about for years, the one person or incident he needed to make his day. The one person or incident that would allow him to put that notch in his belt. Give him his bragging rights.

I don't care what name you call me. I don't care at what volume you do it. Even if you sneak into my home and steal from me, and every fiber of my being tells me it was you or even if a video camera proves it was you, it does not give me the right to take your life. We all behave badly at times. We do and say stupid things. That does not give anyone the right to kill you. Especially if that person is supposed to be an officer of the law. A person that is supposed to be smarter, braver, and legally bound.

You can make speculations, conjectures and apologies, but you can make no rationale argument that says otherwise.

a reply to: Shamrock6

I don't rely on condescension and status. I rely on facts, and evidence. I hold in my possession a flawlessly stabilized version of the video we are discussing, and have studied it with utmost precision. Do you hold the same? Most likely not.

Until you learn how to take a video from YouTube, stabilize the video in After Effects or any other motion tracking software, and utilizing multi point motion tracking and or 3D camera solving and camera path inversion, and do so with very little to no tracking point flaws even when a camera loses sight of tracking points, or when the camera gets distorted because of motion blur, then you can come back and cry about not being an expert.

Believe it or not, experts exist. I am one of them. You are not one of them. You didn't stabilize the video and look at it, clearly, and you clearly made faulty observations.

Now you are going off topic and crying because you obviously have no real argument. That's a cop out.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
He did everything the cop asked him until, he feared the cop was going to hurt him. As it turns out he was right to fear for his well being from the ? cop.

No, he did everything right until he figured the cop was going to arrest him. People know that any time a cop asks you to "step out of the vehicle", or asks you to "take your seatbelt off" and starts to open your door, you are most likely being arrested.

He was resisting arrest. Clear as day.

a reply to: Chickensalad

Ah yes, you're right.


So why don't we get back on to topic, which involved me calling out the user "lovebeck".

Like I have already said, Dubose had a clearly UNOPENED bottle of Barton GIN.
A simple google search will collaborate names and labels.
Tensing clearly did NOT smell it. However he did place it on top of the car.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

You can't possibly be serious. So now Mr. Dubose is a mind reader and surmised that Officer Tensing was going to hurt him thus is the reason for Mr. Dubose trying to drive off? GTFOH with that nonsense.

originally posted by: EverydayInVA
Am I wrong or as soon as he put the car in gear and tried to drive off with the officer right there does the car not become a deadly weapon? Even if he would have just ran over his foot he would have been charged with multiple crimes?

Correct. Why that is such a hard concept for people to understand is beyond me.