Give Jobs to Humans or Robots?

Hello I noticed alot of talk in regards to federal minimum wage being increased. I am making this thread to bring too light the behavioral implications from a corporations point of view too an increase in minimum wages. I just graduated from CSUF with a BA in Economics and in my Behavioral Economics class I did a presentation on this topic!

Ideally this would work out for consumers, it only has positive implications. As for the Employer and corporations, they are left with the opportunity cost of paying all their employees a significant increase in wages or search for ways to eliminate this cost increase.

So they did just that before there was a cost increase.
McDonalds run by ROBOTS!

We live in an age were our intelligence make our lives easier. We have done such a good job at being efficient that we have made it so a select few are needed to provide for so many more. This can be done by corporations automatizing their production. Only negative to this is it leaves consumers without a job.

It has been happening for decades now slow at first but now its getting out of control. Robots are taking your jobs because its the efficient thing to do and that is ok because we want to make our lives easier?

So then what happens to the consumer when they are no longer allowed to build an income from the corporations?

Will we become so efficient at automatizing our current jobs that we will become a society 100% run by robots? if so then whats the purpose of humans at that point?

Or is this our future?!?


So in short

A minimum wage increase wont work, because it will push corporations towards automation and then people will be out of a job completely.

But what might work is taxing corporations relative to the level of automation within their business. This would compensate for the decrease in consumer and increase Government spending and with an increase in government spending social programs can be created to cater to the people providing the people with FREE Housing, Health Care, Food, and Transportation necessities for a high standard of living.

If you have a better idea then lets hear it*

If robots take over all the jobs then everything will have to be free because no will have money to buy anything. Sounds like a great idea to me.

The transport sector will be one of the first to be taken over by robots, no limits on driving hours and none of the costs of drivers. If I remember right about 40% of a transport firms costs are for drivers. Lorry's working 24/7 if robots are used.

So if you were to Vote to make the necessary changes for a society run by robots what would you vote so that your tax money is spent wisely?

For every minimum wage employee replaced by a robot at mcDonalds there will be 10 high paying jobs to build that robot. Our goal should be to make sure Americans build these robots.

In my opinion we have two choices:

Raise minimum wage and become more protectionist in our trade and job markets. There is no way we can compete with Vietnam at .57 cents an hour. And we shouldn't pay welfare to someone who works 40 hours. That's subsidizing Walmart instead of the most vulnerable.

Or

Allow business to exploit markets in Mexico and Korea, but raise taxes on those that make over $1 million per. While closing loopholes that allow US profits to be hidden offshore.
Corporations get the majority of subsidies and benefit most from our infrastructure.

Or dip into the $1trillion per year defense budget.. Lol

originally posted by: HighFive
For every minimum wage employee replaced by a robot at mcDonalds there will be 10 high paying jobs to build that robot. Our goal should be to make sure Americans build these robots.

In my opinion we have two choices:

Raise minimum wage and become more protectionist in our trade and job markets. There is no way we can compete with Vietnam at .57 cents an hour. And we shouldn't pay welfare to someone who works 40 hours. That's subsidizing Walmart instead of the most vulnerable.

Or

Allow business to exploit markets in Mexico and Korea, but raise taxes on those that make over $1 million per. While closing loopholes that allow US profits to be hidden offshore.
Corporations get the majority of subsidies and benefit most from our infrastructure.

Or dip into the $1trillion per year defense budget.. Lol

Robots will build themselves, as well as design new types

a reply to: HighFive

I would send 2 mechanics to a MCdonalbot store...

each store should have roughly 30 employees. So you saved yourself 28 biweekly checks.

and machines make machines now so automation. cant be avoided really.

I agree we cant compete with Vietnam

So then we have to depend on Government spending. I think by giving government more money it will create a demand for the government to do what it needs to do and prevent them from doing what they want to do. (may help shine light on ways to lower defense budget)

The question shouldn't even be asked, it's the evolutionary path that humans have taken long ago that is unfolding right before our eyes. Asking the question is proof that the problem is not understood.

a reply to: Sagitaris

I'd get a job repairing broken robots and would stop worrying about minimum wage jobs.

a reply to: gosseyn

I only ask the questions so people can read it and ask themselves the same question.

a reply to: beezzer

robots make robots

then robots can repair robots...

or you can be that guy the picks up a bad robots and replaces it!! nvm that would be automated too. you coouuld pretend to be a robot

originally posted by: Sagitaris
a reply to: beezzer

robots make robots

then robots can repair robots...

or you can be that guy the picks up a bad robots and replaces it!! nvm that would be automated too. you coouuld pretend to be a robot

Robots will go to the store and make the repairs?

lolz

Then repair the robots that go to the stores to repair the robots.

a reply to: Sagitaris

It is a fascinating subject for sure.

Literally every work function performed by a human could be done by robots and AI.

They can even build more of themselves. AI could even become drone pilots.

The humans would be thrust into a new kind of existence where work as such did not exist. We could eventually become null and void.

The only other kind of things we do are entertainment related and meeting our daily needs.

I think we are still quite a way from this, but the next 100 years and beyond are going to be mighty interesting.

Should we just exist for hedonism? How long before we got bored of living like that?

Fascinating.

a reply to: beezzer

plug in a broken robot see where it malfunctions then repair it.

a reply to: Revolution9

So what is the next step now?

what would we need to vote in to achieve a life were robots took over our jobs?

originally posted by: Sagitaris
a reply to: Revolution9

So what is the next step now?

what would we need to vote in to achieve a life were robots took over our jobs?

Lol. Well first I think we need to work out quantum computing. We need that speed and vastness that it or something similar can offer. We need to be able to artificially fire neurons the speed of the human brain and in the same complexity. We would need to devise code that can produce the same stimulation on the human brain as our senses currently do that our minds can understand. Neurons are I think the next big step in code.

Hmmm, what's next on the shopping list? We need some way we can merge with the digital universe we are creating. The Matrix is old hat dial up wire technology. Now wi fi implants that feed to neural ports is perhaps the answer. Imagine the neural code being fed wirelessly into our minds that produces synthetically the information in the same complexity as our senses. Matrix here we come.

I really do think these things could happen. We are only at the very beginning of all this. Money, work as we know it and even things like traditional human conception will change. It is as big as the human and the machine imagination. That is as big as the universe and bigger. We may be on the verge of inventing a whole new dimension, constructed by us and AI.

Wow!!!

Or... we might just get really pissed off and say this, lol, and demand that the robot President address this enormous social issue!:

a reply to: Sagitaris

Most humans will always have jobs.

1 robot =

People to design it, market it, make the parts, put it together, test it, ship it, cost it, invoice it, install it, program it, run it, service it, upgrade it, etc etc.

It may save money for a manufacturer, but it also creates jobs in the process.

What we need to concentrate on is what the robots are used for and worry less about percieved redundancy. Take one person from the list above and there is no robot.

a reply to: Sagitaris

The easier the job, the sooner it will be automated, that's simply the reality of the world these days. I think it's a poor idea to try and cling to the notion that everyone is going to be required to work 40 hours per week to get by. The sooner we accept that, the sooner we can lower the work week. We may possibly even need an entirely new economic system where a person can afford the basics without work, but working then allows you to purchase much more.

Taxing automation doesn't seem to me like it will work. The entire point of such a tax would be to make automation more expensive than a person. Even if taxes could raise sufficiently high to do such a thing it artificially caps that persons wage, as they stop being marketable as soon as they cost more than the tax.

originally posted by: HighFive
For every minimum wage employee replaced by a robot at mcDonalds there will be 10 high paying jobs to build that robot. Our goal should be to make sure Americans build these robots.

In my opinion we have two choices:

Raise minimum wage and become more protectionist in our trade and job markets. There is no way we can compete with Vietnam at .57 cents an hour. And we shouldn't pay welfare to someone who works 40 hours. That's subsidizing Walmart instead of the most vulnerable.

Or

Allow business to exploit markets in Mexico and Korea, but raise taxes on those that make over $1 million per. While closing loopholes that allow US profits to be hidden offshore.
Corporations get the majority of subsidies and benefit most from our infrastructure.

Or dip into the $1trillion per year defense budget.. Lol

No, there won't be that many. There's 3.5 million fast food workers in the US. That's 3.5 million robots (actually, lets triple it and say three robots per person). So we're looking at 10.5 million robots being made. Lets say there's numerous companies and each produces 150,000 robots. That's 70 companies. Each company will need a hardware team of probably 5-6 engineers, 2 programmers, 2-3 testers, a project lead, and 3-4 misc administrative roles so we're looking at 15 people. 15*70 companies is 1050 jobs. So we drop from 3.5 million to just over 1000. You'll get some repairmen too but not as many, and not as highly paid, maybe 1 person per 1000. So now you're at 1200 jobs. There's travel costs as the robots are delivered but that's a one time cost.

There will not be a lot of highly paid jobs from automating these positions.

Being protectionist would be nice, but it's never going to happen. Companies love exploiting cheap labor and they donate heavily to politicians to let such practices take place. The only way to change this, would be for the citizens to have their own lobbying group that can outspend the corporations.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Sagitaris

I'd get a job repairing broken robots and would stop worrying about minimum wage jobs.

Repairing robots is very close to a minimum wage profession already.

originally posted by: nerbot
a reply to: Sagitaris

Most humans will always have jobs.

1 robot =

People to design it, market it, make the parts, put it together, test it, ship it, cost it, invoice it, install it, program it, run it, service it, upgrade it, etc etc.

It may save money for a manufacturer, but it also creates jobs in the process.

What we need to concentrate on is what the robots are used for and worry less about percieved redundancy. Take one person from the list above and there is no robot.

If the robots are saving money for the manufacturer then doesn't it stand to reason that all of the people you just listed cost less than the humans being replaced? That's a net decrease in wages.