Channel Tunnel: '2,000 migrants' tried to enter

a reply to: ForteanOrg

It's not on us to educate the masses from another country. God knows there are enough problems trying to get our own young educated.

If they want to come and study, then they should apply like everyone else does from outside the EU. Not sneak in and get the State to pay for them while also bearing the burden of housing, feeding and clothing them as well.

I'm not sure why you think we should bend over for them - where does it stop?

What we are seeing is a precursor to a growing migration problem. Right now it is not a problem, it is an issue, but it is going to become a problem over the decades as environments undergo changes through long-term climate disruption. Once that kicks in proper, once water really does become scarce, whole nations are going to be on the move, and as countries start to protect their water resources, migrants will be shot on sight.

Why can't Britain allow these migrants in? There are a number of reasons. Once a country starts to allow migrants in, more will follow in their wake. Countries cannot say that they will only allow in 'x' amount of migrants, you'll still have more migrants turning up and queuing up expecting the same allowance of entry. As harsh as it looks, it is imperative to discourage these migrants, not encourage them with a humanitarian touch. Secondly, they are mostly economic migrants, and they do not have the same status as asylum seekers. The migrants at Calais have travelled through Europe and are seeking to enter the UK by whatever means, and it is illegal! Britain has no obligation to any migrant whatsoever, neither has any European country.

The problems these migrants are running from are problems they should sort out in their country, even if it means them dying in the process. All European countries and Britain underwent this development. America also went through this process, firstly with Britain, and then with itself. You stay and fight to make the country you want.

Personally, the French need to forcibly round up all the migrants, put them on planes and boats, and dump them back on the shores of Libya. Other European countries can help them do this...it can be Dunkirk in reverse.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: paraphi

3rd option, keep the border closed and remind them that they are in a safe country.
The UK has absolutely no internationally legal responsibility to assist these people in any way.
It is a problem for France, not us.

And let's not forget that France doesn't want them either, it is why the police there just let them go when they try storming the border. France would probably love it if they all got through the tunnel and left Calais.

4th option. Send them all to those empty ghost cities in China. Plenty of room there don't ya think? Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

I'm not feeling the love for shooting folk who are trying to enter the UK illegally, unless the attending police officers have reason to believe that it is the only option of course.
Tazing, pepper spray, batons, and an overwhelmingly large UK force at the border? Yes, every time.
Shooting dead is too much for me when we have other options to protect the UK border.
It is, and should, remain a last resort in my opinion.

Yes things can go too far. There is no need for anything so drastic when we have the resources to completely close the borders to fake people in need if the political will is there. Those that are trying it on, well if I was dirt poor from a failed state then maybe I'd do the same and try to go and break into the lands of prosperity. It's sort of what we did 100 years ago in Europe when we invaded the USA and Aus and SA.

Unfortunately we can't take them all and by letting them in will only encourage more. Looking at population growth in the third world we are looking at more of this in the future so an example must be set if we want to maintain our way of life. Certainly preventing more muslims coming in is a good step as that will prevent a time bomb that will erupt at some point that happens in all countries when the Islamics get to over 33% of the population. Do note that I'm in no way suggesting some Nazi type removal of our current Muslim population. Rightly or wrongly they were encouraged to move here post WW2 by the government to keep our textile industry going, they were wanted, fought for the Empire and were needed at the time. They are British and were invited in. A total difference from these new thieves trying to break into our country.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Agreed.
If the message is the UK will let them in then many more will follow, and while English is the second language for so many people in the world that could mean many many thousands wanting to make the journey.
If someone is genuinely fleeing oppression and have a case for asylum then they must claim it at the first safe country they reach.

The people in Calais right now make me think of a homeless person being offered a home in say Glasgow but they refuse it because they would prefer to be housed in Newquay.
They are all in a safe nation right now, and all they need to do is claim asylum in France to get similar assistance as they would in the UK as an asylum seeker.

They refuse. Their choice to live in a shanty camp.
The UK has no obligation to do anything other than defend our border lawfully.
I support the current UK government stance, and until/unless the international conventions on refugees are changed there is no requirement for the UK to take any non-EU migrants from any other safe EU nation.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

Yes, that's roughly what I think should happen. These people want to come to the UK - let them. If they want to come to my country - let them. After all, we created their problem, willingly and knowingly. It's only fair they come here and try to have "nicer lifes". What do you suggest we do, shoot them out of the waters? Isn't that exactly what we try to ban - that type of barbarism?

Who pays for it?

Someone has to fed,cloth,house and educate them?

Our schools are full, our hospitals are overloaded and we dont have any houses.

Are we meant to sacrifice our 1st world status and become a # hole like the country they are fleeing for them?

a reply to: crazyewok

I think ForteanOrg is just secretly jealous that we still have control of our border.
I hope he continues to dictate what the UK should do because such opinions only draw more people away from wanting to be part of the EU.
Referendum next year and all that, the more rabid pro-EU views posted online the better I say, hopefully it will encourage more people to vote out of that failed institution.

originally posted by: grainofsandI think ForteanOrg is just secretly jealous that we still have control of our border.

- yes, that must be it!

But really - you haven't all that much control over your borders either. Sure, official checkpoints are hoarding impressive arrays of even more impressing machines, manned by impressive officials that stare at you impressively. But not so in the many, many smaller ports all along the coast of England. And if we don't give them an alternative, these refugees will try other means to get to their "promised land": stealing boats, rafts etc. - heck, some might even try to swim. Some will drown, others will make it and that message will spread like wildfire. More will follow.

Now, you can say "what do I care if they drown, I did not force them to come here" (populism at its best) - but British companies that do business with the rest of the world do care. And they will use full force to do what they always do: influence politics, demand a solution. Then you'd end up having spent the money for more border control AND having spent money to find a soluton that you just as well might think out now - and save yourself a bit, if that's really what is important to you.

To me, these are just people. I think we should try to make them part of our culture, let them join their families. In the meantime, we need to find a more permanent solution: we need to stop these evergrowing waves of migrants by helping stabilize the situation in the countries they came from. And if it's safe, we should help those that want to go back to do so - now used to a higher physical and moral standard they might become the cornerstones of their society and will remember how they were treated.

I hope he continues to dictate what the UK should do because such opinions only draw more people away from wanting to be part of the EU.

Well, again: you and I aren't exactly running our countries, are we? So, it's quite irrelevant what we think. But we might try to influence our political leaders, of course. Write articles, distribute flyers, post on blogs, ring at doors, have a petition, stuff like that. And perhaps we can educate a few of our own - folks like you, whom think that more police, more soldiers, more guards and more power to the government is the way to go.

Referendum next year and all that, the more rabid pro-EU views posted online the better I say, hopefully it will encourage more people to vote out of that failed institution.

Or they will read it and ask themselves a simple question: "If it was happening to me, how would I like to be treated?" - we're just all human beings after all.

a reply to: elysiumfire

Except Libya was fine, they weren't leaving their country when Qaddafi was still around. So Britain, France and other country's all agreed with supporting rebels/terrorists to get rid of Qadaffi.. so they are responsible that country is now a mess where they are willing to loose their lives when boarding those boats which are in a bad state where many loose their lives trying to get to Europe.
Libya also had a good water system, bringing enough water in that desert for everyone, all of that destroyed as well but
just look at these pictures:
www.google.nl... %25252F%25252Fwww.activistpost.com%25252F2011%25252F10%25252Flibya-before-and-after-image-shows-what.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=sUB3ykPNZUDhBM%253A%252CJ X5kOmxz5DnIDM%252C_&usg=__U25zd9aaNiHpUuW4Fj3oGPjuv_A%3D&ved=0CCwQyjdqFQoTCLqi7tHyh8cCFYxvFAodNYIGTQ&ei=9Ly8VbrYJYzfUbWEmugE#tbm=isch&q=libya+before+a nd+after

Same story basically for Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan again the west supporting rebels/terrorists or starting wars and now they complain about all those people trying to get to Europe?
Well in basic I agree with you but people from those country's coming to Europe we should accept since it's our own fault. And the ones who supported the wars or funding rebels/terrorists most should accept the most!
And the US should accept many people as well and send many boats, they are the main responsible imo.

And the most frustrating part for me at least is; WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE!??? we just let our governments doing such horrible things and they get away with it every time... even when proven they where horrible wrong and the cause of SO MUCH SUFFERING!!!

a reply to: ForteanOrg

Interesting opinion, but like it or not, the UK government policy is to protect the border and deny entry to people who wish to leave a safe place such as France.
I support that, and I am unaware of any strong support in this country for us to take those migrants who are currently in other safe EU nations. Not even on the overly emotional medium of facebook.

You may just have to accept that there is little support in Britain for us to take these migrants, and your whining is not going to change any of that.
The migrants are in a safe country and the UK is not required to take them from that safe country.
Unlucky fella, take it up with the UN or Brussells if you really want to bleat about it.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: crazyewok

I think ForteanOrg is just secretly jealous that we still have control of our border.

Well that theory doesn't hold any weight, since I agree with everything ForteanOrg says and us Aussies have 10x more control over our borders than the pome's.

Could it be that he's just a decent human being, who's actually capable of basic empathy for his fellow human?

Fact is, we all bleed the same red blood and everyone deserves a decent quality of life.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Go and whine to the UN then.
The UK is meeting all its international obligations.
The migrants in France are in a safe nation so if they want to claim asylum there they will have similar assistance provided to them as they would in the UK.

By choosing not to claim asylum in France they are choosing to live in a shanty camp.
Cry your tears all you like, I couldn't give a toss, and I'm unaware of any strong support in the UK for us to take these migrants from a safe country.

As long as most people in the UK think the same way then the government will continue protecting the border.
That pleases me.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: crazyewok

I think ForteanOrg is just secretly jealous that we still have control of our border.

Well that theory doesn't hold any weight, since I agree with everything ForteanOrg says and us Aussies have 10x more control over our borders than the pome's.

Could it be that he's just a decent human being, who's actually capable of basic empathy for his fellow human?

Fact is, we all bleed the same red blood and everyone deserves a decent quality of life.

And you and him fail to answer the im[important questions?

Were do you house them when all the homes are full? (UK has a housing crisis)

Who gives them medical care when all the hospitals are overloading?

Who gives theme education when the schools are full?

Who gives them jobs when we are only just getting enough jobs for the people here?

Who gives these people criminal background checks when most are on fake ID's?

originally posted by: crazyewok
Who pays for it?

Is it relevant? I have seen the demise of banks, that were "too big to fail". It has cost the public millions and millions, but they were never asked if they wanted to pay for these institutions gruesome theft and misbehaviour. The money was suddenly there, somehow, though just before that there wasn't even enough to keep the population housed and healthy...

Likewise, if the government decides this problem needs to be solved, money will not be the problem. The question also is: on what do you spend it? Do you give it to the border forces, police, the military - or to hospitals, housing facilities and education centres? It'll cost ya, that's for sure.

Someone has to fed,cloth,house and educate them?

Yes, and in my opinion that's something that all EU nations should contribute to. We have a common problem, let's solve it together and share the costs. It may be a bit unjust to more or less subsidize Englands workforce, but heck, if France wants their part of the new workforce and rather see these people learn French than English - the can try to persuade them to stay in France.

Just on a sidenote: I'm a bit puzzled why it seems to be overlooked that this is actually free propaganda for our way of living. These migrants are a very clear and obvious signal that the so called "islamic" state is not all that swell after all. If even die-hard young Muslim men decide they'd rather live in an infidel ruled land somewhere on a foggy, cold island - clearly ISIL isn't very succesful..

Of course, we should never have created a situation in which ISIL could rise anyway, but that's water under the bridge now.

Our schools are full, our hospitals are overloaded and we dont have any houses.

Then get of your lazy British behind and build new ones - the migrants will probably gladly help you!

Are we meant to sacrifice our 1st world status and become a # hole like the country they are fleeing for them?

No, of course not. You make these people part of your "1st world" nation. Ever been in London? Man, it actually is hard to understand people there, for they originate from all nations over the world and speak a form of "English" that makes Cockney sound simple. But the city thrives, nevertheless.

I say again:

The people in Calais right now make me think of a homeless person being offered a home in say Glasgow but they refuse it because they would prefer to be housed in Newquay.

They succeeded in their mission, they fled from oppression and reached a safe country. They are required by international conventions to seek asylum in that safe country because they are no longer fleeing oppression.
If they reach the UK as their first safe country then I welcome them and advocate support for them, but they didn't, they are in France, and being choosy about which safe nation they want to live in.
Ain't gonna happen.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

Is it relevant? I have seen the demise of banks, that were "too big to fail". It has cost the public millions and millions, but they were never asked if they wanted to pay for these institutions gruesome theft and misbehaviour. The money was suddenly there, somehow, though just before that there wasn't even enough to keep the population housed and healthy...

Likewise, if the government decides this problem needs to be solved, money will not be the problem. The question also is: on what do you spend it? Do you give it to the border forces, police, the military - or to hospitals, housing facilities and education centres? It'll cost ya, that's for sure.

See that why the UK is the fastes growing economy in the developed world and the EU is tanking. We in the UK understand money is not infinite.

The banking crash woke us up to that fact.

Hospital and schools cost money and we are only JUST getting money back from the banks.

Plus hospitals and schools take TIME to build, you don't just erect them overnight. Certainly not in time to solve the current problem.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
No, of course not. You make these people part of your "1st world" nation. Ever been in London? Man, it actually is hard to understand people there, for they originate from all nations over the world and speak a form of "English" that makes Cockney sound simple. But the city thrives, nevertheless.

I have no problem with immigration provided it legal, controlled and the people have criminal background checks.

originally posted by: DiddyMcC0y
I actually get sick reading some of the comments, people are running towards hope from despair. And all you do is sit on your fat privileged asses and complain.

They can do it LEGALY.

There are rules behind asylum.

They are choosing to do it ILLEGALLY.

But if are sooooo upset at there plight then please open your home up and sponsor them.

a reply to: DiddyMcC0y

Oh behave with your emotional drivel.
The people in Calais ARE IN A SAFE NATION!
All they have to do is claim asylum there and they will get similar assistance as they would in the UK.
They are NOT fleeing oppression anymore, they are in a safe nation.

Go cry to the UN about the internationally agreed conventions on refugees.
Right now the UK is fulfilling all it's obligations and lawfully defending its border.
...watch you don't stain your shirt with that bleeding heart of yours.

originally posted by: DiddyMcC0y
I actually get sick reading some of the comments, people are running towards hope from despair. And all you do is sit on your fat privileged asses and complain.

I hear ya, and there has to be a way to provide assistance and safety for them. But I'm not sure what they are doing now is the answer. All people have value, and that includes those lives of the people they are taking advantage of, ya know? While we must consider the well being of those seeking asylum, we must also consider the lives of the others.

I wonder if the UK could set up some kind of refugee camp for them to stay until more permanent circumstances can be located? Surely there is a fair solution.